Conquer Club

In today's world, it's common for Europe's achievements to be looked down on and frowned at, possibly because of the media, free speech and the transitioning of most Western governments into democracies. But is it really fair?

All groups and cultures are guilty of some kind of crimes throughout their history, and humans are inherently evil in nature (not all humans are evil, but I mean everyone is capable of evil given the right circumstances). A common part of Europe's past that's mocked, is colonialism. Let me start out by saying colonialism brought more good then harm. Of course some people will say that colonialism was the source of many atrocities, and it allowed many nations to be stripped of their wealth, or had their citizens reduced to slavery. While its true, the British, Spanish, French, Dutch, etc. caused much hardships for the people living in their colonies, they also brought peace and stability to them, and even today imperial (in a business sense anyways) ambitions are helping to industrialise parts of the world that would otherwise still be in the dark ages.

A main source of the white mans (not trying to be racist, but this does apply directly to ones skin colour) mockery, is the slave trade. Hundreds of thousands and possibly millions of Africans were uprooted from their homes and forced into slavery. What one leaves out though, is that nearly all the slaves were captured from by other Africans and sold to the Europeans. The slaves were either captured in the tribal warfare that was common amongst the natives, or else were guilty of some sort of crime and if not sold into slavery, would otherwise receive death, or be forced into slavery by his/her fellow Africans. Europe in no way started the slave trade, or played anymore of a role then any other group, what sets them apart is their wealth and ability to do more then other groups could.

This brings me to another point, Europe's wealth. Although gotten at the expense of others, I believe that having much of the worlds wealth centralised in European colonial powers did more good then bad. For example, the Crusades; without the revenue brought in from the conquered Arabian lands, the renaissance would've never been possible and the world would've stayed in the dark ages for who knows how much longer. Another example is the industrial revolution, if England and the rest of Europe weren't able to bring in enough foreign supplies to build and fuel their factories, cottage industry and serfdom would've remained a common way of life for that much longer. If the worlds wealth had remained in the hands of its native warlords, progress would be much, much slower.

I believe that now we're starting to redistribute our worlds resources evenly, this is evidenced by the break-up of the Worlds colonial Empires post World War 1. Whether linked or not, the worlds situation has gotten much worse, the rise of Hitler for example, claimed the lives of millions, and the turmoil in the Middle East is a current example of Europe losing its power throughout the world. Colonialism brought stability and progress, its obvious that without an external force keeping things in check, most countries go to shit.

If you'd like to argue any of my points, then go ahead, please keep this free of spam though. I don't believe this is racist or very offensive, but if anyone has valid problems I'll try to fix or reword my writing to fix them. I'll try to add more later, its getting late though.

So... because there was slave trade on a huige scale which created a further reason for going to war against other tribes and then selling the prisoners, slave trade is morally not so bad as it's been thought to be?
I'll think about it.

What does Hitler have to do with colonies? That's truly beyond me.

MeDeFe wrote:So... because there was slave trade on a huige scale which created a further reason for going to war against other tribes and then selling the prisoners, slave trade is morally not so bad as it's been thought to be?
I'll think about it.

What does Hitler have to do with colonies? That's truly beyond me.

Germany used to have coloneys. They lost them in WWI. This, among other things, started WWII.

Jenos Ridan wrote:

MeDeFe wrote:So... because there was slave trade on a huige scale which created a further reason for going to war against other tribes and then selling the prisoners, slave trade is morally not so bad as it's been thought to be?
I'll think about it.

What does Hitler have to do with colonies? That's truly beyond me.

Germany used to have coloneys. They lost them in WWI. This, among other things, started WWII.

I'm sure he knows that because he's from Germany.. Idiot.

A small one somewhere in East Africa and a few islands in the pacific that noone else cared about. Hitler hardly came into power over those.

Skittles! wrote:

Jenos Ridan wrote:

MeDeFe wrote:So... because there was slave trade on a huige scale which created a further reason for going to war against other tribes and then selling the prisoners, slave trade is morally not so bad as it's been thought to be?
I'll think about it.

