Clarification on when Bigotry is acceptable

[Lindax]

No, words are not meaningless, and anyone who thinks they are is a mouthbreathing braindwarf.

This seems pretty offensive to little people.

Lx

[Robinette]

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=168042&p=3675668#p3675668

The decision was overturned- the case remains Closed, but they will all be punished according to where they stand on the Bigotry scale.

I just felt a disturbance in the force that sounded like a thousand voices screaming, "Oh." and then were suddenly silenced.

I fear something wonderful has happened.

[chapcrap]

No, words are not meaningless, and anyone who thinks they are is a mouthbreathing braindwarf.

This seems pretty offensive to little people.

Lx

Not to mention mouth breathers.

[natty dread]

No, words are not meaningless, and anyone who thinks they are is a mouthbreathing braindwarf.

This seems pretty offensive to little people.

Lx

What's all this then?

Do you equate little people with low intelligence?

Just because people are small in posture doesn't mean they suffer from brain dwarfism, which is a condition that can cause, for example, one to post bigoted comments on online forums.

[tkr4lf]

p.s.-and did someone really just bust out the N word? mod edit? anyone? anyone... wow...

I did. You have a problem with that? If so, why?

I'm not religious, but I can imagine many more people being offended with somebody calling himself the Black Jesus than me using the word nigger in the context I did.

Lx

right on target...
it would be interesting to see owen reaction if someone starts to sign as "white Martin Luther King"... personally, similar to you, i dont care about religion, but it is signature written down to provoke caucasians, meaning its motivated by racism.

How is owen's signature provocative to Caucasians? Jesus wasn't a Caucasian, he was Jewish.

and jewish ppl arent caucasians?

Not when Jesus was alive. Some of them are nowadays, but not back then. Jesus wasn't white. He was brown/tan/olive-skinned, however you want to phrase it, just like all the other Jews that lived there during his time.

[Haggis_McMutton]

This is beyond ridiculous.

The guy who is the supposed "victim" of the fag comment repeatedly stated he has no problem with it. The punishment was still meted out because people whom the author didn't even have in mind when he wrote the comment, read it and were offended.

Do you people see the problem here? Really, no?

I suppose, for instance, this company : http://www.fag.com, should be shut down solely because in your estimation most people associate the word fag with a slur directed against homosexuals (care to provide some data backing that btw? seems to me it's far more commonly used as a synonym for "asshole" or some such).

No word should be completely unacceptable. No matter the historical baggage, used carefully any word can avoid being demeaning to any group. Indeed by treating some words as fuckin' magic voodoo spells we are only contributing to the power they hold.

[owenshooter]

This is beyond ridiculous.

The guy who is the supposed "victim" of the fag comment repeatedly stated he has no problem with it. The punishment was still meted out because people whom the author didn't even have in mind when he wrote the comment, read it and were offended.

Do you people see the problem here? Really, no?

nope, none... admins have repeatedly stated that bigotry is bigotry no matter what the circumstance.. furthermore, they have stated that even "inside jokes" can get you banned if one person misinterprets it... and that has happened in the past. bigotry is bigotry, period...-el Jesus negro

[Gillipig]

Why do you have to take the fun out of everything owen? Why can't we even have one day when you can get away with anything on this site? One day of flame wars is not to much too much by any means!

[MudPuppy]

Why do you have to take the fun out of everything owen?

[player]owenshooter[/player]: Always taking the fun out of bigfunotry.

[Bones2484]

Why do you have to take the fun out of everything owen? Why can't we even have one day when you can get away with anything on this site? One day of flame wars is not to much too much by any means!

Big difference between flaming and using bigoted/racist terms. When you grow up, you'll hopefully figure it out.

[jgordon1111]

Words have power,used by the right people they can build empires.

Used by the wrong people they can destroy empires.

Jesus Christ

Adolph Hitler

Ghandi

Budda

Mohammed

Joseph Stalin

Think for a minute how each of them affected the world right up to today,with just WORD's.

Granted this is a game site but some words are prohibited for the good and continuity of the community.

[Falkomagno]

This is beyond ridiculous.

The guy who is the supposed "victim" of the fag comment repeatedly stated he has no problem with it. The punishment was still meted out because people whom the author didn't even have in mind when he wrote the comment, read it and were offended.

Do you people see the problem here? Really, no?

I suppose, for instance, this company : http://www.fag.com, should be shut down solely because in your estimation most people associate the word fag with a slur directed against homosexuals (care to provide some data backing that btw? seems to me it's far more commonly used as a synonym for "asshole" or some such).

