[Abandoned] Escape [19/5] Pages 1/9

[koontz1973]

Simplified everything from weapons to decays. While I liked all of the different things on the map, it was going to never get made as it was. Here is a new one. Can I get a move into the foundry please.

Click image to enlarge.

[isaiah40]

Nah, I don't think I'll move it just yet

[koontz1973]

Nah, I don't think I'll move it just yet

You big meanie.

Click image to enlarge.

[Orc666]

I like the idea of a Zombie map but don't make it too complicated please !

[tkr4lf]

Hmmm.

Well, it certainly looks nice. I like how you did the legend this time.

It's much simpler now. I guess whether that's a good thing or a bad thing depends on individual preferences.


I do have to say that I really liked the plethora of bonuses you had before. But, with it being a bit simpler, it will probably appeal to more players and probably be a bit easier to get it through the foundry, instead of spending months upon months trying to work out the gameplay and bonuses.

Still a great looking map and one that I will definitely play once it reaches beta. Great job, Koontz! Glad to see you working on it again.

[koontz1973]

I like the idea of a Zombie map but don't make it too complicated please !

It will not be that bad. But a few surprises are to be had.

Hmmm.

Well, it certainly looks nice. I like how you did the legend this time.
It's much simpler now. I guess whether that's a good thing or a bad thing depends on individual preferences.
I do have to say that I really liked the plethora of bonuses you had before. But, with it being a bit simpler, it will probably appeal to more players and probably be a bit easier to get it through the foundry, instead of spending months upon months trying to work out the gameplay and bonuses.
Still a great looking map and one that I will definitely play once it reaches beta. Great job, Koontz! Glad to see you working on it again.

Simpler it it. With everything that was on the map, I could not get the legend to work. Taken about 3/4s of and it now has a simplicity to it that might just work. Only having 2 guns is easier to work, without the bullets and only auto deploys, less room.
This is the one guys unless you really miss something from an older version.

[nolefan5311]

I think you need to make the medicine regions more conspicuous, and also on the mini map make the different bonus zones a little more distinguishable. For example, are the Conference Rooms part of Admin bonus? Is the infirmary part of the Lab bonus? And the Lounges...are those part of the Dorms or Labs?

Also, the +1 for every 2 regions means a lot of troops will be dropped...not sure I like that.

[koontz1973]

I think you need to make the medicine regions more conspicuous, and also on the mini map make the different bonus zones a little more distinguishable. For example, are the Conference Rooms part of Admin bonus? Is the infirmary part of the Lab bonus? And the Lounges...are those part of the Dorms or Labs?

Easily done. Will make it so.

Also, the +1 for every 2 regions means a lot of troops will be dropped...not sure I like that.

Remember, every territ on this has a decay (-1 or -2) apart from special regions like guns and medicine. So in a game, you will lose more troops per round than gain. This will mean players need to really think about drops and where they go from their, simulates the virus attacking the body as well. This is one of those things that will either make the map great or a total waste of space. Never been done before but if you can think up a very good reason to remove it, I will.

[isaiah40]

Now this is just something personal I'd like to see done, can you make some bloody fingerprints on the paper like someone was reading them to see how to Escape?

[koontz1973]

Now this is just something personal I'd like to see done, can you make some bloody fingerprints on the paper like someone was reading them to see how to Escape?

Planning to add them as soon as I find a willing volunteer. Either that or wait till one of my students misbehaves at school.

[isaiah40]

Now this is just something personal I'd like to see done, can you make some bloody fingerprints on the paper like someone was reading them to see how to Escape?

Planning to add them as soon as I find a willing volunteer. Either that or wait till one of my students misbehaves at school.

I hope that isn't a reference to using actual bloody fingerprints!?

[koontz1973]

Now this is just something personal I'd like to see done, can you make some bloody fingerprints on the paper like someone was reading them to see how to Escape?

Planning to add them as soon as I find a willing volunteer. Either that or wait till one of my students misbehaves at school.

I hope that isn't a reference to using actual bloody fingerprints!?

Yes, how else am I going to get them.

[nolefan5311]

Also, the +1 for every 2 regions means a lot of troops will be dropped...not sure I like that.

