Conquer Club

Would you vote for an atheist president, if they were otherwise qualified and supported your ideas?
Don't vote if you're not religious.

A 2006 Gallop Poll found that 48% of Americans wouldn't vote for an atheist president who was otherwise a qualified candidate, compared to
Catholic: 4%
Black: 5%
Jewish: 6%
Baptist: 6%
Woman: 8%
Mormon: 17%
Muslim: 38%
Gay: 37%
[url]
http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistbigo ... urveys.htm[/url]

Simon Viavant wrote:Would you vote for an atheist president, if they were otherwise qualified and supported your ideas?
Don't vote if you're not religious.

A 2006 Gallop Poll found that 48% of Americans wouldn't vote for an atheist president who was otherwise a qualified candidate, compared to
Catholic: 4%
Black: 5%
Jewish: 6%
Baptist: 6%
Woman: 8%
Mormon: 17%
Muslim: 38%
Gay: 37%
[url]
http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistbigo ... urveys.htm[/url]

Haha, 8% wouldn't vote for a woman. There's 8% of the population that needs to not vote ever again...then again I suppose that's true for anyone who bases their votes on race, religion, or level of gayness.

Bush claimed to be a Christian, but made some of the worst decisions in our country's history. That speaks for itself.

I suppose so. So long as they wouldn't be bigoted about being atheist and not whine over things that mention God and have Creator in them. Oh, and not having a hissy fit should the 10 Commandments be available for public viewing. If they don't throw a temper tantrum for the last two things and doesn't insult religious people and their views otherwise fall in line with mine, I'd vote for them.

Frigidus wrote:Haha, 8% wouldn't vote for a woman. There's 8% of the population that needs to not vote ever again...then again I suppose that's true for anyone who bases their votes on race, religion, or level of gayness.

They're entitled to their opinion and their vote - that's kinda the point isn't it?

PLAYER57832 wrote:Bush claimed to be a Christian, but made some of the worst decisions in our country's history. That speaks for itself.

So no Christian makes bad decisions? At least he did what he thought was right (not saying it was, just saying that he at least had the balls to actually do so, and you don't see that often anymore).

muy_thaiguy wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:Bush claimed to be a Christian, but made some of the worst decisions in our country's history. That speaks for itself.

So no Christian makes bad decisions? At least he did what he thought was right (not saying it was, just saying that he at least had the balls to actually do so, and you don't see that often anymore).

Nice to see you being consistent and giving the current president credit for also doing what he thinks is right.

muy_thaiguy wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:Bush claimed to be a Christian, but made some of the worst decisions in our country's history. That speaks for itself.

So no Christian makes bad decisions? At least he did what he thought was right (not saying it was, just saying that he at least had the balls to actually do so, and you don't see that often anymore).

bush had the balls to flout all common sense, dignity, and humanity in the pursuit of his twisted agenda, not so sure that deserves our commendation

Simon Viavant wrote:Don't vote if you're not religious.

Hence the "I'm not religious" option.

The biggest problems in the world aren't Human-made, they are simply Humans. There will always be hate between races/religions/sexual orientation etc. The people without that hate for one another will just die off, because they didn't choose a side. That being said.

I would most certainly vote for any qualified candidate whose views I see eye-to-eye with. That's a big problem just in America, I'm sure the majority of people voted Obama into office because he is African American, not because of any qualifications or shared views.

muy_thaiguy wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:Bush claimed to be a Christian, but made some of the worst decisions in our country's history. That speaks for itself.

So no Christian makes bad decisions? At least he did what he thought was right (not saying it was, just saying that he at least had the balls to actually do so, and you don't see that often anymore).

Never said that. My point was that being Christian hardly made one a great president, so why would being an atheist necessisarily mean they would be a bad one?

Strife wrote:I would most certainly vote for any qualified candidate whose views I see eye-to-eye with. That's a big problem just in America, I'm sure the majority of people voted Obama into office because he is African American, not because of any qualifications or shared views.

You are misinformed. It is hard to get an accurate count, but its likely at least as many people voted for Obaman in spite of his race as because of it. Thankfully, race was just irrelevant for most.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

muy_thaiguy wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:Bush claimed to be a Christian, but made some of the worst decisions in our country's history. That speaks for itself.

So no Christian makes bad decisions? At least he did what he thought was right (not saying it was, just saying that he at least had the balls to actually do so, and you don't see that often anymore).

Never said that. My point was that being Christian hardly made one a great president, so why would being an atheist necessisarily mean they would be a bad one?