No word should be completely unacceptable. No matter the historical baggage, used carefully any word can avoid being demeaning to any group. Indeed by treating some words as fuckin' magic voodoo spells we are only contributing to the power they hold.

Exactly!. i knew there is mesured people around. Failing to understand that is frankly ridiculous.

[demonfork]

words itself are meaningless, but the intention and context given is what really shape its meaning

No, words are not meaningless, and anyone who thinks they are is a mouthbreathing braindwarf.

The meaning of any given word is an agreement between everyone who speaks the same language. Intent has nothing to do with it, because people are not fucking mind readers and can not discern the intent behind any given word unless you spell it out. It's not rocket science.

You can't go on calling people n***ers or f***ots and then be all "hurr durr I didn't mean anything with it, they're just words durrrr" because you cannot ignore the historical and cultural baggage of a word.

\

Even the Smufs understand that words are meaningless without context.

Go smurf yourself.

It's smurfing cats and dogs today.

I'm hungry I could sure go for a bowl of smurf.

What a fine kettle of smurf we have gotten ourselves into.

Natty's comprehension levels sure have been slipping lately, I hope that it's not because of his little smurf.

[natty dread]

Even the Smufs understand that words are meaningless without context.

Go smurf yourself.

It's smurfing cats and dogs today.

I'm hungry I could sure go for a bowl of smurf.

Yeah guess what genius, those words are still meaningless. You can't tell if a bowl of smurf means a bowl of soup or disembodied penises.

And when you say it's smurfing cats and dogs today, are you refering to papa smurf who has finally snapped and went on a rampage to smurf all the cats and dogs? Ew.

Fucking animal smurfer.

Why do you have to take the fun out of everything owen? Why can't we even have one day when you can get away with anything on this site? One day of flame wars is not to much too much by any means!

Hey look at that, it's the guy who a while ago was insisting that black people are genetically inferior to white on the offtopics forum.

How am I not surprised to see you defending bigotry here...

[owenshooter]

Why do you have to take the fun out of everything owen? Why can't we even have one day when you can get away with anything on this site? One day of flame wars is not to much too much by any means!

Hey look at that, it's the guy who a while ago was insisting that black people are genetically inferior to white on the offtopics forum.

How am I not surprised to see you defending bigotry here...

hey, hey, hey!! that was ok, because it was in off topics!!! don't go trying to make them enforce rules ALL OVER THE SITE!!!-el Jesus negro

[BigBallinStalin]

words itself are meaningless, but the intention and context given is what really shape its meaning

No, words are not meaningless, and anyone who thinks they are is a mouthbreathing braindwarf.

The meaning of any given word is an agreement between everyone who speaks the same language. Intent has nothing to do with it, because people are not fucking mind readers and can not discern the intent behind any given word unless you spell it out. It's not rocket science.

You can't go on calling people n***ers or f***ots and then be all "hurr durr I didn't mean anything with it, they're just words durrrr" because you cannot ignore the historical and cultural baggage of a word.

If that was true, then there would never be any misunderstanding on the meaning of any word among everyone who speaks the same language because, according to you, "the meaning of any given word is an agreement between everyone who speaks the same language." Yet, that's false. Look at the disagreement over the meaning of words in this thread...

There is no agreement among the same users of the same language for every word. Meaning is subjective, and the meaning of words is influenced by the context.

Read Max Weber and Wittgenstein.

[BigBallinStalin]

I'm in agreement with the following:

CoH: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=168242&start=45#p3674636
Summary: intent matters.

CoH: http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=168242&start=45#p3674690
"'Mens rea' and 'Actus reus' [FTW, mofos.]"

Haggis_McMutton http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=168242&start=75#p3677237
(regarding his last two paragraphs, the most radically "anti-bigot" people in here have to agree in order to be logically consistent, which would make them absurd.)
______________________________________________________________________

Let's put preaching into practice:

Is the following post of mine a ban-able offense? And why?

I think doing bigoted things should occupy more attention than saying bigoted things.

On the other hand, don't you think that people who say bigoted things are creating an atmosphere that enables and allows people to do bigoted things?

Without a population of people who approve bigoted things, there's no opportunity for bigots to do bigoted things...

There's always the possibility of being misunderstood and of being fearful of the unknown. Since that exists, then politicians and the mainstream media will use this to their advantage. So, it's wiser to opt toward my Step 1 first:

Step 1 would be attaining mutual understanding through my approach in ITT.

The incorrect Step 1 is jumping to the conclusion that his words seem bigoted; therefore, rabidly attack him.


