Why does the rest of the world hate America

[Econ2000]

now remind ur self of this Iraq war cost: almost 3000 men dead and billions of dollars

[Econ2000]

welll how would u think if some huge country invaded urs just to "protect" u?

Well, I guess it would depend on what my country was like.

For Example: If i were an Iraqi i would say THANK YOU![/quote]


Oh my goodness, there are many ill-informed posts here, but THAT takes the biscuit![/quote]

correct

[vtmarik]

now remind ur self of this Iraq war cost: almost 3000 men dead and billions of dollars

Not to mention all the dead Iraqis.

If we reverse our perspective and, say, we were being "liberated" by another country against our will wouldn't we fight back? I mean, how do you feel when you're doing something and someone pushes you out of the way to help you when you didn't need it?

[Stopper]

now remind ur self of this Iraq war cost: almost 3000 men dead and billions of dollars

Not to mention all the dead Iraqis.

If we reverse our perspective and, say, we were being "liberated" by another country against our will wouldn't we fight back? I mean, how do you feel when you're doing something and someone pushes you out of the way to help you when you didn't need it?

Yes, eg Eastern European communism collapsed eventually, but it wasn't because the West invaded and occupied them and told them exactly what we think liberty and democracy are, and how to do it - they worked it out for themselves, possibly with some nudging from the West. But no invasions.

Not least because that would have been MADness, but that's another story, possibly where North Korea might be of interest.

[Joe McCarthy]

All Iraqi wars have been about oil somewhere along the line. From England invading Iraq during the first world war, right up to the recent invasion. Let us not forget Saddam had just started selling his oil in Euros and not US$, thats got to piss the yanks off!

We dont give a shit what currency anybody sells their oil in, we just like for them to sell it. And we sure dont invade any countries because they sell their goods in the wrong currency.

Explain the 1991 invasion to me in terms of oil, since apparently you are the one liberal I can find that still claims that one was about oil. You will recall that thats the one where you guys started the "No blood for oil" mantra. What did we gain in oil then? Saddam was selling his oil on the open market before it and we could buy it. After the war, we refused to let him sell the oil. He WANTED to sell it, we didnt let him because he wasnt meeting the conditions of the cease fire and was slaughtering a rebellion in his country. How much of an oil profit did we make by closing the Iraqi oil market for 12 years?

And as for this war, we have yet to receive a single barrel of free or even discounted oil from Iraq. All their oil is sold on the open market, just like everybody elses. We could have let them do that at any time in the last twelve years and been able to but that oil without having to fight a war. How was this one about oil?

Here I'll help you and put your sides' proof that that this war was fought over oil: There is oil in Iraq. The US is run by thieves, and they want that oil money. Ergo, the war in Iraq was for oil.

Your argument is based on a dislike of the US, not on facts. Show the oil profit or stop with the oil crap.

[ksslemp]

Joe, you're just banging your head against a wall.

If they don't think rationally, they won't understand your reasoned argument. You'd have to include a "Conspiracy Theory"?

Or if you could rewrite your argument in the form of a rhyming chant, i'm sure that would help.

[OnlyAmbrose]

All Iraqi wars have been about oil somewhere along the line. From England invading Iraq during the first world war, right up to the recent invasion. Let us not forget Saddam had just started selling his oil in Euros and not US$, thats got to piss the yanks off!

We dont give a shit what currency anybody sells their oil in, we just like for them to sell it. And we sure dont invade any countries because they sell their goods in the wrong currency.

Explain the 1991 invasion to me in terms of oil, since apparently you are the one liberal I can find that still claims that one was about oil. You will recall that thats the one where you guys started the "No blood for oil" mantra. What did we gain in oil then? Saddam was selling his oil on the open market before it and we could buy it. After the war, we refused to let him sell the oil. He WANTED to sell it, we didnt let him because he wasnt meeting the conditions of the cease fire and was slaughtering a rebellion in his country. How much of an oil profit did we make by closing the Iraqi oil market for 12 years?

