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Re: Known abusers of the system
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:26 pm
by detlef
owenshooter wrote:detlef wrote:Owen, will you be satisfied when a few weeks from now the vast majority of people's ratings are in the mid 4s?
i had perfect feedback and never left anyone a negative. that should say enough.-0
What does that have to do with anything. The point being made here is that if everyone or nearly everyone leaves 5s then everyone or nearly everyone will have ratings at or near 5. That would imply that the vast majority, perhaps 90% of CC's population will be "excellent" by definition of the 5 star system. What good is that?
Re: Known abusers of the system
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:27 pm
by edbeard
zimmah wrote:Timminz wrote:zimmah wrote: the rating is just nothing more than a random star generator.
Sure. In the first 3 days. Eventually it'll average out, and will be a decent system for the most part. Granted, the average will probably not be 3, but more likely 4, or so. But once it's had some time to gather more ratings, you will be able to use it to gauge how someone is compared to the average, whatever that may work out to be.
yes that's exactly the point, everyone will have 4's or 5's or something in between (4.5/4.3/4.6, whatever) and there will be no way to tell if someone is any good or not. so hurray we're all excellent and noone is 'average' (wow CC has a godlike community then if we're all that good
) and the whole rating system is nothing more then a bunch of people with 4.5 stars or so, and it does nothing more then showing
*4.5 because the numbers don't have any meaning at all, since averone has pretty much the same rating. hmmm what a waste of time.. you can't even read a comment with that.
because giving everyone threes would solve this problem. we would've have everyone with a ratings of 2.8, 2.9, 3.0, 3.1 or 3.2
Re: Known abusers of the system
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:30 pm
by owenshooter
detlef wrote:owenshooter wrote:detlef wrote:Owen, will you be satisfied when a few weeks from now the vast majority of people's ratings are in the mid 4s?
i had perfect feedback and never left anyone a negative. that should say enough.-0
What does that have to do with anything. The point being made here is that if everyone or nearly everyone leaves 5s then everyone or nearly everyone will have ratings at or near 5. That would imply that the vast majority, perhaps 90% of CC's population will be "excellent" by definition of the 5 star system. What good is that?
it has everything to do with it. the stars have replaced feedback. i never received a negative and i never left a negative. if i didn't like someone in a game, i just didn't give them feedback. so, i fully expect to have a high rating... and guess what, the people that are abusive in game chat, deadbeat, are bad partners, etc, are going to have lower ratings... shocker.. just like you could tell a player by their feedback and rank, you will be able to tell a player by their stars and rank... in theory, that is.. if it all shakes out.-0
Re: Known abusers of the system
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:33 pm
by Appalachian
White Moose wrote:I wouldn't call that abusing, everyone has diffrent opinions on how their opponents plays. Perhaps those 2 just feels that if they just play a clean and good game that they deserve a 5've.
I could not agree more... Especially if I have played them before. If they played a good game, took quick turns, fought well and showed good sportsmanship, then they deserve a 5...........
Re: Known abusers of the system
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:38 pm
by edbeard
here's a true abuser
http://www.conquerclub.com/player.php?mode=ratings2&username=plurplewcaclimbing certainly had horrible attitude, attendance and fair play in those games. His rating had nothing to do with him winning both of those games.
I think pointing out 'abusers' is stupid. But, I certainly don't get zimmah's obsession with finding people who give out high ratings instead of wrongly low ones.
Re: Known abusers of the system
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:44 pm
by GoVegan
Ok Zimmeh...
I am sure its close to 95% of the people on this site don't read the forums, so this thread isn't really going to get anyone anywhere.
I give mostly 5's. The reason behind this is because if a player turns up every turn and plays that is the best he can do right? I can't think of any way to really 'cheat' so fair play is always up there too... as for attitude 99% of people I play are polite and friendly.
Why do you give someone a 3 for attendance when they show up every turn? What do they need to do to get a 5?
I think you should let everyone do what they want and instead of whining about other people on the forum contribute to the site somehow... start a tourney, build a map, help out new players.
To each their own.