I guess it was the way you worded it.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Strife wrote:I would most certainly vote for any qualified candidate whose views I see eye-to-eye with. That's a big problem just in America, I'm sure the majority of people voted Obama into office because he is African American, not because of any qualifications or shared views.

You are misinformed. It is hard to get an accurate count, but its likely at least as many people voted for Obaman in spite of his race as because of it. Thankfully, race was just irrelevant for most.

Your right, many people were (and still are) taken in by his charisma, though I do know of some people even here who simply voted for him because he is black.

I'd like to hear some rationale from those who voted no. Why the hell not?

Simon Viavant wrote:I'd like to hear some rationale from those who voted no. Why the hell not?

Because no one ever disagrees with him right? That's just impossible!

Well we have 3 people saying no, and none of them have posted here.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Strife wrote:I would most certainly vote for any qualified candidate whose views I see eye-to-eye with. That's a big problem just in America, I'm sure the majority of people voted Obama into office because he is African American, not because of any qualifications or shared views.

You are misinformed. It is hard to get an accurate count, but its likely at least as many people voted for Obaman in spite of his race as because of it. Thankfully, race was just irrelevant for most.

Actually it is you who is misinformed. I stated my opinion. I cannot be misinformed on my opinion. Go ahead and ask anyone you know, who voted for Obama, and see if I'm right. I held a poll for my government class, I went around asking people in my community and my friends neighborhoods this: "Who did you vote for?" if they answered Obama(which the majority did) I then asked "Why, or what was the biggest reason for this?" nearly eighty percent of these people had simply said, "Change! I want me a black sonofabitch for my prez."(actually seventy-eight percent). Until you hold your own fuckin poll don't tell me I've been goddamned misinformed. Cause you clearly have your head up your ass if you're just spewing that kind of bullshit out. The poll included me asking 326 people, of which approximately 200(195) people voted for Obama and of those people 152 of those people said because he's a fuckin black man, the other answers include but are not limited to: change, "if I tell you it won't come true(?)," "alright man just get the f*ck off my lawn," and so on, I believe only two people gave me a straight answer about how he would tax the rich for a change. So go feed your misinformed bullshit to someone else please.

I didn't vote no, but my gut would tell me not to vote for them. Even though it's wrong to say that all atheists are immoral because they follow no religious laws, it's also wrong to say that atheists are every bit as moral as Christians. By "moral" I mean following codes of conduct commonly accepted in the Western world, and I'm not looking to get into a debate about "subjective morality" or whatever. Fact is that, even though Christians have a "handicap" to help them behave morally, and yes they still do bad things, they are as a whole more moral than atheists because of this handicap. Long story short, there's an understandable reason why atheists are the least liked group in America, and I'd vote for one despite their faith, but would definitely scrutinize them more carefully.

john9blue wrote:I didn't vote no, but my gut would tell me not to vote for them. Even though it's wrong to say that all atheists are immoral because they follow no religious laws, it's also wrong to say that atheists are every bit as moral as Christians. By "moral" I mean following codes of conduct commonly accepted in the Western world, and I'm not looking to get into a debate about "subjective morality" or whatever. Fact is that, even though Christians have a "handicap" to help them behave morally, and yes they still do bad things, they are as a whole more moral than atheists because of this handicap. Long story short, there's an understandable reason why atheists are the least liked group in America, and I'd vote for one despite their faith, but would definitely scrutinize them more carefully.

your evidence for the greater immorality of American Atheists being...?

jonesthecurl wrote:

john9blue wrote:I didn't vote no, but my gut would tell me not to vote for them. Even though it's wrong to say that all atheists are immoral because they follow no religious laws, it's also wrong to say that atheists are every bit as moral as Christians. By "moral" I mean following codes of conduct commonly accepted in the Western world, and I'm not looking to get into a debate about "subjective morality" or whatever. Fact is that, even though Christians have a "handicap" to help them behave morally, and yes they still do bad things, they are as a whole more moral than atheists because of this handicap. Long story short, there's an understandable reason why atheists are the least liked group in America, and I'd vote for one despite their faith, but would definitely scrutinize them more carefully.

your evidence for the greater immorality of American Atheists being...?

If I might, john? The Bible.

jonesthecurl wrote:your evidence for the greater immorality of American Atheists being...?

Being their lack of a moral code. Whenever atheists hear this they take it personally. I'm not talking about you or Neo or Simon or anyone in particular. You guys could have great morals for all I know. In fact, I suspect a large reason why people my age become atheist is because they want to get drunk, do drugs, have sex, etc. in college and dispense entirely with the morals they grew up with.

john9blue wrote:

jonesthecurl wrote:your evidence for the greater immorality of American Atheists being...?

