Gay marriage

[Norse]

'fraid not.

ah well.

Probably not though.

However, sex ed in Britain was basically, for me, an old lady coming in and speaking pointedly towards girls, in a round-about way about how men are a bunch of cunts.

But eh, they'd have found it out sooner or later anyway.

I edited with a Youtube Link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDoQFcQEpOQ

Hilarious.

[Snorri1234]

Snorri, what I suggest to you, is either go back and re-read what I have stated, reading between the lines, possibly getting off of your little soap-box and opening your eyes to the reality of the situation. You can try to put words in my mouth to suit your little cause if you wish, this does not bother me, as anyone who has half a brain in their head may have been able to comprehend what I was saying.

No. If what I said wasn't what you meant, then you should state your position again. Because you're sounding like quite the hypocrite by saying you have nothing against gays and saying it's natural, but in the same post also saying kids shouldn't learn about gays actually existing in sex ed.
Explain what I missed between the lines, or quit acting like you're so cool and wise and shit like that.

See, the problem with chatting to people like you, is that it is literally like trying to talk to a brick wall, there is only an echo, the same old echo that does not change. I'm guessing that you are probably a below average intelligence 17 year old.

Wrong guess. I'm a 19 year old guy currently studying medicine. So I know about the risks of sex and the devastating consequences of not teaching kids about it, and also know actual people who have learned about gay sex who don't think it's a big deal. (Not to mention I'm pretty fucking intelligent compared to many other people.)

Now, what I suggest to you, getting back onto my point, was that you can either try to read between the lines, or go through the rest of your life being an infuriatingly monotonous brick. I am not in the mood for a "round the merri-go-round" disscussion with a child.

Go and speak to someone else about it.

Speak to who else? The problem is that you're the only one disagreeing with me! Why should I talk to my friends who think gay sex in sexual education is totally okay about how I think it's totally okay? That's fucking stupid.



See what you are forgetting, is that I come from a country that is the most pro-gay rights in basically the whole world. We were the first to allow gay marriage (and even most churches now approve it), and Amsterdam is considered the gay capital of the world. (Well, sometimes..)
To top it all off, we have absolutely no problem with homosexuality and consider it normal. The most popular right-wing politician, if not the most popular politician in a long time here, Pim Fortuyn (who sadly got killed because he was pro-fur (wtf?)) was openly gay. AND NOONE CARED ABOUT IT!
Should I mention that we have very thorough sexual education here? (Lowest teenage pregnancy rate in fucking Europe?)So...

[brooksieb]

well i said it shud not be allowed earlier but i think it shud now because its their choice but i strongly wudnt do anything of that nature because i think its unnatural but its their choice in what to do in life

[Snorri1234]

well i said it shud not be allowed earlier but i think it shud now because its their choice but i strongly wudnt do anything of that nature because i think its unnatural but its their choice in what to do in life

This is good. You don't have to approve of the lifestyle to tolerate it. That's the whole idea about tolerance.

You have every right to think it's unnatural.

[Norse]

No. If what I said wasn't what you meant, then you should state your position again. Because you're sounding like quite the hypocrite by saying you have nothing against gays and saying it's natural, but in the same post also saying kids shouldn't learn about gays actually existing in sex ed.

I am not going to repeat myself again, as it is the same as the other 3 times I have clarified it.

It is quite simple really, (repeating again) Since gay people in my opinoin have some genetic deficiency/inadequacy at birth (like, say, mental retardation) they should be given certain legal rights to allow them to be on par with straighties financially and emotionally, ie civil partnership.

Now. This, as we all very well know, is not a naturally inclined manner of witholding one's gene pool. This may is seen by many as an "unnatural" state of affairs. Still with me? good! Now, I from where I stand, feel as though anyone who has the biological urges not to reproduce, deserve less appreciation than other people, after all, it is not all little faggotty fun and games, with frilly pink knickers and all night benders for the rest of us, eh? In many ways, straighties are cursed to reproduce, it is an urge that is felt, that renders more stress than joy, but yet we do it out of this unknown urge to want to see the continuity of our little species.