Re: Known abusers of the system
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:45 pm
by detlef
owenshooter wrote:detlef wrote:owenshooter wrote:detlef wrote:Owen, will you be satisfied when a few weeks from now the vast majority of people's ratings are in the mid 4s?
i had perfect feedback and never left anyone a negative. that should say enough.-0
What does that have to do with anything. The point being made here is that if everyone or nearly everyone leaves 5s then everyone or nearly everyone will have ratings at or near 5. That would imply that the vast majority, perhaps 90% of CC's population will be "excellent" by definition of the 5 star system. What good is that?
it has everything to do with it. the stars have replaced feedback. i never received a negative and i never left a negative. if i didn't like someone in a game, i just didn't give them feedback. so, i fully expect to have a high rating... and guess what, the people that are abusive in game chat, deadbeat, are bad partners, etc, are going to have lower ratings... shocker.. just like you could tell a player by their feedback and rank, you will be able to tell a player by their stars and rank... in theory, that is.. if it all shakes out.-0
Well, for starters, it won't shake out. Guys like you are giving out 5s or nothing, zimmah's giving out 3s to pretty much everyone, and guys like me are simply ignoring the whole silly process. Hell, sounds like some will get 2s for attendance in games they never missed a turn. So, how do we learn anything? Edbeards right, of course, it's no better if everyone has the same score right around 3 than it does that everyone has 4.8, we'll all just feel better about each other.
I've asked this before, why does it matter? I buy on e-bay and understand how important feedback is there. People are trying to buy and sell goods and are dependent on feedback. Judging by what you seem to be advocating, anyone with a score below 4 will be pretty crappy but what difference does it really make?
Re: Known abusers of the system
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:56 pm
by zimmah
owenshooter wrote:zimmah wrote:now given this fact, how the hell can 90% of the comminty be excellent?
there you got your answer! and this is not a personal opinion, it's FACTS.
yet another made up percentage... i love when you do that... show me how you got 90%... please...-0
p.s.-girlfriend or wife comments are out of line. but, zimmah, everyone on this site that has a hot chick avatar is generally the person in the avatar pic. *SNICKER*
*edit-i spelled "please" incorrectly... you all know i'm a spelling nazi*
ehm, as stated in my profile, it's my GF. and what's wrong with having my GF in my avatar? i just like to look at her picture more then looking at my own. (not that i'm that ugly but i don't think i come close to her either way.) anyways that's all offtopic.
yes the 90% is made up but you're missing the point. if nearly everyone gives out 5's to nearly everyone, then the whole system makes no sence, like i said, here's the defenition of both average (3 stars) and excelent (5 stars)
tell me if you can see the difference.
3stars:
average
adjective
1. Of moderately good quality but less than excellent: acceptable, adequate, all right, common, decent, fair, fairish, goodish, moderate, passable, respectable, satisfactory, sufficient, tolerable. Informal OK, tidy. See good/bad.
2. Commonly encountered: common, commonplace, general, normal, ordinary, typical, usual. See surprise/expect.
3. Being of no special quality or type: common, commonplace, cut-and-dried, formulaic, garden, garden-variety, indifferent, mediocre, ordinary, plain, routine, run-of-the-mill, standard, stock, undistinguished, unexceptional, unremarkable. See good/bad, usual/unusual.
http://www.answers.com/average5 stars:
Dictionary:
excellent
(ĕk'sə-lənt) pronunciation
adj.
1. Of the highest or finest quality; exceptionally good of its kind.
2. Archaic. Superior.
http://www.answers.com/topic/excellentnow that's quite a difference isn't it?
let me highlight it for you
http://awurl.com/fllqrq80531
Re: Known abusers of the system
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:00 pm
by owenshooter
zimmah wrote:broken record
ooohhh, now i get it!!! after 237 posts by you, all declaring the same thing, i finally get it!!!-0
p.s.-yes, that is sarcasm.
Re: Known abusers of the system
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:04 pm
by Timminz
zimmah wrote:Timminz wrote:zimmah wrote: the rating is just nothing more than a random star generator.
