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Obama to maintain Bush era trial proceedings for detainees
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 11:50 am
by GabonX
President Barack Obama was today accused of a major U-turn after he decided to keep the controversial military commissions set up by George Bush to prosecute terror suspects.
The surprise White House announcement reversed Mr Obama’s campaign pledge to rely on America’s conventional criminal court system.
It was the president’s second U-turn this week after he changed his mind and pledged to try and block the court-ordered release of damning photographs showing US soldiers abusing prisoners.
Last night’s move led to an outcry from shocked human rights campaigners who thought Mr Obama intended to dismantle the terror tribunals after calling them ‘an enormous failure’ during last year’s presidential campaign.
In one of his first acts as president, Mr Obama obtained a 120-day suspension of the military commissions established at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba that was seen as the death knell for one of the Bush administration’s key platforms in the war on terror.
He is expected to ask for an additional 120-day delay in nine pending cases to revamp the trials.
Mr Obama is asking US Congress to expand the rights of defendants to ban evidence gained from torture or cruel treatment, limit the use of hearsay testimony and give detainees more rights to pick their own lawyers.
He wants some defendants to face trial in the civilian court system.
But aides said the president now plans to retain the Bush administration’s military commissions to try a smaller number of about 20 terror suspects.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... rials.htmlMaybe he's finally getting it...
There is more to the article if you follow the link.
Re: Obama to maintain Bush era trial proceedings for detainees
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 12:56 pm
by thegreekdog
Maybe he's finally NOT getting it. Ridiculous. He should be ashamed of himself, not just for lying during the campaign, but now for violating rights.
Seriously, I thought that at least President Obama would be socially liberal; but now he throws that out. If this continues, he might be the least like thegreekdog politically of any president (excepting GW Bush) - fiscally liberal, socially conservative. Ugh, the worst of both worlds.
Re: Obama to maintain Bush era trial proceedings for detainees
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 8:42 pm
by captain.crazy
thegreekdog wrote:Maybe he's finally NOT getting it. Ridiculous. He should be ashamed of himself, not just for lying during the campaign, but now for violating rights.
Seriously, I thought that at least President Obama would be socially liberal; but now he throws that out. If this continues, he might be the least like thegreekdog politically of any president (excepting GW Bush) - fiscally liberal, socially conservative. Ugh, the worst of both worlds.
He is a totalitarian dictator... He gets plausible deniability because he didn't know a shred of what he knows now. But that should only further the notion that he, like all of his predecessors, do not have the balls to stand up to their masters and actually change the country. He is the biggest thief we have had yet.
I love president bashing... is that a hate crime yet!
Re: Obama to maintain Bush era trial proceedings for detainees
Posted: Fri May 15, 2009 9:15 pm
by nesterdude
thegreekdog wrote:Maybe he's finally NOT getting it. Ridiculous. He should be ashamed of himself, not just for lying during the campaign, but now for violating rights.
Seriously, I thought that at least President Obama would be socially liberal; but now he throws that out. If this continues, he might be the least like thegreekdog politically of any president (excepting GW Bush) - fiscally liberal, socially conservative. Ugh, the worst of both worlds.
LMAO Che Gurerra from Philadelphia, uh do I smell D bag hipster?
Re: Obama to maintain Bush era trial proceedings for detainees
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 6:21 am
by brooksieb
Re: Obama to maintain Bush era trial proceedings for detainees
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 6:57 am
by Haggis_McMutton
Is it me or do conservatives use way more smilies than liberals around here?
A study is in order.
Re: Obama to maintain Bush era trial proceedings for detainees
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 7:03 am
by CrazyAnglican
Hm
We'll certainly have to look into that
won't we?
Re: Obama to maintain Bush era trial proceedings for detainees
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 7:56 am
by PLAYER57832
thegreekdog wrote:Maybe he's finally NOT getting it. Ridiculous. He should be ashamed of himself, not just for lying during the campaign, but now for violating rights.
