Logic dictates that there is a God!

Knight of Orient · Post by **Knight of Orient** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:44 am

quote="Knight of Orient"]If the Devil decieves you, you believe there is no God and that science proves it.[/quote]

blackglass replied: I dont believe in gods, devils, witches, leprechauns or fairy's. You think that if you dont believe in a god, you must be aligned with a devil. Well, just like you I dont believe in Mohammed, Buddha, Ganesh or Shiva. I just take it one step further and say I dont believe in your god either.[/quote]

Ok, let me repeat this again. The Devil decieves you=You are on the path to Helll. did not say allies w/satan. blided.

Backglass · Post by **Backglass** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:18 pm

Knight of Orient wrote:Ok, let me repeat this again. The Devil decieves you=You are on the path to Helll. did not say allies w/satan. blided.

Do you also believe in Witches? Angels? Chupacabra? Vampires?

Knight of Orient · Post by **Knight of Orient** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:27 pm

no, i dont.

Backglass · Post by **Backglass** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 12:58 pm

Knight of Orient wrote:no, i dont.

OK...so Angels & Witches are just made up fantasies...but Devils arent?

Knight of Orient · Post by **Knight of Orient** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:13 pm

angels and demons....real.

Backglass · Post by **Backglass** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 1:15 pm

Knight of Orient wrote:angels and demons....real.

OK...so:

Angels & Demons - Real.
Witches & Vampires - Childish fantasies.

Do I have that right?

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 3:58 pm

An eternity of hellish damnation for a single lifetime of sin.

Am I the only one who finds this a teensy bit excessive?

mr. incrediball · Post by **mr. incrediball** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:03 pm

1: wtf is primordial ooze? sorry but i'm only 12...

2: what does a loving thing have in common with a non-living thing?

atoms

so a living thing is made from atoms binded together in a certain way, right?

ye, but how?

well some kind of massive energy could have binded them together right? such as...

the big bang

right, but how did the big bang start?

uh...

mr. incrediball · Post by **mr. incrediball** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:09 pm

jay_a2j wrote:
Backglass wrote: You think that if you dont believe in a god, you must be aligned with a devil.

Jesus said, "Whoever is not for me, is against me" .. So yeah.....

well, that seems a tad selfish, don't you think? it doesn't matter what you believe in, as long as you're a good person!

Mirak · Post by **Mirak** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:10 pm

Just wanted to be sure Jay....
So we have an omnipotent, all knowing , all seeing, infallible, he God who created all these terrible things like hell, demons, Satan, sin you and me :wink:

presumably not by accident.......having created us in his own image he then decides this is boring, let's get a rib out and create woman.....oops..naughty woman tempts perfect man (who if you remember was created in Gods own image) and the rest is history, so to speak...
He then consciously decides that he should not use his rather abundant powers to alleviate all the injustice, suffering and general lack of hygiene, because that would just be too simple...why click a finger when you can just let them kill each other for millenia.....etc...etc...etc

My point....If there is a God with the credentials you espouse things would be pretty perfect all around..as things are demonstrably not perfect, either there is no God or if there is he should be sued for gross negligence

Now before you accuse me of hating God I would point out that you cannot hate something that does not exist...I do not hate unicorns, dragons or mermaids...and I do not hate God...but I hate all that is and has been done in his name and all that will be done unless we all start to think for ourselves...

mr. incrediball · Post by **mr. incrediball** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:16 pm

there are a few possibilities:

1: Life came from nothing, the challenge is to find out how

2: God created everything and the suffering in the earth is punishment for sins/ God has the entire universe on his hands and can barely spend any time on poor little earth, evolution was planted by god to see who would remain loyal to him.

3: Evolution is god's way of working the kinks out of life, god doesn't want to interfere with our free will so he is forced to let suffering continue

personally, option 1 is the most reasonable.

mr. incrediball · Post by **mr. incrediball** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:20 pm

as for learning how to talk... we taught ourselves, by observing other humans and finding ways to communicate with them, we slowly created language today.

heavycola · Post by **heavycola** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 4:59 pm

JAy you misunderstand everything.