Sure. In the first 3 days. Eventually it'll average out, and will be a decent system for the most part. Granted, the average will probably not be 3, but more likely 4, or so. But once it's had some time to gather more ratings, you will be able to use it to gauge how someone is compared to the average, whatever that may work out to be.
yes that's exactly the point, everyone will have 4's or 5's or something in between (4.5/4.3/4.6, whatever) and there will be no way to tell if someone is any good or not. so hurray we're all excellent and noone is 'average'
You're missing my point. If the average rating given is a 4, then over time, you will be able to judge people based on how far above or below that they are. You can even look at who rated them, and check what they generally give as ratings. If someone got a 4 from a player who generally leaves 5's, you can assume there was something to be desired in that category, or if they have a 4 from someone who generally leaves 3's, you'll know they were better than average. The same thing was true with the old system. Take, for example, two players, with 1 neg each (and say, 8 pos). Now, let's say one of those negs is from someone who leaves them for someone in half their games, while the other was one of only 2 or 3 the person giving it, has ever given. With 30 seconds of research, you could (and will still be able to, once this system has been in place for a little longer) easily determine the difference in attitude between two players with the same feedback/rating.
I'm gonna stick to judging people based on my experience with them, not other people's, but those who wish to judge players without playing them first will still have that option available.
Re: Known abusers of the system
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:06 pm
by zimmah
detlef wrote: zimmah's giving out 3s to pretty much everyone,
duh, go read the dictionary. i haven't really seen much people behaving out of the ordinairy. so 3 stars. like it's supposed to be
and at the one above me, 4 isn't average, it's
above average
Re: Known abusers of the system
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:11 pm
by Incandenza
No matter what, people are making a value judgment. It's that simple.
At this point, I honestly can't tell if zimmah is trolling or if he's really that obtuse.
Re: Known abusers of the system
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:15 pm
by gloryordeath
zimmah wrote:jako wrote:i wouldnt say leaving mass 5s is abusing, maybe hes just a really easy rater.
it is
oh i see you only got 1 five and the rest were lower.
Re: Known abusers of the system
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:18 pm
by owenshooter
Incandenza wrote:No matter what, people are making a value judgment. It's that simple.
At this point, I honestly can't tell if zimmah is trolling or if he's really that obtuse.
BEYOND trolling. every thread about stars has his system plastered all over it.-0
Re: Known abusers of the system
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:19 pm
by Timminz
zimmah wrote:and at the one above me, 4 isn't average, it's above average
I'm not disagreeing with that, but it's been quite apparent that not everyone is going to treat it that way. So let's say half the players follow the guidelines, and give 3 as an average rating, while the other half only give less than 5 for less than acceptable performance. What you'll get, is an overall average of 4, and can base your prejudging of players on that. Just give it some time, then take a look at what the average rating GIVEN is, and then judge players based on their rating compared to that. Regardless of what SHOULD be average, it will be relatively easy to determine what the ACTUAL average is.
I'd like to note, that I am giving ratings based on 3 as an average. Most of the ratings I have left have been 4's and 5's though. This is due to the simple fact that I have gotten to know a lot of players here, play most of my games with players I know already, and continue to play with them because I consider the experience to be good to excellent. Hence, the good to excellent ratings.
Re: Known abusers of the system
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:21 pm
by detlef
zimmah wrote:detlef wrote: zimmah's giving out 3s to pretty much everyone,
duh, go read the dictionary. i haven't really seen much people behaving out of the ordinairy. so 3 stars. like it's supposed to be
and at the one above me, 4 isn't average, it's
above average
Wow, you're too fired up here. That wasn't meant as a knock, just something to point out how random these things are. Basically that you're going to give 3s to the same people owen is giving 5s. Very simple. Really, I'm more in agreement with you than you know. I understand why you feel 3s should be the norm, again I also just understand that you're going to be explaining yourself over and over and over again to people wondering what they did wrong. If you want that battle, have at it. I can certainly tell you've got stamina.
Re: Known abusers of the system
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:35 pm
by zimmah
Timminz wrote:zimmah wrote:and at the one above me, 4 isn't average, it's above average
I'm not disagreeing with that, but it's been quite apparent that not everyone is going to treat it that way. So let's say half the players follow the guidelines, and give 3 as an average rating, while the other half only give less than 5 for less than acceptable performance. What you'll get, is an overall average of 4, and can base your prejudging of players on that. Just give it some time, then take a look at what the average rating GIVEN is, and then judge players based on their rating compared to that. Regardless of what SHOULD be average, it will be relatively easy to determine what the ACTUAL average is.