Seriously, I thought that at least President Obama would be socially liberal; but now he throws that out. If this continues, he might be the least like thegreekdog politically of any president (excepting GW Bush) - fiscally liberal, socially conservative. Ugh, the worst of both worlds.
He is reinstituting them, but is reviewing the rules. So, they won't necessarily be the same as under Bush. Specifically, they are supposed to be getting some real representation and so forth. Also, he is not planning on the commissions for all prisoners, only a few. And, part of the reason is because they have some truly dangerous men who, due both to Bush screw ups (failures to collect evidence, etc in a manner that could be used in a court of law) simply cannot be tried in a civilian court now. A military commission may be the only real option if we don't want those people released or some classified information revealed.
As for the "socially conservative" bit... He was not given a clean playing field or slate. Once you muddy a pond and kill most of the fish off, draining it might be the best option for restoration.
Re: Obama to maintain Bush era trial proceedings for detainees
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 10:07 am
by daddy1gringo
I can't prove this, but one explanation may be that as President, Obama has access to some information that makes it clear that the military tribunals are necessary.
I remember in the late 70s when Ayatollah Khomeni's people took over the U.S. embassy in Tehran, the news media was accusing the Carter Administration of being too secretive because they wouldn't publish the names of the Embassy personnel. Later we found out that to list the names would have doomed many of them because they were in the process of being smuggled out as Canadians by the Canadian embassy.
There is a reason some information is not shared with the general public, Sometimes critics are talking through their hats without that information, but the White House cannot defend itself for the same reason that the information was secret in the first place.
Re: Obama to maintain Bush era trial proceedings for detainees
Posted: Sat May 16, 2009 10:32 am
by PLAYER57832
daddy1gringo wrote:I can't prove this, but one explanation may be that as President, Obama has access to some information that makes it clear that the military tribunals are necessary.
You don't have to guess. This is exactly what has been said. Revealing the information on some detainees (roughly 20 from what I hear) would not be possible in a civil court or at least there is enough of a doubt that the administration does not want to take the chance..
For example, it has been said that because the Bush rules were so loose, no one took the care to obtain and collect evidence in a way that could be used publically. That is, there might have been witnesses and so forth, but they were not secured, their testimony was not obtained (people might now be deceased), etc. OR, it could be that the information came from operatives who cannot reveal their identities in public court.... etc.
That, plus the fact that if those folks were tortured, and it seems pretty clear they were, then much of evidence against them, even if not actually obtained through torture, might be thrown out in a civil court.
Even so, the real point is that these folks will still be getting a trial with representation and reasonable rules, even if not those of a civilian court. Under Bush, that was not the case.
Re: Obama to maintain Bush era trial proceedings for detainees
Posted: Sun May 17, 2009 12:26 pm
by thegreekdog
nesterdude wrote:thegreekdog wrote:Maybe he's finally NOT getting it. Ridiculous. He should be ashamed of himself, not just for lying during the campaign, but now for violating rights.
Seriously, I thought that at least President Obama would be socially liberal; but now he throws that out. If this continues, he might be the least like thegreekdog politically of any president (excepting GW Bush) - fiscally liberal, socially conservative. Ugh, the worst of both worlds.
LMAO Che Gurerra from Philadelphia, uh do I smell D bag hipster?
Look closer at the avatar little friend. If anything, I'm making fun of hipsters.
Re: Obama to maintain Bush era trial proceedings for detainees
Posted: Mon May 18, 2009 3:15 pm
by nesterdude
thegreekdog wrote:nesterdude wrote:thegreekdog wrote:Maybe he's finally NOT getting it. Ridiculous. He should be ashamed of himself, not just for lying during the campaign, but now for violating rights.
Seriously, I thought that at least President Obama would be socially liberal; but now he throws that out. If this continues, he might be the least like thegreekdog politically of any president (excepting GW Bush) - fiscally liberal, socially conservative. Ugh, the worst of both worlds.
LMAO Che Gurerra from Philadelphia, uh do I smell D bag hipster?
Look closer at the avatar little friend. If anything, I'm making fun of hipsters.
Now that's friggin funny, I retract sir, I retract
