World 2.0/1 Map [Quenched]

DublinDoogey · Post by **DublinDoogey** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:19 am

I'm resisiting the urge to be nitpicky about army numbers in the small map, but if you'd like to see my considerations, you can pm me, otherwise everything's lookin great, 'specially on the large map

gavin_sidhu · Post by **gavin_sidhu** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:34 am

DublinDoogey wrote:I'm resisiting the urge to be nitpicky about army numbers in the small map, but if you'd like to see my considerations, you can pm me, otherwise everything's lookin great, 'specially on the large map

Lol. This map is going to be hard to play on the small map. good luck to the people who will play like that.

reverend_kyle · Post by **reverend_kyle** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:01 am

::raises hand::

Forza AZ · Post by **Forza AZ** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 5:00 am

gavin_sidhu wrote:
DublinDoogey wrote:I'm resisiting the urge to be nitpicky about army numbers in the small map, but if you'd like to see my considerations, you can pm me, otherwise everything's lookin great, 'specially on the large map
Lol. This map is going to be hard to play on the small map. good luck to the people who will play like that.

I think there will be a lot of clicking form small to large map while playing this.

zim · Post by **zim** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 8:55 pm

gavin_sidhu wrote:Dont think you will do much about this, but I still think that some of your bonuses are off.

Changes most needed:
Scandnavia - 3 territories, 2 border territories that border neutral territories (thus not hotly contested) with a bonus of 2? should be a 1, only way to make it a 2 would be for Sweden to border Germany or Poland.

I agree that this is more than a 3/2 continent earns in Classic but I think it's fair relative to the the other continents/sub-continents on the map, i.e. Australia and Central America are also 3/2 +2.

gavin_sidhu wrote:Changes moderately needed:
Maghreb - 9 territories, 5 border countries and bonus of 5? I think it should be pushing for a 6. I guess its okay because it is bordering neutral countries on the east.
Far East - 5 countries, 3 borders, bonus of 4. Africa in Classic has an extra territory and one less bonus. Bit hard because of Indian Subcontinent however.
Middle East - 7 countries, 4 borders, in the middle of everything, but only a bonus of 4? should be pushed to 5, especially if Far East bonus is left alone.

Using my highly scientific

bonus calculator which uses territories, borders, countries that can attack the continent and the number of other sub/full continents a continent borders I get scores of Mahgreb: 4.5, Far East 3.5 and Middle East 3.8. So I think we're aligned on the relative difficulty of the three. That being said I think that as with Scandinavia the import thing is that they are balanced vis a vis the rest of the map. I think they are though I think it's a close call. What I'd like to do on all the bonuses is see how people play and then adjust if we find there are significant balance issues.

gavin_sidhu wrote:Also your North American sub-bonuses are weird, both subcontinents have all territories as borders, which is odd. I suggest you make the Great Lakes larger to block Upper Canada, because that continent is very weird.

I tried a few methods to change the composition of the Canad and US subs to achieve a different border to territory ratio but wasn't able to come up with anything that met both the accuracy and playability tests. My expectation is that trying to hold just Canada or just the US will be a bad strategy. On the surface I think the best NA path will be to build a strong reserve in Central America and then move north along either the west or east coasts with the goal being to capture Canada/US 'together'.

gavin_sidhu wrote:Don't expect any of these changes to be put in place because your so close to finishing, but after staring at the map hoping it would become quenched, the ideas came to me.

No problem I'm starting to second guess things myself

. Anyway I expect there will be things that need tweaking once players have had a chance to evolve strong strategies for this map so these changes may well make World 2.1

Cheers,

Zim

P.S. The 2's works out to Australia 2.00, Scandinavia 1.60 and Central America 2.05 so Scandinavia is the closest to being a one per Gavin's suggestion. I think it's still a marginal 2 but it's closer than I thought when you factor in the value of it's neighbours...

P.P.S. I expect this map will be almost exclusively (80%+) played on Large. Andy, can we check this in the log files after a week or two?

P.P.P.S. Question Reverend Kyle?

Jargo The Axe · Post by **Jargo The Axe** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:14 pm

im not the rev but is it almost done?

p.s. is hawaii part of a continent or just a gateway?

zim · Post by **zim** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:24 pm

Jargo The Axe wrote:im not the rev but is it almost done?

