Conquer Club

Dukasaur wrote:

GreecePwns wrote:

a6mzero wrote:Just because the PLO declared itself a state( of which most of the land it claims is occupied by Israel )doesn't make it a state. Just because the UN recognizes it doesn't make it a state. The UN is basically a body which is always quick to condemn Israel but never says shit about the mass bloodletting and dictatorships in the rest of the region.

Are you fucking kidding me.

The UN is the only reason Israel exists.

You are woefully ignorant of history.

Actually, he's perfectly correct.

Let's talk some Realpolitik, not your CNN fairy tales.

Palestine was promised to the Jews in 1916, before the British had even captured it.

Gweedo wrote:OK, let us say that the Palestinians are in the right...who they going to get to enforce it?

Dukusaur wrote:Blaming the people who are defending themselves ...

saxitoxin wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:

GreecePwns wrote:

a6mzero wrote:Just because the PLO declared itself a state( of which most of the land it claims is occupied by Israel )doesn't make it a state. Just because the UN recognizes it doesn't make it a state. The UN is basically a body which is always quick to condemn Israel but never says shit about the mass bloodletting and dictatorships in the rest of the region.

Are you fucking kidding me.

The UN is the only reason Israel exists.

You are woefully ignorant of history.

Actually, he's perfectly correct.

Let's talk some Realpolitik, not your CNN fairy tales.

Palestine was promised to the Jews in 1916, before the British had even captured it.

You could have saved yourself the rant and just stopped here.

Palestine wasn't the Britishes to promise. The End.

Dukasaur wrote:

saxitoxin wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:

GreecePwns wrote:

a6mzero wrote:Just because the PLO declared itself a state( of which most of the land it claims is occupied by Israel )doesn't make it a state. Just because the UN recognizes it doesn't make it a state. The UN is basically a body which is always quick to condemn Israel but never says shit about the mass bloodletting and dictatorships in the rest of the region.

Are you fucking kidding me.

The UN is the only reason Israel exists.

You are woefully ignorant of history.

Actually, he's perfectly correct.

Let's talk some Realpolitik, not your CNN fairy tales.

Palestine was promised to the Jews in 1916, before the British had even captured it.

You could have saved yourself the rant and just stopped here.

Palestine wasn't the Britishes to promise. The End.

They took it from the Ottoman.

saxitoxin wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:

saxitoxin wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:

GreecePwns wrote:

a6mzero wrote:Just because the PLO declared itself a state( of which most of the land it claims is occupied by Israel )doesn't make it a state. Just because the UN recognizes it doesn't make it a state. The UN is basically a body which is always quick to condemn Israel but never says shit about the mass bloodletting and dictatorships in the rest of the region.

Are you fucking kidding me.

The UN is the only reason Israel exists.

You are woefully ignorant of history.

Actually, he's perfectly correct.

Let's talk some Realpolitik, not your CNN fairy tales.

Palestine was promised to the Jews in 1916, before the British had even captured it.

You could have saved yourself the rant and just stopped here.

Palestine wasn't the Britishes to promise. The End.

They took it from the Ottoman.

Great. So if military acumen is the standard of law, you have no objection to someone attempting to take it back then. boom-boom-boom

There, thread solved.

Dukasaur wrote: People who pick a fight, lose, and then demand a rematch over and over again, aren't doing themselves any favours. If in 1948 the Arabs had accepted the loss and made a good-faith effort to live alongside the Jews, instead of fighting a 65-year guerrila war, they might have a nice-looking country by now.

Dukasaur wrote:I believe when someone loses a fight

• * IRL you can't just perma-ban your opponent

GabonX wrote:At least we can stop pretending that BBS has a balanced view of events. It looks like he's taken the false narratives on Israel hook, line, and sinker.

While "Wow, just wow" is usually followed by highbrow and original thought, he's followed it up with the usual anti Israel arguments that are impossible to verify. Ignore that the Arabs openly call for genocide and have for decades, and the fact that the things he posted are based more on accusation than veritable facts. Israel is bad because the Arabs are bad, because there always has to be some middle ground that turns common sense on it's head.

We all know the narrative that Israel never tried to make peace with the Palestinians, always stealing land and what not. It's not like the exact opposite could be true...

And of course we know that Israel likes to gun down their neighbors whenever they get the chance, and US ships too for shits and giggles. The Arabs are totally righteous in their defensive actions against Israel, the land stealing aggressor, as exemplified by the high standards of living and social justice in every Arab nation. Israel is the odd man out, the sick one, the cancer, and they have no legitimate concerns in regards to the defense of their people...

Also, if a separate vaguely affiliated group of Christian Arabs happens to massacre Muslims in Lebanon, blame the Jews for that too. They're all genocidal land thieves and you can't trust them or the people who think they deserve to live in peace.

Dukasaur wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote: Honestly, when it comes to coercion and violence, any state can do it--regardless of its democratic status. Autocratic states are less constrained than democratic ones in threatening to use violence against their own citizens--but all states still collect their taxes at essentially the point of a gun. The flag-waving, 'social' democracy point isn't impressive.