Now, this is why I see homosexuals as (slightly) less deserving than straighties. The worlsd is their one big oyster of indulgence, indifference and indulgence. Ya sure, the odd selfish fat lesbo might want the odd kid, and then sue the stupid fucker who donated his sperm for maintenance at a later point, but on the whole, Gays are the end of their genetic line.

Gone, just like that.

It is, in my fucking correct opinion that this is not correct animal behaviour.

And to me, they do not deserve this tag of "marraige" but a mere "civil partnership".

Speak to who else? The problem is that you're the only one disagreeing with me! Why should I talk to my friends who think gay sex in sexual education is totally okay about how I think it's totally okay? That's fucking stupid.

Far out.

I'm glad that holland is a fucking shit hole. Nowt more than you deserve, young dopey.

[Guiscard]

...it opens a very dark corridor of imagination, to otherwise untainted children.

To be honest, I couldnt give a flying f*ck what anyone gets up to in their bedrooms, but laying the foundations of a fairly wayward point of view onto young children is in my mind repulsive.

So essentially these are your own prejudices. Unfortunately those prejudices are not shared by UK law, and so sex education has an absolute duty to include homosexuality.

If you don't like it then I'm afraid you're going to have to home school. I perish the thought...

[Norse]

...it opens a very dark corridor of imagination, to otherwise untainted children.

To be honest, I couldnt give a flying f*ck what anyone gets up to in their bedrooms, but laying the foundations of a fairly wayward point of view onto young children is in my mind repulsive.

So essentially these are your own prejudices. Unfortunately those prejudices are not shared by UK law, and so sex education has an absolute duty to include homosexuality.

If you don't like it then I'm afraid you're going to have to home school. I perish the thought...

Oh, if it isn't my favourite little cob-hobbled, shiny booted, long-socked, prefect guiscard!

I hope you brought me a shiny apple in today.

Now, where were we.....ah yes! Guiscard giving me a lesson on UK law....do his talents have any limit?

Now sissy, the day a child of mine has some gape assed, lisp lipped, fair haired friend of yours teaching them about "how sssssuper!!" rogering another mans fucking hairy ass is, is the day you get off of your backside and do something useful.

Oh yeah, and happy fucking new year.

[Guiscard]

...it opens a very dark corridor of imagination, to otherwise untainted children.

To be honest, I couldnt give a flying f*ck what anyone gets up to in their bedrooms, but laying the foundations of a fairly wayward point of view onto young children is in my mind repulsive.

So essentially these are your own prejudices. Unfortunately those prejudices are not shared by UK law, and so sex education has an absolute duty to include homosexuality.

If you don't like it then I'm afraid you're going to have to home school. I perish the thought...

Oh, if it isn't my favourite little cob-hobbled, shiny booted, long-socked, prefect guiscard!

I hope you brought me a shiny apple in today.

Now, where were we.....ah yes! Guiscard giving me a lesson on UK law....do his talents have any limit?

Now sissy, the day a child of mine has some gape assed, lisp lipped, fair haired friend of yours teaching them about "how sssssuper!!" rogering another mans fucking hairy ass is, is the day you get off of your backside and do something useful.

Oh yeah, and happy fucking new year.

What a wonderfully educated response. Sums you up perfectly and, furthermore, sums up exactly the reason why you deserve absolutely zero input when discussing gay marriage.

True colours and all that, eh?

Top class.

[Norse]

I'm sorry sissy, did you actually put to me any kind of arguement? or merely stated, in a flaccid manner some "off the top of your head" jurasdiction that doesnt fucking exist, and in any point had no relevance to the passage you quoted?

See guiscard, you get out what you put in im afraid. Except,. I'm better at this shit than you.

Now, where's my apple young man?

[Norse]

Oh! He makes me sooo mad, I could squeeze a grape!

