Attach a "cheater" to folks caught cheating

[PLAYER57832]

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Suggestion Idea: Somehow designate folks as cheaters, at least for a period of time

Specifics: Put some kind of tag, indicating that this person was caught cheating on their name or in place of the feedback rating. Could be a big "C" next to their name or used instead of a feedback rating. After a probationary period with no further misconduct, the "C" would be removed. This will limit the number of games they can play, for certain, but that is essentially a "natural" result of cheating. You could go further by awarding anyone who played these cheats extra points -- not a lot, not enough to encourage folks creating multis who will be busted and then give extra points out ... but, a token, say 1, 2 extra points for a win and a deduction of 1,2 points for a loss. These extra points could be taken off the cheater's total to make more justice.

MORE DETAILS:

Currently "freebie" players are just ousted, this would either only apply to paid members or would replace the ousting punishment for cheaters.

I suggest a time limit - maybe a week, but more probably a month for first offenses, longer for second offenses and out .. "permanently" for any third offenses.

Why it is needed: Right now, there is no way to know, outside of spending time in the "cheaters and abuse" forum to know who is a cheater and who isn't. Further, those so-listed are not necessarily confirmed cheaters at all. This way you would know if the accusation was actually verified or not and, would have a way of avoiding these folks.

Because the natural result of this designation is that some folks won't play them, there might have to be a little "honey" added so they do get some games. That is why I suggested the extra point option. I suggest just a couple of points, enough to make the point, but not enough to encourage someone to, say intentionally set up a cheater profile so they can then go and reap points off that "cheater". Since the main reason someone will cheat is to gain points, this seems to be the most painful way to penalize them.

A counter-argument, and why it probably isn't important:
On the other side, some might actually seek out this label as a "fun" thing to do. Though not preventable, the real issue will be what harm to the community. In my scenario, though it is possible such a person may give friends a few points, it should not be enough to matter. It will take a LOT of games for anyone to be able to change rank based on this. The main attraction will be some folks might like being called a cheater .. just like some folks actually like feedback abuse. And this will be a nice way for the rest of us to avoid those yokels as well as the more "true" cheaters.

[Mr Unbeatable]

Sounds like a great idea.

[Sir. Ricco]

I really like that idea. I would also like to add, a “Cheater” could not be the last person to join a game. This people can get out of the game if they want to.

[PLAYER57832]

I like your suggestion ...

Now, I wonder why none of the "official" folks have paid this any mind?

[anibus]

Sure let's attach a nice bright red 'C' to their title for all to see.

Sound familiar to anyone?

[t-o-m]

I really like that idea. I would also like to add, a “Cheater” could not be the last person to join a game. This people can get out of the game if they want to.

but then every1 would check that box, and anyone who cheats wouldn't ever be able to join another game ever again!

[wicked]

ooooh a scarlet C. This has been suggested before, not sure what it was classified as, but you can search.

[firth4eva]

If I knew that by renewing premium I would be labeled cheater, I would just create a new account and upgrade that to premium.

[PLAYER57832]

Concise description:
Mark cheaters -- maybe put a C next to their rating number or name with a clickable link to a listing of cheaters and their aliases
Specifics:
When someone is confirmed and convicted as a cheater, place a mark next to their name or rating number. Click on this and you will go to a list of all the convicted cheaters ... within a given time period. The cheater and the names of all aliases would all be listed.

The mark might last for 1-2 months the first time, 6 months the second ... a year or a permaban if caught 3 or more times.


This will improve the following aspects of the site:
I tried to go into the "cheaters" forum once, but could not really track who was convicted, who was just accused, etc. There was just too much stuff to wade through. This is probably true for most folks.

This means we unknowlingly join games with someone who is a convicted cheater.

Marking the listing that shows when you join games and such would give folks a heads up.

A list would allow folks to see if they are playing a game against several people or a multi.

Another thread suggested a score reset... I absolutely think that is appropriate, but I would also like at least some kind of uniform list that people can check to see if someone is a multi or not.

Suspected multis would not be included. This would ONLY be for CONVICTED multis.

[AndyDufresne]

I know long ago the "Scarlet Letter" idea was suggested, but not much discussion came of it and it died off. See if you can garner some more discussion with this topic. Additionally, it is always good to keep a running post of "Positives" and "Negatives" to the suggestion, so everyone can better keep track of everything.


--Andy

[wcaclimbing]

I supported the idea last time and I will support it again.
YES

[delboy01]

I suggested this as well.

Players should be marked with the offence they committed so that people can either avoid them or if they play them monitor how the game goes.

I would suggest that for first offence a warning is issued and that the mark is implimented for second offense.

As has been said everyone deserves a second chance. Trouble is that many are repeat offenders and they are treated no differently to those who follow the rules and those who offend once.

[The Neon Peon]

I agree with the whole mark thing, but I think it should be implemented from the first time, because other wise people can cheat, see if they get away with it, if not they get a warning and stop. They should be punished upon first offense with at least public knowledge of their cheating.

The only possible neg. that I see is falsely accused users, which can happen, but it's a slim chance.

[Joodoo]

Make a poll PLAYER. It'll express how much the general CC population (that browses the forums) likes the idea.