Of course, all government is inherently exploitative and evil. That goes without saying. Unfortunately, it's one of those things that you can't abolish until everyone else does. If your neighbour has a bull mastiff, you have to get a bull mastiff, or you will be defenseless when your neighbour neighbour gets drunk and decides to sic his mastiff on you. Ditto with governments. As long as your neighbours have a government, you have to have one. So, as long as we're stuck with this evil institution, we may as well seek to moderate the damage done. That's what social democracy does. It's "harm reduction" in the modern parlance. It doesn't eliminate the evils of government, but it certainly mitigates their magnitude.

After 65 years of it, you really have to ask who's defending and who's being the aggressor. Who has repeatedly refused to credibly commit to a peace treaty? Shall we point to the party which continues its settlement program after agreeing that it would stop? You do realize that you're talking about a country which has directly tortured a majority of 1000s of innocent people while subjugating and dominating millions, right?

Those are easy questions to answer. The Arabs have kept this war going for 65 years. They should have accepted their loss in 1948 in the spirit of fair play. They were offered half of Palestine, they refused the offer and demanded double or nothing, they rolled the dice and lost. After that they should have either settled down and become loyal citizens, or packed up their shit and moved on with their lives elsewhere. That war would be a distant memory by now. Instead of either of those options, they chose to move just across the border, turn their entire population into a paramilitary organisation, and plot revenge. That, and nothing else, has turned what should have been a long-forgotten war into a war that continues year after year with no end in sight.

The Arabs have refused to credibly commit to a peace treaty. That isn't to say that there aren't some Arabs who don't want peace. I'm sure many do. But the man on the street is not significant in the equation, and any Arab who starts talking peace with Israel, is gunned down. King Abdullah I of Jordan talked peace with Israel, and he was gunned down. Anwar Sadat talked peace with Israel, and he was gunned down. Pretty much any Arab leader who has ever talked peace is dead.

Also, notice how you framed it into a "fight for survival" while neglecting to mention how this fight started. This is just like the "what would you do if Hamas rockets had a <0.01% chance of landing were landing in your backyard??" question. It misses the point.

I'm very cognizant of how the war started. And it doesn't miss the point, not for most people. Most people have never lived in a warzone. It takes graphic imagery to make them understand what is at stake.

However, here's perhaps a better example: What if there was a colony of diehard Germans still camped out at Verdun, who refused to accept that they lost, and every now and again would start shelling some French villages and scream "we will make France run with blood!" How do you think that would be received?

BigBallinStalin wrote:Do you really understand the history of Israel?

Yes, thank you.

Dukasaur wrote: Those are easy questions to answer. The Arabs have kept this war going for 65 years. They should have accepted their loss in 1948 in the spirit of fair play.

Army of GOD wrote:

Dukasaur wrote: Those are easy questions to answer. The Arabs have kept this war going for 65 years. They should have accepted their loss in 1948 in the spirit of fair play.

ITT: Dukasaur compares war and mass death to a game of one-on-one in the driveway.

a6mzero wrote:Israel ain't folding up shop and abandoning the land get over it. Saxi u can continue to write 1000 times a night about your beloved Palestinians it ain't changing a thing.

a6mzero wrote:Israel ain't folding up shop and abandoning the land get over it.

a6mzero wrote: Saxi u can continue to write 1000 times a night about your beloved Palestinians it ain't changing a thing.

Gweeedo wrote:That is my point: really, who is going to back them...\

a6mzero wrote:Whatever Israel will not fall.

a6mzero wrote:Israel ain't folding up shop and abandoning the land get over it.

a6mzero wrote:Saxi u can continue to write 1000 times a night about your beloved Palestinians it ain't changing a thing.

saxitoxin wrote:Bible Thumpers More Likely to Support Israhell

While majorities across the whole world are opposed to Israhell, positive polling for The Abominition remains high in 2 places: the USA and Israel.

1 - But in the USA the entity is most loudly supported by holy rollers, according to a new poll.


http://www.gallup.com/poll/174266/relig ... aelis.aspx

2 - At the same time, Americans are becoming less religious.

and so ...

1+2 = Your Days are Numbered

BigBallinStalin wrote:

Gweeedo wrote:That is my point: really, who is going to back them...\

There's this thing called "morality." If we all thought like a6, Dukasaur, or you, then we'd have no logical defense against agreeing with white supremacists, slavery, apartheid, and Nazi Germany.

Good luck with that dilemma.

Gweeedo wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:

Gweeedo wrote:That is my point: really, who is going to back them...\

There's this thing called "morality." If we all thought like a6, Dukasaur, or you, then we'd have no logical defense against agreeing with white supremacists, slavery, apartheid, and Nazi Germany.

Good luck with that dilemma.

The morality of an action is founded in the freedom of that principle, by virtue of which it is in the agent's power, having all things ready and requisite to the performance of an action, either to perform or not perform it.