Greater China [Quenched] (thanks Widowmakers)

Wisse · Post by **Wisse** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:30 am

edbeard wrote:One thing I guess for Wisse to answer. I think I've asked this before, but I can't remember the answer or find it in the thread.

It seems to me that the Chinese Kashmir being able to bombard E. Xizang is a gimmick for gimmick's sake. I can't imagine what type of history would make this type of attack relevant for this map.

yup you or someone else asked this before,
kashmir has a defence status, so i thought it would be nice if you can protect yourself from being attacked (or conquered) from the one way border, its just a little more strategy

Wisse · Post by **Wisse** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:31 am

edbeard wrote:well then the only way to get to the north from the southeast would be to go west to the green area

that's probably not a good idea

you forgot the shandong bridge

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:51 am

if i understand correctly, wm is going to do just a few minor adjustments.
if that's the case then hurry up cause it's been sitting here for ages.

please don't change anything major cause i like the way the map looks.

edbeard · Post by **edbeard** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:43 pm

Wisse wrote:
edbeard wrote:well then the only way to get to the north from the southeast would be to go west to the green area

that's probably not a good idea

you forgot the shandong bridge

Uhhh. You're looking at the wrong area. I'm talking about the south east area

Post by **iancanton** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 4:09 pm

good point. let's remove the anhui-jiangxi bridge, but keep the hunan-hubei bridge so that we have only one discontigous continent, nanjing (like extreme global warming's africa). we can remove one of the green bridges instead of the yellow one. which of the green bridges is preferable?

ian.

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:53 pm

DiM wrote:if i understand correctly, wm is going to do just a few minor adjustments.
if that's the case then hurry up cause it's been sitting here for ages.

please don't change anything major cause i like the way the map looks.

Correct DiM. I will not be "changing" any of the graphics. If i need to add new mountains, I will use the same stuff as Wisse already made. If I need to move rivers , I will use the style already there.

My goal is to get this done and out for play. ASAP

WM

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 7:55 pm

WidowMakers wrote:
DiM wrote:if i understand correctly, wm is going to do just a few minor adjustments.
if that's the case then hurry up cause it's been sitting here for ages.

please don't change anything major cause i like the way the map looks.
Correct DiM. I will not be "changing" any of the graphics. If i need to add new mountains, I will use the same stuff as Wisse already made. If I need to move rivers , I will use the style already there.

My goal is to get this done and out for play. ASAP

WM

3 cheers for you then

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 10:58 pm

OK here are teh updates

Changes
1) Removed Antrui/Jaingxi Bridge
2) put Chinese Kashmir in the bonus table with a bonus of zero
3) To be more geographically correct, can u draw some mountains to make a barrier between Qinghai and Sichuan
4) remove the Yunnan-Guangxi border. Move the border of Guizhou-Guangxi south to cover the difference.
5) perhaps put some impassable mountains between sichuan and hubei, so that green and yellow are not always thinking about attacking each other; in real life, these are the gorge mountains (wu shan), close to the famous three gorges
6) Change the yellow river to follow its real path west, north and east of shaanxi, then remove the river south of shaanxi. build a bridge to link gansu with shaanxi, so that shaanxi is not separated from the other red territories.

SO NOW
Many borders have changed and teh bonuses might need to be adjusted.
-Shaanxi now has 3 more borders (Hena, Hubie and Sichuan)
-Nanjing bonus group is now in 2 parts and the bonus was increase to 5
-Chengdu bonus group now has 2 borders instead of three

ORIGINAL

NEW

EDIT: Need to redo Wisse Sig and get rid of Link

WM

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:52 am

one more thing. kasmir has black/white stripes in the legend but on the map it has black/gray strips. make the the same.

Wisse · Post by **Wisse** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:04 am

nicely done WM

i like the new changes,
but i don't like the glow at the arrows (if others like them more keep them

)
also remove the bridge from shaanxi to shanxi

and if possible (i think it is) put the wall layer above the river layer
and make the black c.kashmir in the legend a bit less dark

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:03 pm

Wisse wrote:nicely done WM i like the new changes,
but i don't like the glow at the arrows (if others like them more keep them )
also remove the bridge from shaanxi to shanxi and if possible (i think it is) put the wall layer above the river layer
and make the black c.kashmir in the legend a bit less dark

NP. I will make these changes asap.

Now remember with all of these changes he bonuses will most likely be different. We will need some rework of those possibly.

WM

Unit_2 · Post by **Unit_2** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:07 pm

i like the glow :wink:

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:14 pm

Unit_2 wrote:i like the glow

Justo let everyone know. I added the glow because the arrows were hard to see. I actually missed one of them until I started moving layers around.

WM

hecter · Post by **hecter** » Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:16 pm

I think that Chinese Kashmir on the legend can be just grey. It's damn near impossible to read stripped like that...

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:49 am

OK here is version 3.