The ape-like creature at the start of your professor's chart was the commonancetsor we share with apes.

Language evolved from grunts and clicks.
Tennis has to be taught. So does evolutionary theory. Are they both proof that god exists?

And you have no real grasp of the theories as to how life could have originated. Actually you understand one theory - that a giant spaghetti monster invented it. That may be true, but don't you think you should at least attempt to understand what you are rubbishing? It's like me sneering at quantum geometry.

I really think you should read up on this stuff before dismissing it. At the very least it will sharpen your own ideas and beliefs. You yourslef said somewhere in this thread that you ignored evolution when it was taught to you. Even as ateenager you were too closed-minded to even hear what your science teacher had to say?

mr. incrediball · Post by **mr. incrediball** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 5:14 pm

these arguments are really dumb...

imagine there is a teapot orbiting the earth, someone says, "right, i can't prove that the teapot doesn't exist, so i will beleive in the teapot" so cultures are built around the teapot, massive buildings are built to commemorate the teapot, people who don't believe in the teapot are burnt, later scientists start to find evidence that the teapot may not actually exist and this causes massive schisms across the globe... etc etc...

it all gets stupid, why do people argue about pointless crap like this?

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 6:23 pm

mr. incrediball wrote:these arguments are really dumb...

imagine there is a teapot orbiting the earth, someone says, "right, i can't prove that the teapot doesn't exist, so i will beleive in the teapot" so cultures are built around the teapot, massive buildings are built to commemorate the teapot, people who don't believe in the teapot are burnt, later scientists start to find evidence that the teapot may not actually exist and this causes massive schisms across the globe... etc etc...

it all gets stupid, why do people argue about pointless crap like this?

Because some people need a reason to live and/or for all the things in the world. Some people aren't capable of conceptualizing a hypothetical God while others aren't capable of conceptualizing a hypothetical lack of God.

It's all evolution anyhow. The evolution of deities goes from everything has a spirit to only celestial phenomena having spirits (The sun, moon, thunder, etc.), to only one diety who controls it all.

The next inevitable step in that progression of less and less dieties is no diety at all. Not everyone is there yet, and so we have these arguments.

slash1890 · Post by **slash1890** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:31 pm

Jay, I want to hear what you have to say about Noah's ark.

hawkeye · Post by **hawkeye** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 9:41 pm

I don't believe in God, but I beliueve there just might be some greater power, but I highly doubt there is. I've never read any of the Bible, and don't intend to for quite a while, if ever. I'm really bored.

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:01 pm

Mirak wrote:Just wanted to be sure Jay....
So we have an omnipotent, all knowing , all seeing, infallible, he God who created all these terrible things like hell, demons, Satan, sin you and me presumably not by accident.......having created us in his own image he then decides this is boring, let's get a rib out and create woman.....oops..naughty woman tempts perfect man (who if you remember was created in Gods own image) and the rest is history, so to speak...
He then consciously decides that he should not use his rather abundant powers to alleviate all the injustice, suffering and general lack of hygiene, because that would just be too simple...why click a finger when you can just let them kill each other for millenia.....etc...etc...etc

My point....If there is a God with the credentials you espouse things would be pretty perfect all around..as things are demonstrably not perfect, either there is no God or if there is he should be sued for gross negligence

Now before you accuse me of hating God I would point out that you cannot hate something that does not exist...I do not hate unicorns, dragons or mermaids...and I do not hate God...but I hate all that is and has been done in his name and all that will be done unless we all start to think for ourselves...

Lets try to clear this up. God created paradice (Garden of Eden) and Adam and Eve who inhabited the Garden. Sin came into the world (see fall of man ie. Eve eating the forbidden fruit). Now God can not co-habitate with sin since He is without sin. Thus Jesus came to the world to sacrifice Himself so that we (man) might be forgiven our sins and therefore, with our sins forgiven, can now live with God. Those who reject Gods gift of salvation must live apart from God (by their own choice).

Think of it this way. God creates beings and they worship Him. With man, God has given us free will. So we can either choose to serve Him or not. God could have created us without free will and everybody (even you) would worship Him (you wouldn't have a choice). God wants to be loved and served because we want to. This is true love. Forced love is not love. How would you feel if your child was asked, "Do you love your father?" and he responded, "Yes, but only because he is forcing me."