Remember, every territ on this has a decay (-1 or -2) apart from special regions like guns and medicine. So in a game, you will lose more troops per round than gain. This will mean players need to really think about drops and where they go from their, simulates the virus attacking the body as well. This is one of those things that will either make the map great or a total waste of space. Never been done before but if you can think up a very good reason to remove it, I will.

This is only if people are silly enough to leave more than a single on the decay regions, which even mid level players don't do. So, though the log indicates I lost say, 12 men, in actuality, because we don't have a decay to neutral feature yet, I've only lost one from my main stack. Holding 20 regions will yield me a 10 drop...not a fan of that, and it's really going to throw off small games.

[isaiah40]

Save the students!! Here's mine :

Feel free to use it!!

[ManBungalow]

koontz, I think most of your maps would benefit from nicer background texture and better fonts.

[koontz1973]

Nole, in that sense you are right, leaving a single all over the place may allow you to get that extra troop, but singles are also easily taken. Hence the reason for the thinking before deploying. By round 3, a lot of singles are going to be everywhere, getting and keeping a foothold in any of the three areas is going to be differcult. Where you place your troops is going to become paramount. What is more important here, grabbing a gun and getting a secure place to defend from or getting the cards to advance to the winning condition. I had still planned to keep with the 15 starting regions max even for 1v1 games. So you only get 7 troops to start with on the first drop. You lose one, so if you place them all on one region, you only get to attack with 9. You will need to take two lots of threes to get player 2 down to a drop of 6. But this will leave all of yours undefended.

thanks isaiah. Hope you are not in too much pain.

koontz, I think most of your maps would benefit from nicer background texture and better fonts.

What is wrong with stucco for the background and marble for the map?

[ManBungalow]

koontz, I think most of your maps would benefit from nicer background texture and better fonts.

What is wrong with stucco for the background and marble for the map?

I can't quite put into words why, but the 'stucco' background in particular just looks...tacky. It feels almost 'cheap'.

For contrast, let's take a quick look at the background of Supermax. It's little more than a gradient of two colours, but it still looks cool and has a certain richness to it.

And while I hesitate to use Draknor as an example, because it really is in a league of its own, it's well worth looking at. Just look at how awesome it is.
I recognise that Escape and Draknor have different themes, but you can see the similarities in the "overhead of rooms with doors" aspect.

I'm aware that you're still in the gameplay stage here, but I mention this now because I know you won't want to totally change the graphics later on in the development process.

Keep at it koontz.

[koontz1973]

Alright ManB, will change the stucco but will keep the marble. Do you have anything that you think might look better but keeping with the theme of government/secret labs? Both examples you gave are wrong. The supermax one is just plain but has that bevelled metal in the legend part. Not really suitable for a wall. Draknor has stone. Both are great for those maps.

Any ideas anyone for the main part of the background? Will be keeping it one colour though with the blood drips.

On a side note MB, "Keep at it koontz." when you post this, I find it insulting and I feel you are trying to bait me, can you please stop it.

[koontz1973]

New background. Glows. Mini map. Moved some icons around.

Click image to enlarge.

[Funkyterrance]

New background. Glows. Mini map. Moved some icons around.

Click image to enlarge.

The background and other changes are an improvement for sure. It looks more finished already.

[koontz1973]

The background and other changes are an improvement for sure. It looks more finished already.

Cheers FT, anything else you spotted that might need a look at?

[nolefan5311]

I think the knife, pistol, and medicine symbols need to be more pronounced. For medicine, I only see 4, so perhaps just make those rooms different colors, and call them like Pharmacy 1, 2, and 3, or something like that?

Also, for the regions with two names in them (Security 1/Security 2, Manager 3/Sec 4, Sec 1/Manager 1, etc), are these two separate regions? If so, can they both attack out into the hallway? If not, I think you need to draw a clear line showing they do not border the hallways. I see them in previous drafts...perhaps they just got lost in this latest one.

"Virus Carries" should be "Virus Carriers", or better yet, "Infected".

I still don't think the mini-map is as clear as it should be. Is there any way you can split the mini map so there is a clear gap between bonus zones?

Also, I need to examine the conditional borders more, but I'll have to do that once everything else is sorted out. I'm still not keen on the 1 troops for every two regions. In 1v1, a player starts with 15 regions, so 7 troops. It's not hard to conceive me taking my opponent down to 11 regions and his drop to 5 for his first turn.