After my Step 1 has been reached, then the conclusion of "bigot or not bigot" can be justified; therefore, attack or not attack away.


This reminds me of several conversations I've had with some black people. Some would say, "I hate niggers." I go, "Whoa now! What do you mean?" Then they explain, and I realize that they're talking about a certain group of people--not all black people. For some of them, the term "niggers" describes these criminals, rapists, thieves, thugs, etc. who live in their neighborhoods. Is it bigoted to hate people who murder, steal, and rape? ...

Subjective meaning is complex; there is no black-and-white here. So, it makes sense to attain mutual understanding before accusing people of bigotry, racism, etc. Don't you agree?

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=168025&p=3670873&hilit=whoa%2C+now#p3670873

[Army of GOD]

By the letter of the law on this site, the person who said "f*g" should be punished, as well as anyone who has used the word or "ni**er" in this thread. From what I remember, saying either of those words is an insta-ban, no matter the context (I remember some time ago where King Achilles said just writing down lyrics to a song with "n*gga" in it is ban-worthy).

That does not mean that I disagree with the rule. Every thing depends on context, and the context here is vague and ambiguous.

and natty, you can't seriously believe context or intent has no bearing on whether or not a statement is bigoted or not.

Let's play a game called "Which is the racist comment?":

(1) [insert name] is a n*gger
(2) "N*gger" is a racial slur that originated in the 18th century

Please tell me you see a difference between the two.

[natty dread]

Context matters in some cases, intent does not, because you cannot be sure of anyone's intent from words alone.

If I say "AoG, I fucked your grandmother last night and she told me you still wet your bed" you can't tell if my intent is to joke good-heartedly about your bedwetting problem, or if I'm trying to insult you. Because you don't know my intent and you can't infer it from words alone.

"Intent" should not be taken in account because anyone can use "intent" as a justification for saying any kind of hateful & bigoted crap.

[Gillipig]

Why do you have to take the fun out of everything owen? Why can't we even have one day when you can get away with anything on this site? One day of flame wars is not to much too much by any means!

Hey look at that, it's the guy who a while ago was insisting that black people are genetically inferior to white on the offtopics forum.

How am I not surprised to see you defending bigotry here...

I dare you to quote me shithead!

[natty dread]

As requested.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=94454&p=3037082#p3037082

f*ck white people

Actually I wouldn't call that comment racist! Racisim is the belief of one race being superior to another! You only said f'ck white people so you haven't said that caucasians are better or worse than other races.

Here's a question for you guys; Can you be racist and have right?
If I say black people are better at running than white people I'm saying something racist aka black are superior to white people. Yet that's 100% true! There's little doubt that black people have genetic advantages when it comes to running.

In the same way I can say that white people have higher IQ than black people (that is documented and supported by several scientific studies and NOT just racist ramblings) ! And that would also be 100% true and equally racist. But somehow society wouldn't see it the same way. Society would twist it into the latter comment being deeply racist and and the first comment not racist at all which is just utter bullshit because they're both equally valid and racist!
If you want sources for the IQ thing I'll be more than happy to post them here but I won't post them if no one disputes this being true!

[demonfork]

As requested.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=94454&p=3037082#p3037082

f*ck white people

Actually I wouldn't call that comment racist! Racisim is the belief of one race being superior to another! You only said f'ck white people so you haven't said that caucasians are better or worse than other races.

Here's a question for you guys; Can you be racist and have right?
If I say black people are better at running than white people I'm saying something racist aka black are superior to white people. Yet that's 100% true! There's little doubt that black people have genetic advantages when it comes to running.

In the same way I can say that white people have higher IQ than black people (that is documented and supported by several scientific studies and NOT just racist ramblings) ! And that would also be 100% true and equally racist. But somehow society wouldn't see it the same way. Society would twist it into the latter comment being deeply racist and and the first comment not racist at all which is just utter bullshit because they're both equally valid and racist!
If you want sources for the IQ thing I'll be more than happy to post them here but I won't post them if no one disputes this being true!

There is no empirical evidence that will show that the IQ gap that exists between whites and blacks has anything to do with genetics or cognitive ability. However there is much evidence that supports the notion that the gap is caused by socioeconomic and/or environmental factors.

It seems to me gillipigfucker that your argument is of the straw man variety as you are trying to have us believe that the IQ gap exists because of genetics when in reality its caused by the racist establishment that does whatever it can to keep the black man down.

[oVo]

Ignoring it doesn't make it go away or make it acceptable.

Many forums are moderated much tighter than this one
and in some such posts are not tolerated or published.