Treasures of Galápagos [Quenched]

[AndyDufresne]

Forza has given the XML the go ahead on this map too! Fingers crossed.




--Andy

[cairnswk]

is it just me or is Espanola's coodinates one pixel too far to the right?
does it need to be moved one pixel to teh left?
sorry to nit-pick
EDIT:
im refering to >this image<

you are correct t-o-m. thanks

Forza has given the XML the go ahead on this map too! Fingers crossed.




--Andy

Thanks Andy.

[t-o-m]

almost there now

ive taken a longer look at the 88's and i cant see any others i dont think.

btw nice penguin!

[Torter_of_Worlds]

Dare I write something or will I be ignored again?

[cairnswk]

Dare I write something or will I be ignored again?

Oh dear. i've missed someone.
R U refering to the post on P12 re bonuses and luggers?

[Torter_of_Worlds]

Yeah, just how obtaining one lugger or fresh water stacks so quickly...

[cairnswk]

Love it.

I like the bonuses...I wouldn't add anymore as suggested - you have more than enough. Adding more would make almost every attack yield more armies as it is currently laid out. A small map doesn't need a lot of bonuses to move quickly (Feudal War perfect example). Having too many bonuses takes away from the skill level required and refocuses the game on the luck aspect of: who can roll the best dice to get the bonus 1 or 2 rounds before the others. Accordingly, I advocate for fewer bonuses.

What's the plan for 1 v. 1 deployment? Start with 2 snorkels?

Regards

The comment below pertains to 1 v. 1 game play only! Please also note I am merely trying to provide constructive feedback

3 snorkels? hmmm; so all a player would need to do is capture one lug and he would obtain a 9 army bonus + 3 for territories next turn? Isn't this a little much for something that could happen so early in the game? Also consider whomever obtains this bonus could camp out one turn on the lug waiting to see if the opponent breaches another lug and possibly run through him. Better yet; if the opponent doesn't breach a lug, the lug owner could wait to attack next turn (or attack more lugs and stack the bonus) and then attack with a hefty stack against one still seeking a +1 treasure or a +4 fresh water (which could be too late...even though this would stack with the number of snorkels too...) which would prove useless within these two rounds alone.

Possibly the lug bonus alone could be its ability to attack all other lugs? Having this ability alone is beneficial.

Freshwater: perhaps instead of saying +4/snorkel; make it +4 flat rate.

More comments to come pending your response

Well, even when there is no set starting positions (as in das schloss) there is going to be now four positions as starters for a 1vs 1 game, given that there are now 9 reefs.

So you are saying that there should be no bonus for having a lugger.

What about:
-1 decay on each snorkel
+3 for snorkel & water
+2 for lugger and snorkel.
+1 for each treasure.

would that suffice?

[Torter_of_Worlds]

I think that would be better and would fit 2 player and 8 player games, but its your call.

[cairnswk]

I think that would be better and would fit 2 player and 8 player games, but its your call.

I can live with that, but i'd like some other opinions also.

What about:
-1 decay on each snorkel
+3 for snorkel & water
+2 for lugger and snorkel.
+1 for each treasure.

[edbeard]

Well, even when there is no set starting positions (as in das schloss) there is going to be now four positions as starters for a 1vs 1 game, given that there are now 9 reefs.

So you are saying that there should be no bonus for having a lugger.

What about:
-1 decay on each snorkel
+3 for snorkel & water
+2 for lugger and snorkel.
+1 for each treasure.

would that suffice?

cairnswk you really need to remember how 1v1s work

It's just like a 3 player game except one player is neutral so there are not 4 starting positions!


Also, couldn't you also keep the lugger bonus for itself but instead of getting multiple bonuses for holding say 3 snorkels and one lugger make it a one to one bonus?

So you only get extra bonuses if you hold 2 luggers and 2 snorkels. or 3 and 3 etc...


I like having the lugger bonuses by themselves because even if I lose my snorkel, I'm not totally out of the game.