[koontz1973]

I think the knife, pistol, and medicine symbols need to be more pronounced. For medicine, I only see 4, so perhaps just make those rooms different colors, and call them like Pharmacy 1, 2, and 3, or something like that?

Can do. Probably not different colours but will look into getting them more pronounced.

Also, for the regions with two names in them (Security 1/Security 2, Manager 3/Sec 4, Sec 1/Manager 1, etc), are these two separate regions? If so, can they both attack out into the hallway? If not, I think you need to draw a clear line showing they do not border the hallways. I see them in previous drafts...perhaps they just got lost in this latest one.

New rules for the latest couple of drafts. Instead of the free for all, I am going to use attack lines. Tried to put in region borders and that did not work. So am going really old school and use attack lines. But with a twist and use blood trails. Does this need explaining? (guess so as you did not pick up on it, will add to legend).

"Virus Carries" should be "Virus Carriers", or better yet, "Infected".

I like infected. Nice one nole.

Also, I need to examine the conditional borders more, but I'll have to do that once everything else is sorted out. I'm still not keen on the 1 troops for every two regions. In 1v1, a player starts with 15 regions, so 7 troops. It's not hard to conceive me taking my opponent down to 11 regions and his drop to 5 for his first turn.

But if you did that, you would end up leaving yourself vulnerable to a counter attack. To get him down to a 5 drop, you need to take 6 regions. 17-6=11=5 drop. Dice would need to be bloody good for that as that would be 15 troops to knock out in one round. Been thinking about this one though as you seem unhappy with it. how about the bonuses go like Route66 and the Vertex/Austrum maps. +1 for every 4 connected in a bonus zone. Keep the 3 bonus zones only though. This would mean hallways become part of the bonus zones for each of the 3 areas.
Hallways 1-8 admin only, 9-15 dorms and labs, 16-20 labs only.
Doing this though, I will keep the decays as is and the drops will still be a random 15 max now including the hallways (previous thoughts was to have these all start neutral).

Update tomorrow.

[nolefan5311]

Also, I need to examine the conditional borders more, but I'll have to do that once everything else is sorted out. I'm still not keen on the 1 troops for every two regions. In 1v1, a player starts with 15 regions, so 7 troops. It's not hard to conceive me taking my opponent down to 11 regions and his drop to 5 for his first turn.

But if you did that, you would end up leaving yourself vulnerable to a counter attack. To get him down to a 5 drop, you need to take 6 regions. 17-6=11=5 drop. Dice would need to be bloody good for that as that would be 15 troops to knock out in one round. Been thinking about this one though as you seem unhappy with it. how about the bonuses go like Route66 and the Vertex/Austrum maps. +1 for every 4 connected in a bonus zone. Keep the 3 bonus zones only though. This would mean hallways become part of the bonus zones for each of the 3 areas.
Hallways 1-8 admin only, 9-15 dorms and labs, 16-20 labs only.
Doing this though, I will keep the decays as is and the drops will still be a random 15 max now including the hallways (previous thoughts was to have these all start neutral).

Update tomorrow.

To get him to a 5 drop you would only need to take 3 regions to get him to 11 (1 troop for every two regions - 10 regions is 5 troops). I'm I'm dropping 7 that's 10 troops to take 9, which is better than 50%. At that point you might be exposing yourself to counter attack, but you've also put your opponent in a big hole. I'm basing this off of the OP where you state each player starts with 15 in 1v1.

I don't like the connected bonuses either, not with the guns and knives and the standard continent bonuses. And you'd have to do something about the killer neutral getting in the way.

[koontz1973]

Sorry nole, let me start again as even I am getting confused with this one. I need to update the OP and will do so after the next draft is posted.

Go back to the normal +1 for 3 regions gives a drop of 5. So an extra 2 troops is not that much. But a normal 1/3 means only 1 region gone and we end up with a loss of a troop for player 2 in two player games.

I'm dropping 7 that's 10 troops to take 9,

9 to take 12 troops as you have lost one in the decay at the start and need to take 4 regions. But I take your point which is why I am trying to come up with a solution.

standard continent bonuses

No continent bonuses anywhere on this map. The 3 so called continents (admin, dorms and labs) are just regions in which a different scale of bonus can be had. This will become flat though.

Let me have a think about it tonight and see what I can come up with.