God loves us, so much that He gave His only Son. God wishes that NONE should perish but He leaves the decision to us.

Also to respond to backglass... demons, angels and witches exist as for the vampire thing I heard that there once was a man who drank blood...but I don't think he could turn into a bat. :wink:

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:06 pm

slash1890 wrote:Jay, I want to hear what you have to say about Noah's ark.

what exactly?

slash1890 · Post by **slash1890** » Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:23 pm

How did he manage to fit the 1.5 million or so specimens of life we have on the earth in pairs of two on the ark?

I've asked a religious person before, and he says that evolution can occur in that time.

That makes no sense though. You cannot fit 1.5 million kinds of animals into one boat, nor can you be able to organize them in lines of two by two. However, if you cite evolution, then that makes you a hypocrite, because you so obviously don't believe in evolution.

So what's up?

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 1:36 am

slash1890 wrote:How did he manage to fit the 1.5 million or so specimens of life we have on the earth in pairs of two on the ark?

I've asked a religious person before, and he says that evolution can occur in that time.

That makes no sense though. You cannot fit 1.5 million kinds of animals into one boat, nor can you be able to organize them in lines of two by two. However, if you cite evolution, then that makes you a hypocrite, because you so obviously don't believe in evolution.

So what's up?

First of all we must agree that there is a difference between evolution and adaptation. Animals can adapt to their surroundings but they can not become a completely different animal. The arch was a big boat. And if this was the boat >>> http://english.sdaglobal.org/evangelism/arch/noah.htm then it had 3 decks. The bottom deck alone consisting of 144 rooms.

Now as far as animals on the arch, all of them were gathered on the arch "each according to its kind". "two by two" (a male and female so they could reproduce later) Does that mean when the CAT boarded the boat it was 2 callico,2 simease etc. or just 1 pair of cat which would later reproduce and depending on where they went to live adapted to their enviornments and became different breeds yet remained cats none the less. No one knows outside of God. But this is not evolution. Its adaptation. Just like if you didn't move your right arm for a period of time you would lose the use of it forever. Are you then a new species of human?

Backglass · Post by **Backglass** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:57 am

jay_a2j wrote:Also to respond to backglass... demons, angels and witches exist

OK...

Humans with wings (Angel's) - Real
Horses with wings (Pegasus) - Silly Fantasy

Evil Bloodthirsty Demons - Real
Evil Bloodthirsty Vampires - Silly Fantasy

Wicked Witches - Real
Wicked Werewolves - Silly Fantasy

Gotcha...very logical. :roll:

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:07 am

Backglass wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:Also to respond to backglass... demons, angels and witches exist

OK...

Humans with wings (Angel's) - Real
Horses with wings (Pegasus) - Silly Fantasy

Evil Bloodthirsty Demons - Real
Evil Bloodthirsty Vampires - Silly Fantasy

Wicked Witches - Real
Wicked Werewolves - Silly Fantasy

Gotcha...very logical.

Angels are not human.

Witches exist not as from the Wizard of Oz but they do exist. They cast spells not realizing that their power comes from demons (fallen angels)

You have a problem believing in things you can not see. So I guess atoms, radiation and the wind do not exist either. :roll:

mr. incrediball · Post by **mr. incrediball** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 10:13 am

Angels are not human.

Witches exist not as from the Wizard of Oz but they do exist. They cast spells not realizing that their power comes from demons (fallen angels)

You have a problem believing in things you can not see. So I guess atoms, radiation and the wind do not exist either.

1: you can see atoms as they make up EVERYTHING

2: true, you can't see radiation or the wind, but you can see the affect they have on things you can see, as opposed to witches, angels and demons.

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Sat Oct 21, 2006 11:33 am

mr. incrediball wrote:2: true, you can't see radiation or the wind, but you can see the affect they have on things you can see, as opposed to witches, angels and demons.

I can see the effect that they have on things. :wink:

Logic dictates that there is a God!

Does God exist?