[cairnswk]

Well, even when there is no set starting positions (as in das schloss) there is going to be now four positions as starters for a 1vs 1 game, given that there are now 9 reefs.

So you are saying that there should be no bonus for having a lugger.

What about:
-1 decay on each snorkel
+3 for snorkel & water
+2 for lugger and snorkel.
+1 for each treasure.

would that suffice?

cairnswk you really need to remember how 1v1s work

It's just like a 3 player game except one player is neutral so there are not 4 starting positions!

so there will be three...oh dear, i'm getting horribly confused between this and that other schloss starting positions thing.

Also, couldn't you also keep the lugger bonus for itself but instead of getting multiple bonuses for holding say 3 snorkels and one lugger make it a one to one bonus?
So you only get extra bonuses if you hold 2 luggers and 2 snorkels. or 3 and 3 etc...
I like having the lugger bonuses by themselves because even if I lose my snorkel, I'm not totally out of the game.

that's a possibility.
So edbeard...what would be you're list for the bonuses please. how would you write them in the legend?

[Torter_of_Worlds]

Incorporating snorkel into the bonus structure adds to the strategy of the map. You can't go wandering off with a huge army in front or else you run the risk of snorkel death (thus killing your bonus) at the beginning of next turn. I think this adds a unique twist to current strategies out there.

Also, there will be four starting positions for each player in a 1v1. Example: The New World has 9 locations but starts 1v1 players with four homelands (reefs in this case)

[cairnswk]

Incorporating snorkel into the bonus structure adds to the strategy of the map. You can't go wandering off with a huge army in front or else you run the risk of snorkel death (thus killing your bonus) at the beginning of next turn. I think this adds a unique twist to current strategies out there.

Also, there will be four starting positions for each player in a 1v1. Example: The New World has 9 locations but starts 1v1 players with four homelands (reefs in this case)

New worlds has 4 starting positions each because there is starting positions set into the xml code, just like das schloss has.
This map will not have those starting positions, the drop will be random so that you can't tell which starting position you'll get. When this occurs and there is no starting positions stated in the xml, then there is a default third neutral split in the starters, so that in 1vs1, there will only be 3 positions to start on. Confused?
Yes it is. But edbeard is correct about three positions in 1vs1.

[Torter_of_Worlds]

Confused? Not at all - I didn't know it was coded in. Ignorance of how something works isn't confusion...it's ignorance speaking heh

[Torter_of_Worlds]

Quench! I think this will be in my top 3 favorite maps.

Also, for a superior turtle bonus: Make one turtle on map male and other female...if you have both you obtain a +3 instead of +2 because they are mating. Ooo...do for the penguins and lizards too. Mating bonuses - that's what it is about.

It's all about natural selection in the world of Galapagos...

[yeti_c]

Quench! I think this will be in my top 3 favorite maps.

Also, for a superior turtle bonus: Make one turtle on map male and other female...if you have both you obtain a +3 instead of +2 because they are mating. Ooo...do for the penguins and lizards too. Mating bonuses - that's what it is about.

It's all about natural selection in the world of Galapagos...

Hmmm - not a bad idea - could be tricky to differentiate though?

C.

[cairnswk]

Quench! I think this will be in my top 3 favorite maps.

Also, for a superior turtle bonus: Make one turtle on map male and other female...if you have both you obtain a +3 instead of +2 because they are mating. Ooo...do for the penguins and lizards too. Mating bonuses - that's what it is about.

It's all about natural selection in the world of Galapagos...

Goodness, great suggestion but i won't go there at this late stage.

Still to do, change the bonus structure and re-work the legend on the map.

Are you happy with this:

-1 decay on each snorkel
+3 for snorkel & water
+2 for lugger and snorkel.
+1 for each treasure.