And as for this war, we have yet to receive a single barrel of free or even discounted oil from Iraq. All their oil is sold on the open market, just like everybody elses. We could have let them do that at any time in the last twelve years and been able to but that oil without having to fight a war. How was this one about oil?

Here I'll help you and put your sides' proof that that this war was fought over oil: There is oil in Iraq. The US is run by thieves, and they want that oil money. Ergo, the war in Iraq was for oil.

Your argument is based on a dislike of the US, not on facts. Show the oil profit or stop with the oil crap.

Perhaps one of the most well-thought-out posts in this thread.... I'm interested in seeing a reply

[vtmarik]

Well, while it's not a war for oil, this war is definitely giving OPEC a little more incentive to restrict and lower production rates in order to manipulate prices. I mean how easy is it for them to say "Oops, you accidentally bombed one of our refineries.... I guess that means $70-a-barrel for you!"

Sure, may not be a war for oil, but it's definitely giving profits to the Oil Cartel.

[Joe McCarthy]

So the war was fought to raise profits for OPEC, and organization that can set prices at whatever they want anyway. I quit being a liberal when I finally got tired of twisting myself up in a pretzel to come up with goofy-assed arguments like that.

[Mirak]

Like most complex issues it is not black & white...

The tensions in the Middle East are not just oil related....but if there was no oil, would anyone care what happened there?... ergo the US would have very little interest, post Cold War, in having any influence in the region.

There would probably be support for Israel but certainly not the totally unconditional support that Israel enjoys at present.

It is also not just about short term profit from oil..rather it is a strategic and long term concern for oil supplies. High oil prices may upset the voters but in reality do not hurt the overall US economy. Look at the record profits the oil companies make when oil prices rise. The US is the largest producer of oil in the world. Higher oil prices also make it possible to exploit oil fields that otherwise would not have been economically viable...for example the rise in oil prices of the 70's made oil exploration in Alaska and The Gulf of Mexico viable

The people that really suffer from high oil prices are the emerging economies of China and India who are the biggest long term economic threat to the US..convenient huh!

The odd conflict in the ME every few years keeps the entire region on edge...allows the US to flex its muscles...test its new weaponry on live targets...showcase its weaponry to a wide audience and sell billions in hardware to the people who are awash in petrodollars because they are nervous of all the tensions in the region...and so on and so on..a viscious circle

In the case of the Kuwait Gulf War the entire campaign was paid for by Saudi Arabia and Kuwait..making a nice dent in their huge cash reserves Who knows but it's possible that the US even made a profit on operations..

[terrafirma]

terrafirma, I'd quit while you're ... ahead. You're doing nothing but making the rest of us intelligent Americans look bad with your ignorance.

Did anyone saying all this crap about the Brits and French getting their asses handed to them by Nazi Germany stop to think that once Hitler was done with Europe, he was coming across the Atlantic to crush Americans? Don't you dare say it wouldn't have happened, because it would have.

Hitler viewed the United States as the weakest link and his plans for us Americans was last in line. Not because he was saving the toughest for last mind you, but because he felt he was saving the WEAKEST for last. Mein Kampf says it all.

American intervention in World War II may have turned the tides in the Allied Forces favor, but it was not such intervention that lead to the ultimate defeat and collapse of Nazi Germany. It was an effort that saw blood shed from every country involved in the fight against tyranny. Every soldier... America, British, French, Soviet, Canadian, etc., deserves to be honored for their sacrifices to make sure YOU can be here today speaking your mind. And not to downtalk them like you're doing now. If my grandfather were alive to hear you speaking of the Europeans like you are, he'd strangle you with the same hands he raised up arms with along side the Brits. It is because of my grandfather and his war stories that I learned to respect every man and woman who laid down their lives during that time.

America was fighting a war on two fronts. The Pacific Theater was the bloodiest foreign campaign ever seen in American history, even more so than Normandy and further ahead in history... Vietnam. The Japanese were cutting down American Marines left and right while in the Atlantic Theater, British, American and Soviet forces were pushing hard into Berlin. American forces were so thin in the Pacific Theater at the time that the Allies agreed to let the Soviets march into Berlin alone so the Americans could recall forces over to the Pacific. After all, Stalin had a hard on for Hitler and the Allies were confident the Soviets could handle it on their own.