[Snorri1234]

It is quite simple really, (repeating again) Since gay people in my opinoin have some genetic deficiency/inadequacy at birth (like, say, mental retardation) they should be given certain legal rights to allow them to be on par with straighties financially and emotionally, ie civil partnership.

Okay.

Now. This, as we all very well know, is not a naturally inclined manner of witholding one's gene pool. This may is seen by many as an "unnatural" state of affairs. Still with me? good! Now, I from where I stand, feel as though anyone who has the biological urges not to reproduce, deserve less appreciation than other people, after all, it is not all little faggotty fun and games, with frilly pink knickers and all night benders for the rest of us, eh? In many ways, straighties are cursed to reproduce, it is an urge that is felt, that renders more stress than joy, but yet we do it out of this unknown urge to want to see the continuity of our little species.

We don't have the urge to reproduce, we have the urge to have sex. Sex is nature's way of reproducing in most species. But since the urge to have sex is the same for gays and straight people, it's obvious that gay people have the urge to reproduce too.

You might say they're having sex not with the intent to reproduce, but that holds true for anyone who uses condoms or the pill too. I don't have sex with the intent to get a kid, that is one of the things I desperately don't want right now!

But I feel I must mention that homosexuality is a factor in us reproducing better, as a homosexual can help it's brothers and sisters raise children better. Homosexuality is helping to give the genes of the family more survival chances. Which helps the homosexual person to keep it's own gense alive through it. (Since that person has a set of genes the same as the family.)

Now, this is why I see homosexuals as (slightly) less deserving than straighties. The worlsd is their one big oyster of indulgence, indifference and indulgence. Ya sure, the odd selfish fat lesbo might want the odd kid, and then sue the stupid fucker who donated his sperm for maintenance at a later point, but on the whole, Gays are the end of their genetic line.
Gone, just like that.

Obviously, and quite clearly not.
A.) Many homosexual couples express the desire to have kids of their own. I mean, I know a lesbian couple who had 2 kids of their own.
B.) In line with my previous point about genetics, gays can futher their genetic line through the kids of their relatives. It's why homosexuality hasn't died out over the many million years sex has been the method of reproducing.

It is, in my fucking correct opinion that this is not correct animal behaviour.

But it is not a correct opinion. As animals show a lot of homosexual behaviour and haven't died out. As dieing out is one of the major clues on whether a species is prospering or not, and since prospering is good for a species, I feel quite confident in saying homosexuality is quite frankly correct animal behaviour.

And to me, they do not deserve this tag of "marraige" but a mere "civil partnership".

Marriage is a civil partnership according to anyone but the church.

Far out.

I'm glad that holland is a fucking shit hole. Nowt more than you deserve, young dopey.

I agree, with our swimmingly functioning healthcare and our very low pregnancy rates, I understand that you consider it a shithole.

Rest assured, I will fondly think of you next time I use some of our legal marijuana and booze (available from age 16) when I consider the fact our economy is prosperous, our GDP per capita is bigger than yours and I live in one of the most liberal countries in the world.

[Norse]

Okay.

Damn right it is.

We don't have the urge to reproduce, we have the urge to have sex. Sex is nature's way of reproducing in most species. But since the urge to have sex is the same for gays and straight people, it's obvious that gay people have the urge to reproduce too.

Very, very niave here kiddo.

What Straight, healthy-minded women does not want children? Even I, despite being a young man, am coming to terms that at some point, I will be a father, and am concious that I will need to be equipped with the correct mannerisms and parental abilities for fatherhood.

Christ, even when I was about 16/17, I would have been a good father, as I was always a very responsible, protective lad. Something that has obviously not been implanted within your defficient gene-pool, thus these whacky, "urbanite cesspool" idea's you have.

I'll tell you what your problem is, the animal within you has left, and you have been left with this shell, this empty shell that you use as a front and label as "cultural" or "cool" or whatever it is that you call in your dope-infested shit hole.

I still have the animal in me, self-respect, natural urge, responsibility and most of all, the certainty that I will never let down those whome I cherish.