[cairnswk]

cairnswk you really need to remember how 1v1s work
It's just like a 3 player game except one player is neutral so there are not 4 starting positions!
Also, couldn't you also keep the lugger bonus for itself but instead of getting multiple bonuses for holding say 3 snorkels and one lugger make it a one to one bonus?
So you only get extra bonuses if you hold 2 luggers and 2 snorkels. or 3 and 3 etc...
I like having the lugger bonuses by themselves because even if I lose my snorkel, I'm not totally out of the game.

OK...the bonuses are between you and Torter_of_Worlds.

At this stage, what's it going to be for bonuses?

[Torter_of_Worlds]

Quench! I think this will be in my top 3 favorite maps.

Also, for a superior turtle bonus: Make one turtle on map male and other female...if you have both you obtain a +3 instead of +2 because they are mating. Ooo...do for the penguins and lizards too. Mating bonuses - that's what it is about.

It's all about natural selection in the world of Galapagos...

Hmmm - not a bad idea - could be tricky to differentiate though?

C.

Graphically it could be done but this is probably inappropriate

[Torter_of_Worlds]

I like edbeard's idea with the one-to-one bonus but my concern is people will start chasing down the fresh water supplies because they would stack - a +2 bonus isn't that much considering one double roll can negate it. However, this could be fixed with a neutral increase on the fresh water supplies and a decrease on the luggers. I like this because it basically means that once you get a lugger it does not entitle you to freely roam the other luggers until you obtain a more substantial bonus or build a couple of rounds.

So lugger bonus: one-to-one, play with the neutral on this. I suggest 4 while increasing the neutral on the fresh water bonus to 7.

[Torter_of_Worlds]

Last question from me: If at the end your turn, one of my snorkels has a 1 on it; would it revert to a neutral 1 at the beginning of my next turn?

Thanks!

[edbeard]

-1 decay on each snorkel
+3 for snorkel & water
+2 for lugger and snorkel.
+1 for each treasure.
+2 for a lugger (maybe +1?)

I took what you wrote above and edited it a bit, but more discussion is needed. Also, this is with the 'one snorkel and one _____ make a bonus not one snorkel and X ____s" (where ____ = water or lugger)


What do people think players first moves will be? How will they react to each other? Will people be eliminated too quickly?

[yeti_c]

cairnswk you really need to remember how 1v1s work
It's just like a 3 player game except one player is neutral so there are not 4 starting positions!
Also, couldn't you also keep the lugger bonus for itself but instead of getting multiple bonuses for holding say 3 snorkels and one lugger make it a one to one bonus?
So you only get extra bonuses if you hold 2 luggers and 2 snorkels. or 3 and 3 etc...
I like having the lugger bonuses by themselves because even if I lose my snorkel, I'm not totally out of the game.

OK...the bonuses are between you and Torter_of_Worlds.

At this stage, what's it going to be for bonuses?

BTW - I've just realised something...

If you play New world on 2 player - each person receives 4 starts - not 3... this is because New Worlds uses the new "starting positions" code... which NEVER assigns a neutral start.

If you use the older style of starting positions (i.e. Fuedal war, AOR) then you will get the standard 2 player game with additional neutral player.

This is an important discovery and shapes how you write the XML for this map I think.

C.

[iancanton]

cairns

this map is one of the nicest-looking, as well as having some of the most interesting gameplay.

i assume that, as on the dust bowl map, the -1 snorkel decay reduces armies down to a minimum of 1 and doesn't actually kill off the last army.

for the bonus structure, i favour keeping the current +4 for snorkel plus water, with +3 for snorkel with at least one lugger (i assume this stacks with the lugger bonus - here, we come across the question of whether, in the absence of explanatory text, bonuses on cc maps are generally understood to stack or, alternatively, override) and either +0 or +1 for having a lugger; luggers already have the special ability to attack other luggers and gain bonuses for more than one snorkel, so +2 for each lugger is excessive.

the male and female bonus is at first glance appropriate to the subject but, with the xml checked and the map virtually ready for quenching, i have to lean toward not introducing something which changes the xml structure so much.

has a decision been made on whether we want 3 or 4 starting positions each in a 2-player game?

rather than "gather" treasures, can u change the text to read "protect" treasures instead? as well as being in line with gameplay (u receive no bonus if u gather the treasures but fail to protect them against attack), i think it's more in tune with environmental awareness.

ian.