Don't badmouth your friends across the pond. They've done more for you than you can imagine.

ok i admit i lied im actually chinese....... I totally agree on wat u said...
hey terrafirma u no how many chinese civilians died in WWII?? at highest 20million! Half of my great-grand parents were among that number. One of my great-grand parents did as much as he could! And guess wat? ur the one sitting on ur butt acting like the US is the best and their the "savior"?

you know that the US didnbt invade china in the 1940s right? and most of thgose civilans were killed by japanese and the rest were killed by the civil war you guys were fighting so do a little research before youa ct likewe fucked up china

[terrafirma]

i am sorry that you grand father had to fight in WW2 but thats not my fault. and for all the heroism and fighting that the europeans did do before we got there was for nothing because nazi tanks were rollin into every capital in europe before the end of 1940. and another thing germany didnt have the capabilities to attack America across an ocean. you know how far he would have gotten if he tried? not even off the beachs. so even if he had a plan to invade america it never would havce happend

[Backglass]

Joe, you're just banging your head against a wall.

If they don't think rationally, they won't understand your reasoned argument. You'd have to include a "Conspiracy Theory"?

Or if you could rewrite your argument in the form of a rhyming chant, i'm sure that would help.

So then.

Why exactly are we in Iraq?

[Stopper]

Joe, you're just banging your head against a wall.

If they don't think rationally, they won't understand your reasoned argument. You'd have to include a "Conspiracy Theory"?

Or if you could rewrite your argument in the form of a rhyming chant, i'm sure that would help.

So then.

Why exactly are we in Iraq?

I've read yards of newsprint on Iraq by now, and I for one still don't really know...I'd give it another 20 years yet, might be a bit clearer then.

[ksslemp]

Joe, you're just banging your head against a wall.

If they don't think rationally, they won't understand your reasoned argument. You'd have to include a "Conspiracy Theory"?

Or if you could rewrite your argument in the form of a rhyming chant, i'm sure that would help.

So then.

Why exactly are we in Iraq?

So i can better answer your question, are you asking why we went to war with Iraq?, or are you asking why are we still in Iraq after winning the war?

[Backglass]

So i can better answer your question, are you asking why we went to war with Iraq?, or are you asking why are we still in Iraq after winning the war?

I would like to know your answer to both questions.

[OnlyAmbrose]

So i can better answer your question, are you asking why we went to war with Iraq?, or are you asking why are we still in Iraq after winning the war?

I would like to know your answer to both questions.

I'll leave the first up to ksslemp, as I already gave my explanation far earlier in this thread and I don't feel like finding or rewriting it

As to the second, the damn country would collapse if we pulled out now, and in the ensuing chaos it would be fairly easy for a radical party to take control and spawn a bigger threat than what was present before we entered. Basically, we don't really have a choice anymore.

[Jolly Roger]

So you're saying that you have to stay in Iraq until they like you?

[OnlyAmbrose]

So you're saying that you have to stay in Iraq until they like you?

I'm saying we have to stay in Iraq until the new government is capable of fending for itself. That includes police, military, etc.

Really, I've never heard ANYONE argue that we should pull out NOW. By all means, I would love it if we did... do you think Americans enjoy having money sucked from our treasury by the billions per week?

[vtmarik]

So the war was fought to raise profits for OPEC, and organization that can set prices at whatever they want anyway. I quit being a liberal when I finally got tired of twisting myself up in a pretzel to come up with goofy-assed arguments like that.

Joe, if you aren't going to actually read the posts, don't bother.

I said that the war was an excuse for OPEC to raise prices, not that the war was to cause OPEC to raise prices.

Someone in this conversation has an extra chromosome and it isn't me.

[Econ2000]

terrafirma, I'd quit while you're ... ahead. You're doing nothing but making the rest of us intelligent Americans look bad with your ignorance.

Did anyone saying all this crap about the Brits and French getting their asses handed to them by Nazi Germany stop to think that once Hitler was done with Europe, he was coming across the Atlantic to crush Americans? Don't you dare say it wouldn't have happened, because it would have.