I'd like to note, that I am giving ratings based on 3 as an average. Most of the ratings I have left have been 4's and 5's though. This is due to the simple fact that I have gotten to know a lot of players here, play most of my games with players I know already, and continue to play with them because I consider the experience to be good to excellent. Hence, the good to excellent ratings.
most of the ratings are based on the ratings they gave before they knew 3 was supposed to be average. and some people still see 5 as the average. but eventually this will get averaged out.
Re: Known abusers of the system
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:38 pm
by zimmah
Incandenza wrote:No matter what, people are making a value judgment. It's that simple.
At this point, I honestly can't tell if zimmah is trolling or if he's really that obtuse.
you are calling
me obtuse? don't make me laugh kid
Re: Known abusers of the system
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:39 pm
by zimmah
gloryordeath wrote:zimmah wrote:jako wrote:i wouldnt say leaving mass 5s is abusing, maybe hes just a really easy rater.
it is
oh i see you only got 1 five and the rest were lower.
actually i think my rating is still pretty good, as it's still way "above average" (even though the mayority of CC has at least the same ranking) and at least my 5 stars i didn't got from someone who leaves only 5's. so i'm happy with my stars as i think i earned them.
Re: Known abusers of the system
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:39 pm
by Timminz
zimmah wrote:Timminz wrote:zimmah wrote:and at the one above me, 4 isn't average, it's above average
I'm not disagreeing with that, but it's been quite apparent that not everyone is going to treat it that way. So let's say half the players follow the guidelines, and give 3 as an average rating, while the other half only give less than 5 for less than acceptable performance. What you'll get, is an overall average of 4, and can base your prejudging of players on that. Just give it some time, then take a look at what the average rating GIVEN is, and then judge players based on their rating compared to that. Regardless of what SHOULD be average, it will be relatively easy to determine what the ACTUAL average is.
I'd like to note, that I am giving ratings based on 3 as an average. Most of the ratings I have left have been 4's and 5's though. This is due to the simple fact that I have gotten to know a lot of players here, play most of my games with players I know already, and continue to play with them because I consider the experience to be good to excellent. Hence, the good to excellent ratings.
most of the ratings are based on the ratings they gave before they knew 3 was supposed to be average. and some people still see 5 as the average.
but eventually this will get averaged out.
I'm glad I could make myself clear. Now we're on the same page.
Re: Known abusers of the system
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:41 pm
by zimmah
Timminz wrote:zimmah wrote:Timminz wrote:zimmah wrote:and at the one above me, 4 isn't average, it's above average
I'm not disagreeing with that, but it's been quite apparent that not everyone is going to treat it that way. So let's say half the players follow the guidelines, and give 3 as an average rating, while the other half only give less than 5 for less than acceptable performance. What you'll get, is an overall average of 4, and can base your prejudging of players on that. Just give it some time, then take a look at what the average rating GIVEN is, and then judge players based on their rating compared to that. Regardless of what SHOULD be average, it will be relatively easy to determine what the ACTUAL average is.
I'd like to note, that I am giving ratings based on 3 as an average. Most of the ratings I have left have been 4's and 5's though. This is due to the simple fact that I have gotten to know a lot of players here, play most of my games with players I know already, and continue to play with them because I consider the experience to be good to excellent. Hence, the good to excellent ratings.
most of the ratings are based on the ratings they gave before they knew 3 was supposed to be average. and some people still see 5 as the average.
but eventually this will get averaged out.
I'm glad I could make myself clear. Now we're on the same page.
yes, but that doesn't justify leaving all 5's as perfectly fine. it's still abuse.