[cairnswk]

cairns
this map is one of the nicest-looking, as well as having some of the most interesting gameplay.

Thanks Ian

i assume that, as on the dust bowl map, the -1 snorkel decay reduces armies down to a minimum of 1 and doesn't actually kill off the last army.

yes

for the bonus structure, i favour keeping the current +4 for snorkel plus water, with +3 for snorkel with at least one lugger (i assume this stacks with the lugger bonus - here, we come across the question of whether, in the absence of explanatory text, bonuses on cc maps are generally understood to stack or, alternatively, override) and either +0 or +1 for having a lugger; luggers already have the special ability to attack other luggers and gain bonuses for more than one snorkel, so +2 for each lugger is excessive.

OK i can change that in xml, it's simply a matter of changing bonus amounts on the luggers, which i have done to +1.

the male and female bonus is at first glance appropriate to the subject but, with the xml checked and the map virtually ready for quenching, i have to lean toward not introducing something which changes the xml structure so much.

here here

has a decision been made on whether we want 3 or 4 starting positions each in a 2-player game?

I think going with old style 1(3) vs 1(3) vs 3 neutral will be better.

rather than "gather" treasures, can u change the text to read "protect" treasures instead? as well as being in line with gameplay (u receive no bonus if u gather the treasures but fail to protect them against attack), i think it's more in tune with environmental awareness.
ian.

Done

BTW - I've just realised something...
If you play New world on 2 player - each person receives 4 starts - not 3... this is because New Worlds uses the new "starting positions" code... which NEVER assigns a neutral start.
If you use the older style of starting positions (i.e. Fuedal war, AOR) then you will get the standard 2 player game with additional neutral player.
This is an important discovery and shapes how you write the XML for this map I think.
C.

Newer style Starting Positions have now been removed from the xml giving each player in 1 vs 1 one fewer terts to start on....is this what you wanted?

-1 decay on each snorkel
+3 for snorkel & water
+2 for lugger and snorkel.
+1 for each treasure.
+2 for a lugger (maybe +1?)

I like this...done....replaced in the xml below.

Last question from me: If at the end your turn, one of my snorkels has a 1 on it; would it revert to a neutral 1 at the beginning of my next turn?
Thanks!

No. That is a killer neutral....not going there with this map.
The decay goes as far as 1 and stops.

I like edbeard's idea with the one-to-one bonus but my concern is people will start chasing down the fresh water supplies because they would stack - a +2 bonus isn't that much considering one double roll can negate it. However, this could be fixed with a neutral increase on the fresh water supplies and a decrease on the luggers. I like this because it basically means that once you get a lugger it does not entitle you to freely roam the other luggers until you obtain a more substantial bonus or build a couple of rounds.

So lugger bonus: one-to-one, play with the neutral on this. I suggest 4 while increasing the neutral on the fresh water bonus to 7.

I won't adjust the neutrals on all water terts to 7, as there are formula in place from the reefs - this being 10 armies to conquer to get the water.
However, I will increase that 10 to 12, giving each reef/snorkel an extra two neutrals to conquer.

So here is Version 25.
Small with 88 digits
[bigimg]http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282/cairnswk/galapogas/galapogas_v25ST.jpg[/bigimg]

Large with 88 digits
[bigimg]http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282/cairnswk/galapogas/galapogas_v25LT.jpg[/bigimg]

Small
[bigimg]http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282/cairnswk/galapogas/galapogas_v25S.jpg[/bigimg]

Large
[bigimg]http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s282/cairnswk/galapogas/galapogas_v25L.jpg[/bigimg]

XML:
http://h1.ripway.com/cairnswk/_galapagos_140608.xml