What does Hitler have to do with colonies? That's truly beyond me.

Germany used to have coloneys. They lost them in WWI. This, among other things, started WWII.

I'm sure he knows that because he's from Germany.. Idiot.

I did not know that. If I had, I wouldn't have made that mistake.

Cheers!

What a brilliant post by cawck mongler. I hadn't realised most of his points, but I did know that Britain's economy went down the toilet after we lost our colonies.

Here's another point:
Would Africa still be suffering from poverty, civil war and the like, if it was still owned by European countries? I think not!

^ now that is an interesting post, if the colonisation had not occurred then obviously Africa wouldn't be so bad now, but what if african countries had remained subservient to European powers?

Jehan wrote:^ now that is an interesting post, if the colonisation had not occurred then obviously Africa wouldn't be so bad now, but what if african countries had remained subservient to European powers?

Is it not likely that we would still have things like the apartheid?

I agree that we probably could have made the area a far better place by staying economically, but socially?

I dont belive the European powers should still own the African nations, but they should have stayed behind and helped them out after they got independance, rather then letting them run it by themselves.

Titanic wrote:I dont belive the European powers should still own the African nations, but they should have stayed behind and helped them out after they got independance, rather then letting them run it by themselves.

I believe they tried. But the countries thought ''YES WE ARE FREE TO DO WHAT WE WANT'' and just went for it. Often adopting bad ideas such as communism and inward looking trade policies like india did right after we left..... we all know that didnt work out too well for anyone.....

NOHIBBERTNO wrote:

Titanic wrote:I dont belive the European powers should still own the African nations, but they should have stayed behind and helped them out after they got independance, rather then letting them run it by themselves.

I believe they tried. But the countries thought ''YES WE ARE FREE TO DO WHAT WE WANT'' and just went for it. Often adopting bad ideas such as communism and inward looking trade policies like india did right after we left..... we all know that didnt work out too well for anyone.....

How is that a bad idea? It's not as bad as Capitalism.

Skittles! wrote:

NOHIBBERTNO wrote:

Titanic wrote:I dont belive the European powers should still own the African nations, but they should have stayed behind and helped them out after they got independance, rather then letting them run it by themselves.

I believe they tried. But the countries thought ''YES WE ARE FREE TO DO WHAT WE WANT'' and just went for it. Often adopting bad ideas such as communism and inward looking trade policies like india did right after we left..... we all know that didnt work out too well for anyone.....

How is that a bad idea? It's not as bad as Capitalism.

okay so that wasnt politically correct and i apologize, they adopted different strategies which at that time had poor results. Better?

NOHIBBERTNO wrote:

Skittles! wrote:

NOHIBBERTNO wrote:

Titanic wrote:I dont belive the European powers should still own the African nations, but they should have stayed behind and helped them out after they got independance, rather then letting them run it by themselves.

I believe they tried. But the countries thought ''YES WE ARE FREE TO DO WHAT WE WANT'' and just went for it. Often adopting bad ideas such as communism and inward looking trade policies like india did right after we left..... we all know that didnt work out too well for anyone.....

How is that a bad idea? It's not as bad as Capitalism.

okay so that wasnt politically correct and i apologize, they adopted different strategies which at that time had poor results. Better?

Yep. you may carry on with your arguement with colonisation now.

cawck mongler wrote:In today's world, it's common for Europe's achievements to be looked down on and frowned at, possibly because of the media, free speech and the transitioning of most Western governments into democracies. But is it really fair?

Given the tens (and probably hundreds) of millions of people who have been killed by European colonialism, either directly or indirectly, deliberately or otherwise, over the last five centuries, it probably wouldn't be surprising if people were reticent about trumpeting the dominance of European civilization over all other forms.