Re: Known abusers of the system
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:44 pm
by KLOBBER
zimmah wrote:owenshooter wrote:zimmah wrote:now given this fact, how the hell can 90% of the comminty be excellent?
there you got your answer! and this is not a personal opinion, it's FACTS.
yet another made up percentage... i love when you do that... show me how you got 90%... please...-0
p.s.-girlfriend or wife comments are out of line. but, zimmah, everyone on this site that has a hot chick avatar is generally the person in the avatar pic. *SNICKER*
*edit-i spelled "please" incorrectly... you all know i'm a spelling nazi*
ehm, as stated in my profile, it's my GF. and what's wrong with having my GF in my avatar? i just like to look at her picture more then looking at my own. (not that i'm that ugly but i don't think i come close to her either way.) anyways that's all offtopic.
yes the 90% is made up but you're missing the point. if nearly everyone gives out 5's to nearly everyone, then the whole system makes no sence, like i said, here's the defenition of both average (3 stars) and excelent (5 stars)
tell me if you can see the difference.
3stars:
average
adjective
1. Of moderately good quality but less than excellent: acceptable, adequate, all right, common, decent, fair, fairish, goodish, moderate, passable, respectable, satisfactory, sufficient, tolerable. Informal OK, tidy. See good/bad.
2. Commonly encountered: common, commonplace, general, normal, ordinary, typical, usual. See surprise/expect.
3. Being of no special quality or type: common, commonplace, cut-and-dried, formulaic, garden, garden-variety, indifferent, mediocre, ordinary, plain, routine, run-of-the-mill, standard, stock, undistinguished, unexceptional, unremarkable. See good/bad, usual/unusual.
http://www.answers.com/average5 stars:
Dictionary:
excellent
(ĕk'sə-lənt) pronunciation
adj.
1. Of the highest or finest quality; exceptionally good of its kind.
2. Archaic. Superior.
http://www.answers.com/topic/excellentnow that's quite a difference isn't it?
let me highlight it for you
http://awurl.com/fllqrq80531
Jesus H. Kee-rist on a sidecar!
Zimmah, you are simply WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!
I guarantee you that this petty, insane little rant you're on will get you absolutely nowhere.
The only thing that's yet to be seen is how frikkin' long it will take you to finally realize the above facts.
As for me, I am so finished with this silly thread that it's not even funny!
Re: Known abusers of the system
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:58 pm
by PLAYER57832
detlef wrote:owenshooter wrote:detlef wrote:Owen, will you be satisfied when a few weeks from now the vast majority of people's ratings are in the mid 4s?
i had perfect feedback and never left anyone a negative. that should say enough.-0
What does that have to do with anything. The point being made here is that if everyone or nearly everyone leaves 5s then everyone or nearly everyone will have ratings at or near 5. That would imply that the vast majority, perhaps 90% of CC's population will be "excellent" by definition of the 5 star system. What good is that?
Actually, I would say roughly 99% of the CC population IS what I would call "excellent".
And THAT is why the current system stinks.
I just want to know who the "jerks" are so that I can avoid them. I am quite happy to play with anyone else. I believe that is true for most. Now I can't tell if someone deadbeats whenever they lose, happens to have computer issues or even has just "refused to play real time" with a few who have their own ideas of what "should" be.
I cannot tell if someone has a foul mouth, likes to dictate what others should do or has ended up
playing someone who
thinks they have the "lock" on strategy and that anyone who plays differently has a "bad attitude".
I want to know the players that throw fits when they lose. BUT, now, I cannot tell which person leaving the low rating is the poor sport and which one is just rihgtfully "fed up". (maybe both)
Re: Known abusers of the system
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:04 pm
by MajorRT
What I hope will happen, is that, if everyone differentiates between the good/fun players and the sore-loser/deadbeat/idiot players, in some way shape or form (by giving them a 3 instead of a 5, or by giving them a 1 instead of a 3), then a separation will happen....I think there will be a bunch in the 2 range that we wouldn't want to play compared to the 4 range...but it will take time....too bad we couldn't use BOTH rating systems, the new AND the old..
Re: Known abusers of the system
Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:15 pm
by Timminz
zimmah wrote:Timminz wrote:zimmah wrote:but eventually this will get averaged out.
I'm glad I could make myself clear. Now we're on the same page.
yes, but that doesn't justify leaving all 5's as perfectly fine. it's still abuse.
but it doesn't matter, because you'll still be able to weed out players, without ever playing them, by simply basing your opinion on the ACTUAL average, rather than the IDEAL average.