That, my friend, is your bone of contention.

Old psycho-analyst norse, here to solve one others problems....NEXT!

[Snorri1234]

We don't have the urge to reproduce, we have the urge to have sex. Sex is nature's way of reproducing in most species. But since the urge to have sex is the same for gays and straight people, it's obvious that gay people have the urge to reproduce too.

Very, very niave here kiddo.

What Straight, healthy-minded women does not want children? Even I, despite being a young man, am coming to terms that at some point, I will be a father, and am concious that I will need to be equipped with the correct mannerisms and parental abilities for fatherhood.

What woman doesn't want children? Not many.
What woman doesn't want children right at the moment they can get them? Quite a lot.

See what you're missing here is that having sex without reproducing is still satisfying that sexual need. So even though your body wants to reproduce, every time you use a condom or your girl uses the pill you are denying your body that urge. The urge to reproduce will grow stronger as your brain figures you aren't reproducing, but both you and I aren't at the point yet were we really want it. (And I mean really fucking want it.)

But honestly, the fact that many gay couples want kids isn't sufficient proof that they have the urge to reproduce? The fact that there are actually kids I know with gay parents who aren't gay themselves shows nothing to make you consider your medieval views?

Christ, even when I was about 16/17, I would have been a good father, as I was always a very responsible, protective lad. Something that has obviously not been implanted within your defficient gene-pool, thus these whacky, "urbanite cesspool" idea's you have.

Surely you would've been a good father with all your good manners and wisdom, but not with the fact you were only 17 and therefore not fucking able to raise the child. Raising a kid is not only about whether you think you can impart all the wisdom and shit on the child, but sheer financial and emotional readiness.
How many 18 year old fathers do you know? Are they raising their kids in a clean, healthy and financially safe environment? Or are they poor and barely able to support their family?

I'll tell you what your problem is, the animal within you has left, and you have been left with this shell, this empty shell that you use as a front and label as "cultural" or "cool" or whatever it is that you call in your dope-infested shit hole.

Not content with merely attacking my facts (which you didn't really do anyway), you resort to attacking what you think is my life. I don't fucking care if the animal in me left, since you think that animal is the thing that makes you want children from the very moment you can.

I want children! I just think that when I'm 30 I will be better at raising them. In 10 years time, I feel I would have a more financially secure position and be more able to deal with the stress that is involved.

I still have the animal in me, self-respect, natural urge, responsibility and most of all, the certainty that I will never let down those whome I cherish.

That, my friend, is your bone of contention.

Old psycho-analyst norse, here to solve one others problems....NEXT!

Huh? Did you try to say something reasonable there or did you just lay your dick on the keyboard untill you had enough letters?


But honestly, by "okay" I didn't mean I somehow agreed with your viewpoint that homosexuality is a deficiency. I merely meant to convey that you have every right to think in such a mindboggingly stupid way.
Despite the fact homosexuality is natural, benificial and not immoral, you cling to your precious viewpoint like a religious fundie. You base your views on nothing but outdated stances which have no basis in reality, and you claim I'm being naive?

[The Chosen One]

I've read each of these posts with interest, uneasiness, joy and downright shock and dismay... as a well educated, successful professional who lives a quiet, peaceful (outside my work), and open life, I rarely engage in public debate about anyone's sexual or religious preferences...still there are a few points in this thread I MUST speak too...

1) For those who hide behind the Bible and the belief that animals have no souls, therefore the 5-10% of all mammals studied who exhibit exclusively homosexual behavior do not count, quote me the scripture that says this about the animals... show me the justification for the Inquisition, the Salem Witch Trials, the Crusades and the list goes on. There aren't any. Throughout history, self-absorbed, power hungry people with their own personal agendas have shaped what is currently called Christianity. None of these atrocities originated from the true love spoken of in Corinthians nor did the ignorant belief that some are better than others, whether it be people of a different race, gender, religious or sexual preference. I challenge those of you who hold to these "beliefs" to examine your own heart. What need or desire does it fill in you to belittle another, even when done in the privacy of your own thoughts?