I'm just surprised that you think Europe's achievements are "looked down on" - this reminds me of a pronouncement that the British PM, Gordon Brown, made before he became leader - that "Britain should stop apologising for its empire." Neither the British nor any other Europeans have ever "apologised" for their empires in any meaningful sense.

Or are you objecting to the fact that Westerners have gradually stopped seeing themselves as morally, racially, or otherwise, superior to peoples in the rest of the world over the last century?

cawck mongler wrote:A main source of the white mans (not trying to be racist, but this does apply directly to ones skin colour) mockery, is the slave trade. Hundreds of thousands and possibly millions of Africans were uprooted from their homes and forced into slavery. What one leaves out though, is that nearly all the slaves were captured from by other Africans and sold to the Europeans. The slaves were either captured in the tribal warfare that was common amongst the natives, or else were guilty of some sort of crime and if not sold into slavery, would otherwise receive death, or be forced into slavery by his/her fellow Africans. Europe in no way started the slave trade, or played anymore of a role then any other group, what sets them apart is their wealth and ability to do more then other groups could.

Not hundreds of thousands, not possibly millions, but definitely tens of millions of Africans were displaced. Also, most informed people are well aware that most of the African slaves were handed over willingly by other Africans. I'm not clear how this absolves the Europeans of anything?

Minister Masket wrote:What a brilliant post by cawck mongler. I hadn't realised most of his points, but I did know that Britain's economy went down the toilet after we lost our colonies.

Britain's economy went "down the toilet" after fighting in two world wars it couldn't afford. Decolonization happened afterwards. Since WWII the British economy has constantly, (periods of stop-go notwithstanding), grown ever since. For the last 20 years, its average GDP growth has been about 2-2.5% pa.

So what are you talking about?

The word you're looking for is pussification (to be pussified)

Well, cawck, you just did a pretty good job of bastardizing Western history and culture in that post, but you could have taken it a step further, been more blatant, thrown out the N-bomb or something.

.....Not to mention all of the ruling PINKOES such as Lenin and Mao....death and destruction!!

I agree cawck, european history and culture is being bastardised. People in europe have forgotten their roots, to the point that numpties like stopper can be spawned.

Norse wrote:.....Not to mention all of the ruling PINKOES such as Lenin and Mao....death and destruction!!

I agree cawck, european history and culture is being bastardised. People in europe have forgotten their roots, to the point that numpties like stopper can be spawned.

I'm with you guys (Norse and cawk) on this one, people of the Western world have started to basically criminalize what the Europeans and Americans have done in the past, which would include just about everything. It truly saddens me that many seem to have lost their pride in their nation's or country's history. I'm not saying that all things that happened in the past were good, yet many good things came out of it. To many people just don't seem to realize this.

I'll only say one thing about that:

Canada is free and they didn't have to fight a revolution.

vtmarik wrote:I'll only say one thing about that:

Canada is free and they didn't have to fight a revolution.

Thats not what the iroquois would say....

J/K, I couldnt give a fook how many savages you murdered...

j/k again, they arent savages, but I still couldnt give a f*ck...

j/k I do really care, I just dont think they deserved reparations...

j/k they deserve every last penny of canadian tax dollars.....

Damn, I'm starting to become a pinko....

Norse wrote:

vtmarik wrote:I'll only say one thing about that:

Canada is free and they didn't have to fight a revolution.

Thats not what the iroquis would say....

J/K, I couldnt give a fook how many savages you murdered...

j/k again, they arent savages, but I still couldnt give a f*ck...

j/k I do really care, I just dont think they deserved reparations...

j/k they deserve every last penny of canadian tax dollars.....

Damn, I'm starting to become a pinko....

I murdered? I'm Cherokee you dope.

vtmarik wrote:I murdered? I'm Cherokee you dope.

MURDERER!


How many french people have you murdered? 5? 10?

or maybe just the 1?

Norse wrote:

vtmarik wrote:I murdered? I'm Cherokee you dope.

MURDERER!


How many french people have you murdered? 5? 10?

or maybe just the 1?

Hes been scalping all the white men...