Hitler viewed the United States as the weakest link and his plans for us Americans was last in line. Not because he was saving the toughest for last mind you, but because he felt he was saving the WEAKEST for last. Mein Kampf says it all.

American intervention in World War II may have turned the tides in the Allied Forces favor, but it was not such intervention that lead to the ultimate defeat and collapse of Nazi Germany. It was an effort that saw blood shed from every country involved in the fight against tyranny. Every soldier... America, British, French, Soviet, Canadian, etc., deserves to be honored for their sacrifices to make sure YOU can be here today speaking your mind. And not to downtalk them like you're doing now. If my grandfather were alive to hear you speaking of the Europeans like you are, he'd strangle you with the same hands he raised up arms with along side the Brits. It is because of my grandfather and his war stories that I learned to respect every man and woman who laid down their lives during that time.

America was fighting a war on two fronts. The Pacific Theater was the bloodiest foreign campaign ever seen in American history, even more so than Normandy and further ahead in history... Vietnam. The Japanese were cutting down American Marines left and right while in the Atlantic Theater, British, American and Soviet forces were pushing hard into Berlin. American forces were so thin in the Pacific Theater at the time that the Allies agreed to let the Soviets march into Berlin alone so the Americans could recall forces over to the Pacific. After all, Stalin had a hard on for Hitler and the Allies were confident the Soviets could handle it on their own.

Don't badmouth your friends across the pond. They've done more for you than you can imagine.

ok i admit i lied im actually chinese....... I totally agree on wat u said...
hey terrafirma u no how many chinese civilians died in WWII?? at highest 20million! Half of my great-grand parents were among that number. One of my great-grand parents did as much as he could! And guess wat? ur the one sitting on ur butt acting like the US is the best and their the "savior"?

you know that the US didnbt invade china in the 1940s right? and most of thgose civilans were killed by japanese and the rest were killed by the civil war you guys were fighting so do a little research before youa ct likewe fucked up china

hmmm i onder who was the one supplying the nationalists with all american weapons? Anyway i belive the USA messed up China by like 5 years

[Joe McCarthy]

Joe, if you aren't going to actually read the posts, don't bother.

I said that the war was an excuse for OPEC to raise prices, not that the war was to cause OPEC to raise prices.

Someone in this conversation has an extra chromosome and it isn't me.

Oh I read it. It looks to me like you are claiming OPEC needs an excuse to raise prices, which they clearly dont as they raise them all the time whenever they like. It also looks like you are claiming that the US went into this war to give OPEC an excuse to raise prices, for whatever evil reason. Now I can understand why that works for you, as its pretty sinister sounding and it keeps oil and money in the mix, but try thinking just a little bit. If you must keep the war about an oil conspiracy surely you can come up with a better story than that.

[Pedronicus]

Getting back on to the topic of this thread.

Heres a new reason.

McDonalds is a shit tasting export.

[vtmarik]

Oh I read it. It looks to me like you are claiming OPEC needs an excuse to raise prices, which they clearly dont as they raise them all the time whenever they like. It also looks like you are claiming that the US went into this war to give OPEC an excuse to raise prices, for whatever evil reason. Now I can understand why that works for you, as its pretty sinister sounding and it keeps oil and money in the mix, but try thinking just a little bit. If you must keep the war about an oil conspiracy surely you can come up with a better story than that.

There comes a point when logic steps aside to allow interpretation to rule all. I see that you are no longer actually reading things and are just kind of making it up as you go along.

At least Jay has his scripture to fall back on but you've got nothing. It's interesting to watch someone take a simple sentence like "OPEC could use the war as an excuse to raise prices" and watch someone twist it into some kind of weird conspiracy theory about how the US is trying to make OPEC raise prices and thus be all sinister and Illuminati-esque.

Let's try to stick to the sentence and not add things into it, ok? If I need my words interpreted or clarified, I'll let you know.

[Joe McCarthy]

Ok, lets take that exact sentence chromosome boy. Its a silly observation, as OPEC can raise prices whenever they want for whatever reason they want and have done so many times.