2) For those of you who refuse to examine your own hearts and souls and say a "civil union" is good enough for the gays... well listen to Satanspaladin. How is it NOT an abomination and shameful that two people who are so committed in a loving relationship simply can not be buried next to each other? How is it that in the name of One who epitomizes the ultimate love in laying down His life for mankind, can you possibly justify and support such ignorant hatred?

3) For those of you who personalize this debate and degenerate into useless personal battles, step back, take a deep breath and realize that continuing the anger, continuing the hatred on both sides of the debate lessens you and your argument. And for those of you who think you have all the answers, unless I missed it on CNN, God has not resigned and left anyone else in charge.

4) For those of you who think you are justified in hating a lifestyle different than yours because you spout an "enlightened hey live and let live" bunch of verbiage ...Until you have walked down a strange street and had someone spit on you or curse & threaten you because they think you are black or gay or just in the wrong place, just shut the f*ck up. You do more damage with your hidden prejudices than do the spitters and the cursers.

5) Much of this debate reminds me of the debates that began in the "60s about Equal Rights...and I don't mean for African-Americans or women. How many of you out there know that in the USA, that until 1969 NO known Native American was allowed to vote in any federal elections? Until then, every Native American had to choose... deny your heritage in order to exercise this "One Nation Under God" right to vote or continue be left at the mercy of the same Nation that stole your land, destroyed your way of life and raped/killed your women and children all for the benefit of the white eyes way of life, religion and profit. Do you know until 1948 Native Americans had to have "government permission" to have a legally recognized marriage with anyone outside their own tribe? Are you appalled by this now? How many of you now proudly lay claim to a Native American heritage? Don't you think that if as a species we continue to progress, someday in the not to distant future someone may say with pride "Yea man, my great grandparents were gay. They helped get those stupid laws changed. They had guts and self-respect"

[gryffin13]

See, the problem with chatting to people like you, is that it is literally like trying to talk to a brick wall, there is only an echo, the same old echo that does not change. I'm guessing that you are probably a below average intelligence 17 year old.

This is laughable. You are insulting someone's intelligence by misusing words! Real Smart! Look up literally in the dictionary and tell me if you think you used it correctly. Do you think your conversation is actually like talking to a brick wall? Literally means that what you say is actually true, and I have read the post and what snorri said was not an exact echo, of what you previously wrote. I suggest you learn what words mean before insulting people's intelligence.

[Dancing Mustard]

Surely most people feel gay when they get married?

[unriggable]

Surely most people feel gay when they get married?

I hear it's a good excuse to get divorced.

[Norse]

This is laughable. You are insulting someone's intelligence by misusing words! Real Smart! Look up literally in the dictionary and tell me if you think you used it correctly. Do you think your conversation is actually like talking to a brick wall? Literally means that what you say is actually true, and I have read the post and what snorri said was not an exact echo, of what you previously wrote. I suggest you learn what words mean before insulting people's intelligence.

Ouch, bit of a clanger here eh? It is called "a figure of speech"...they are used fairly often as melodramatically making points.

Maybe you are taking these figures of speech...um....too literally? maybe?

However, since we're all being little pedantic autistic brats today...

You state "we are having a conversation"..now how can we be having a conversation when we are not verbally communicating with each other? Maybe "dialogue" may be a better word for this.

Here is an online dictionary for you

Also, FYI:
Hypocrite
Cunt

[Norse]

Also, how is it possible that I "insult his intelligence"?

His intelligence, surely, is an autonomous function within animals, has no "feelings" and cannot therefore insult it. However, I can insult him, by calling him unintelligent.

See, I don't enjoy this shit, they're becomming wetter.