Edits:

If this is all good than we need bonus recalcs and I will start on setting up the small map.

WM

Wisse · Post by **Wisse** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:02 am

nice wm

but i liked kashmir more when it was dark, maybe make them both dark

and the text "chinese kashmir" does look much brighter on the map then in the legend, darken it a bit (not to much

or you can make it the same colour as the other country names)

my name is good, but could you move it to where it was? it now seems irritating to look at because there is blue sea behind it

the only bonus that needs to be changed is chengdu (to 2) since you already changed nanjing

it looks great

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 6:21 am

Wisse wrote:nice wm
but i liked kashmir more when it was dark, maybe make them both dark
and the text "chinese kashmir" does look much brighter on the map then in the legend, darken it a bit (not to much or you can make it the same colour as the other country names)

my name is good, but could you move it to where it was? it now seems irritating to look at because there is blue sea behind it

the only bonus that needs to be changed is chengdu (to 2) since you already changed nanjing

it looks great

Well I am off to work now. I will make the changes to night and post. If there are no other points of discussion I will do the small map as well.

WM

Post by **iancanton** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:29 pm

WidowMakers wrote:4) remove the Yunnan-Guangxi border. Move the border of Guizhou-Guangxi south to cover the difference.

this has made guizhou a strange shape. try restoring yunnan and guizhou to their original shapes, then putting mountains between yunnan and guangxi (it does happen to be a mountainous area). this means each province will be its proper shape, while having the same effect on gameplay.

the yellow river looks much better now!

ian.

onbekende · Post by **onbekende** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:40 pm

Bonus calc needed? onbekende is here

I get (will adjust to gameplay)

Lanzhou: 5 terr, 3 def, 4 att, 5 cont => Bonus of 4 (3 is indeed more then well, tales only 2 to hold green/red)
Shenyang: 3 terr, 3 def/att, 2 cont => Bonus of 3 (side continent, debatable weither 3 or 2, I say 2 thou)
Guangzhou: 5 terr, 4 def/att, 4 cont => Bonus of 4 (good enough, Hubei will be the site for many battles)
Nanjing: 6 terr, 4 def/att, 2 cont => Bonus of 4 (Indeed better 4, 4 terr need defending for the bonus, and you already get 1 army for Jiangsu!)
Beijing: 3 terr, 2 att/def, 2 cont => Bonus of 2 (good)
Chengdu: 4 terr, 3 def/att, 2 cont => Bonus of 3 (3 is the absolute max, green/red is easely controlled continent block)
Jinan: 2 terr, 2 def/att, 5 cont => Bonus of 3 (perhaps a 2 for the troubles of keeping those 2 terr in the middle of it all?)

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:53 am

Well I did not get around to doing the small map but here is the fixed Version 4 Large

Fixed
-Move Wisse Sig to original position
-Adjusted bonuses (onbekende)
-restore yunnan and guizhou to their original shapes, then putting mountains between yunnan and guangxi
-i liked kashmir more when it was dark, maybe make them both dark
-you can make text "chinese kashmir" the same colour as the other country names

Wisse · Post by **Wisse** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 10:59 am

onbekende, i don't agree with the bonus of 2 for jinan, i agree its not easy to defend but then it only has 2 countries and i made some sort of formula in my head wich is praticaly about the same as yours but then that a bonus can not be even or more then the total of countries held, why? because then the bonus is to overpowered, you only got to defend 2 countries and as bonus you can deploy 1 army on every country each turn, then it will be more a game on who gets jinan first and keeps it
so change jinan back

all other things are good WM

onbekende · Post by **onbekende** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 3:43 pm

read my extra comments behind the calculated bonus, I said 2 (I just give the calculated one as it actually shows pretty good howmuch you get if its on any map)

Wisse · Post by **Wisse** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:11 pm

onbekende wrote:read my extra comments behind the calculated bonus, I said 2 (I just give the calculated one as it actually shows pretty good howmuch you get if its on any map)

eum i don't get what you are saying now (yes i did get what you did say near the formula), i just said that a 2 bonus for a 2 country continent is to much

WidowMakers · Post by **WidowMakers** » Fri Feb 01, 2008 7:40 pm

OK Version 5

I changes the bonus for Jinan back to 1

If these are OK. The XML can get reworked (I moved several circles) and QUENCH. Great Job Wisse.

onbekende · Post by **onbekende** » Sat Feb 02, 2008 4:01 am

Wisse wrote:
onbekende wrote:read my extra comments behind the calculated bonus, I said 2 (I just give the calculated one as it actually shows pretty good howmuch you get if its on any map)

eum i don't get what you are saying now (yes i did get what you did say near the formula), i just said that a 2 bonus for a 2 country continent is to much

I said this:

Jinan: 2 terr, 2 def/att, 5 cont => Bonus of 3 (perhaps a 2 for the troubles of keeping those 2 terr in the middle of it all?)

note the bolded part, never said +2 was bad