That's ultimately up to Andy; when the map meets his standards and the foundry has had it's say then he'll quench it. I think we're very, very, very, very, very very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very close...

Jargo The Axe wrote:p.s. is hawaii part of a continent or just a gateway?

Hawaii is not part of any sub-continent but is part of the Oceania full continent.

Cheers,

Zim

gavin_sidhu · Post by **gavin_sidhu** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:59 am

zim wrote:Anyway I expect there will be things that need tweaking once players have had a chance to evolve strong strategies for this map so these changes may well make World 2.1

Cheers,

Zim

Sweet, if you do make a World 2.1, you will be the first (that I know of anyway) person who actually cared about evening out the map.

reverend_kyle · Post by **reverend_kyle** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 2:18 am

zim wrote:
P.P.P.S. Question Reverend Kyle?

Was raising hand for someone who will play it on small map.

zim · Post by **zim** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:11 pm

gavin_sidhu wrote:...
Sweet, if you do make a World 2.1, you will be the first (that I know of anyway) person who actually cared about evening out the map.

I'm hoping we got everything perfect on the first go but I doubt it

I'll definitely update if there is room to improve once people have had a chance to discover/learn the optimal strategy.

!

Thanks,

Zim

reverend_kyle · Post by **reverend_kyle** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:25 pm

zim wrote:
gavin_sidhu wrote:...
Sweet, if you do make a World 2.1, you will be the first (that I know of anyway) person who actually cared about evening out the map.

I'm hoping we got everything perfect on the first go but I doubt it I'll definitely update if there is room to improve once people have had a chance to discover/learn the optimal strategy.

!

Thanks,

Zim

That bird is about to die...

Are you saying they should kill the map?

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 11:12 pm

Jargo (and others)....guess what!

(See below!)

I'm going to give it one more day before I quench it.

--Andy

Hoff · Post by **Hoff** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:07 am

i can't wait

reverend_kyle · Post by **reverend_kyle** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:12 am

One more day as in the length of the 2 or 3 days in the final forge stage?

Christmas here I come.

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:32 pm

*crosses fingers*

edit:
lack's on! quench it and let him put it up! *sigh*

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:36 pm

Quenching

The Final Forge period has concluded for the World 2.0 Map. All objections have had their time. The Foundry and I hereby brand this map with the Foundry Brand. Let it be known that this map is now ready for live play (barring any Lack vetoes).

Conquer Club, enjoy!

–Andy

Enigma · Post by **Enigma** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:44 pm

WOOHOO!!! go andy!!
$\:D/$

P Gizzle · Post by **P Gizzle** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:54 pm

so when will it be an option on the start ur own games section?

reverend_kyle · Post by **reverend_kyle** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:56 pm

Whenever lack feels like it.

MRLOLLYPOP · Post by **MRLOLLYPOP** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:00 pm

i can't wait to play this one, looks great

zim · Post by **zim** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:01 pm

Just wanted to give a big thanks to all the people who cheered, jeered, contributed and complained about the map along the way. The feedback definitely made for a better map.

Now to kick all your butts on the map itself...

Cheers,

Zim

AndyDufresne · Post by **AndyDufresne** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:28 pm

I told lack to release it X-mas morning.

--Andy

reverend_kyle · Post by **reverend_kyle** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:32 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:I told lack to release it X-mas morning.

--Andy

NH

tals · Post by **tals** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:01 pm

AndyDufresne wrote:I told lack to release it X-mas morning.

--Andy

With an 8 player option and I might just sneak a game on that day

Tals

Lupo · Post by **Lupo** » Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:52 pm

Zim, could i ask you the very last thing? i had a look at your xml file and i noticed that Norway do not border with Moskva:

<name>Norway</name>
- <borders>
<border>Iceland</border>
<border>Sweden</border>
<border>Finland</border>
</borders>

Could you change it in this way?

<name>Norway</name>
- <borders>
<border>Iceland</border>
<border>Sweden</border>
<border>Finland</border>
<border>Moskva</border>
</borders>

Of course, if you made this change, maybe, you could also take into account the possibility to increase Scandinavian bonus

World 2.0/1 Map [Quenched]

Thanks..