[satanspaladin]

well Norse I am not sure of the schools in your area ,but when are daughter

had her sexual education class at school thy sent home a request form asking for permission ,we had the choices to refuse this ,so the choices is still yours on how much sexual education thy receive.

if you don.t like the content of this lesson don't send them home teach your values it this subject ,but there are many young adults living in home that
are to discriminatory for them to ask freely questions of there sexuality
that need some out side education in theres matters.

School is a much better and safer place for this than them coming out into the community unprepared.

As for gays not wanting children or reproducing , do remember not all
homosexuals are men ,and lots of lesbian couples do have children
with sperm donations from gay men that are committed to helping with child rearing roles .

[Norse]

SP, I'm sorry if any of what I have said offends you. I have no personal problems with gay people, and have had gay acquaintances in the past. But the fact is, that I would tell them, like I have stated here, what I feel on these matters, if asked.

[Blitzaholic]

I want legitimate answers to this: what is a logical reason for not allowing gay marriage other than personal religious beliefs. The only argument I've ever heard is "the bible says that marriage is between a man and a woman." I want to hear rationale for not allowing gay rights.

BTW I am writing this from an American perspective, I am not sure the laws in many other countries, but feel free to respond from your own perspectives

you want an opinion, i mean some say all homosexual activity leads to sexual diseases more often then it does hetrosexuals, i need the statistics, but if you want an opinion of what some think, it may be it is high risk behavior that hinders health and that there is a majority of gay and lesbians that have a much higher rate of suicidal ideation, role confusion, depression and substance abuse. you asked and many americans feel this way, i would need to ponder on it more if you wanted my opinion personally.

[Blitzaholic]

...it opens a very dark corridor of imagination, to otherwise untainted children.

To be honest, I couldnt give a flying f*ck what anyone gets up to in their bedrooms, but laying the foundations of a fairly wayward point of view onto young children is in my mind repulsive.

If you don't like it then I'm afraid you're going to have to home school. I perish the thought...

the guy who started this thread ask for opinions i think, and all norse did was give his opinion, and he is right, millions of americans have this view that it influences individual identity, others disagree, but millions hold this viewpoint, norse is entitled to his, so cut him some slack.

[Snorri1234]

you want an opinion, i mean some say all homosexual activity leads to sexual diseases more often then it does hetrosexuals, i need the statistics, but if you want an opinion of what some think, it may be it is high risk behavior that hinders health and that there is a majority of gay and lesbians that have a much higher rate of suicidal ideation, role confusion, depression and substance abuse.

Right...


see the problem with this is that we're talking about the marriage. I doubt gays who marry get a lot of sexual diseases. And as for the fact there may be a higher rate of suicidal ideation (whatever that means), role confusion (huh?), depression (oh man I'd like to see proof relating this to the homosexual behaviour and not discrimination and hate) and substance abuse (same), gryffin asked for logical reasons.

[hecter]

I want legitimate answers to this: what is a logical reason for not allowing gay marriage other than personal religious beliefs. The only argument I've ever heard is "the bible says that marriage is between a man and a woman." I want to hear rationale for not allowing gay rights.

BTW I am writing this from an American perspective, I am not sure the laws in many other countries, but feel free to respond from your own perspectives

you want an opinion, i mean some say all homosexual activity leads to sexual diseases more often then it does hetrosexuals, i need the statistics, but if you want an opinion of what some think, it may be it is high risk behavior that hinders health and that there is a majority of gay and lesbians that have a much higher rate of suicidal ideation, role confusion, depression and substance abuse. you asked and many americans feel this way, i would need to ponder on it more if you wanted my opinion personally.

Monogamous homosexual activity is just as dangerous and heterosexual monogamous activity. And that's what we're talking about, isn't it? Monogamous sexual behaviour (marriage).

And if you had people plastered all over the media (for good or bad reasons) saying that they hate you, people saying that you can't marry the ones that you love, and that you deserve to die, running the risk of being beaten to death just for being out at night, having to hide who you are for fear of coworkers hating you, ect. ect. for something as small as being gay, don't you think that you might get a little depressed and pop a few pills? Besides, I'd like to see some statistics to see if that's even true.