Being their lack of a moral code. Whenever atheists hear this they take it personally. I'm not talking about you or Neo or Simon or anyone in particular. You guys could have great morals for all I know. In fact, I suspect a large reason why people my age become atheist is because they want to get drunk, do drugs, have sex, etc. in college and dispense entirely with the morals they grew up with.

Actually, I feel like we (or I at least) have a more straitforward, less arbitrary moral code. Our morals include not murdering, stealing, raping, etc.

Your morals include all of that, plus a lot of arbitrary morals like not having butt sex, not drinking before 21, no pre-marital sex, etc.

It is true I guess that we don't have one standardized moral code, but everyone has their own, I guess that would help, but when you look at all the ways the Bible is interpreted, every Christian basically has their own moral code.

Are you also saying Christians are moral because of the incentive, ie the fear of hell? I guess that would be good, but I also think we're actually more moral because we can be moral without expecting to be rewarded for it. If we believe there's no afterlife, we could steal and murder our whole lives and not get punished, but we can be moral by our own choice, not because of the consequences.

Simon Viavant wrote:Are you also saying Christians are moral because of the incentive, ie the fear of hell? I guess that would be good, but I also think we're actually more moral because we can be moral without expecting to be rewarded for it. If we believe there's no afterlife, we could steal and murder our whole lives and not get punished, but we can be moral by our own choice, not because of the consequences.

That's a good point. It depends on whether the actions are more important to you or the meaning behind them. Also it may be accurate to say that Christians would behave similarly to atheists if they weren't part of the Church (although this may not be true as the choice to be an atheist is indicative of one's personality as well).

Strife wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Strife wrote:I would most certainly vote for any qualified candidate whose views I see eye-to-eye with. That's a big problem just in America, I'm sure the majority of people voted Obama into office because he is African American, not because of any qualifications or shared views.

You are misinformed. It is hard to get an accurate count, but its likely at least as many people voted for Obaman in spite of his race as because of it. Thankfully, race was just irrelevant for most.

Actually it is you who is misinformed. I stated my opinion. I cannot be misinformed on my opinion. Go ahead and ask anyone you know, who voted for Obama, and see if I'm right. I held a poll for my government class, I went around asking people in my community and my friends neighborhoods this: "Who did you vote for?" if they answered Obama(which the majority did) I then asked "Why, or what was the biggest reason for this?" nearly eighty percent of these people had simply said, "Change! I want me a black sonofabitch for my prez."(actually seventy-eight percent). Until you hold your own fuckin poll don't tell me I've been goddamned misinformed. Cause you clearly have your head up your ass if you're just spewing that kind of bullshit out. The poll included me asking 326 people, of which approximately 200(195) people voted for Obama and of those people 152 of those people said because he's a fuckin black man, the other answers include but are not limited to: change, "if I tell you it won't come true(?)," "alright man just get the f*ck off my lawn," and so on, I believe only two people gave me a straight answer about how he would tax the rich for a change. So go feed your misinformed bullshit to someone else please.

Yes, I see you learned some interesting words on the playground.

Now for real grown up communication, let me spell it out. This was a topic of many polls, talkshows, articles, etc. 326 people is a reasonable sample, BUT ONLY if it is a RANDOM set. You make it clear you were polling people in your school. These are people in a specific age group and furthermore, within a specific local with specific interests. This is something you should learn about in your classes if they are doing a decent job of teaching you sampling and polling techniques.

So, cute words aside, while yes, you are entitled to your opinion, but when you say "I am sure" and words to that effect, you are making an inference of proof. However, you don't have it. You have a faulty poll and apparently have not yet the education necessary to know it is faulty. So, consider this a contribution toward your education. Or dismiss it .. and well... good luck .

jonesthecurl wrote:

john9blue wrote:I didn't vote no, but my gut would tell me not to vote for them. Even though it's wrong to say that all atheists are immoral because they follow no religious laws, it's also wrong to say that atheists are every bit as moral as Christians. By "moral" I mean following codes of conduct commonly accepted in the Western world, and I'm not looking to get into a debate about "subjective morality" or whatever. Fact is that, even though Christians have a "handicap" to help them behave morally, and yes they still do bad things, they are as a whole more moral than atheists because of this handicap. Long story short, there's an understandable reason why atheists are the least liked group in America, and I'd vote for one despite their faith, but would definitely scrutinize them more carefully.

your evidence for the greater immorality of American Atheists being...?

While I absolutely agree that Atheists can be moral, I think it is often perceived that atheists are less moral. This perception alone would be a detriment in politics.