[delboy01]

Create a list of persons who, having been busted re-purchase premium. This would serve two purposes.

1/ It would inform people of the date somone was busted and that they have re-purchased premium at XXXX date.
2/ It would eliminate re-posts for the same offence. i.e. Player XXXX busted for yyyyy. A second thread is created a few weeks later for this offence as the player still has premium.

It could be added as a list in help.

[PLAYER57832]

Poll added, as requested

[MrBenn]

I still like my suggestion of a 'Cheaters Medal' that will supercede any other medals!

How about changing the colour of somebody's feedback star next to their name to red if they're convicted of cheating? That way it would show up in games as well as in the forums?

[PLAYER57832]

Except that would be confusing since new recruits who are premium are red, too, now.

Maybe they should be Gold, like the regular ranks? and then cheaters can be red?????

[PLAYER57832]

21 votes for, none against, so far.

Official response?

[AndyDufresne]

We know about this suggestion, and will be taking it into account. I suggest some more discussion about it all.

Regarding the specifics,

When someone is confirmed and convicted as a cheater, place a mark next to their name or rating number. Click on this and you will go to a list of all the convicted cheaters ... within a given time period. The cheater and the names of all aliases would all be listed.

Would this just appear next to their rating? What would it look like? Would it appear in the profile? Would the names of those busted with appear in the profile? Would it be a new page that would have to be created?

I'm not sure a list of all convicted cheaters would be feasible, as it would have to be constantly updated, but a mark may perhaps.

There would also have to be some hard coding done by Lack, in case of a Reversal from further investigation, among other coding to be done.

What about a BLOCK instead of a BUST? Does it receive a mark? Does it receive a different mark? Blocks are sometimes used for safety precautions, and don't always necessarily mean Cheating.

The mark might last for 1-2 months the first time, 6 months the second ... a year or a permaban if caught 3 or more times.

The last part goes into site policy, which is a different issue all together (regarding how many strikes a person can get), save that for another topic I believe.

If the mark disappears, is there a history on their profile? Or is it a clean forgiven slate? What if it is too difficult to code a decay for it to disappear after a time?

More discussion. Hopefully those questions will guide some discussion.


--Andy

[PLAYER57832]

We know about this suggestion, and will be taking it into account. I suggest some more discussion about it all.

Thank you!

Regarding the specifics,

When someone is confirmed and convicted as a cheater, place a mark next to their name or rating number. Click on this and you will go to a list of all the convicted cheaters ... within a given time period. The cheater and the names of all aliases would all be listed.

Would this just appear next to their rating? What would it look like? Would it appear in the profile? Would the names of those busted with appear in the profile? Would it be a new page that would have to be created?

These are my thoughts ... (let's hear others..)
I envisioned two things ... either a mark next to the name, that would appear whenever the name appears
eg PLAYER57832 C

I'm not sure a list of all convicted cheaters would be feasible, as it would have to be constantly updated, but a mark may perhaps.

A master list might be in the Abuse forum, as a sticky. The "primary" profile name and the aliases would be listed in a spread-sheet like chart.

The aliases for the person might be placed in their profile, maybe just above the wall or perhaps as a kind of "sticky"/permanent posting to the top of the wall.

There would also have to be some hard coding done by Lack, in case of a Reversal from further investigation, among other coding to be done.

Mistakes can happen, yes. But if they happen frequently, then I would say more care needs to be taken at the front end -- that is in the accusation stage. It might be worth having a delay before putting the "mark" on the name if this is implemented.

What about a BLOCK instead of a BUST? Does it receive a mark? Does it receive a different mark? Blocks are sometimes used for safety precautions, and don't always necessarily mean Cheating.

I am not real clear on how blocks are used or what they entail. I envisioned this for actual cheaters. If someone were "convicted" of the other big no-no's... serious racism, etc. those issues might be worth consideration, but probably would be a seperate issue. They should not have the same color.

The mark might last for 1-2 months the first time, 6 months the second ... a year or a permaban if caught 3 or more times.

The last part goes into site policy, which is a different issue all together (regarding how many strikes a person can get), save that for another topic I believe.

The timing would have to be a site administration issue ... I just put those down for examples.

If the mark disappears, is there a history on their profile? Or is it a clean forgiven slate? What if it is too difficult to code a decay for it to disappear after a time?

I would think it would disappear, except that perhaps the aliases should be somehow marked so that anyone doing a search would know that they are busted multis.
That is, a red "m" or some such attached to the end of their name. However, I don't know if there should be any reference to who the "primary" profile was, if the mark is removed.

More discussion. Hopefully those questions will guide some discussion.


--Andy

[Gutshots]

Good post... this is a no-brainer, which suits me perfectly I might add, but I wont....

[Gutshots]

AND... I think there should be zero tolerance for cheating period! How can we draw more attention to this post!

[The Neon Peon]

I think that their rating star should be a differnet color, to show that they have cheated, or we could have something like mod names: green, hunters: orange, map makers: blue, lack and twill and andy: red, cheaters: ? Which would seriously distinguish them in the forums.

[The Neon Peon]

Why would someone want to mark someone then have it expire? A mistake should be forgiven, but outright cheating should not.