FOW: cheating, or strategy?

[king achilles]

Being in a FOG type of game means you have limited view of the map. There is no option to block the game chat in any types of game so anyone can still say anything in the game, be it a misleading or a revealing information. Maybe because you killed that player or almost killed him, in retaliation, he sings in the game chat just how strong you are. It's poor sportsmanship. It can be seen as some sort of diplomatic discussion, but it's also disrespecting the fog of war settings. It's more of an attitude or maturity of how one plays the game, graciousness in winning or losing.

[jgordon1111]

and the question remains,King is there any way to change the rules. Take a vote,and in that vote you can only vote on it if you play the fog games enough to have recieved the bronze medal. That way the people who play it in the spirit the map was made,have a better representation,rather than the trollers jumping in to vote.

[jgordon1111]

canadian bacon, xenowolff said just the opposite of what i believe the map was designed for,Therefore rather than end up in a game together I chose to FOE. That doesnt stop xeno from playing other people who believe the map is for their style of play. Much easier than giving a bad rating,where this would be a factor for me. Therefore better for everyone.

[canadian bacon]

canadian bacon, xenowolff said just the opposite of what i believe the map was designed for,Therefore rather than end up in a game together I chose to FOE. That doesnt stop xeno from playing other people who believe the map is for their style of play. Much easier than giving a bad rating,where this would be a factor for me. Therefore better for everyone.

My problem is rather than risking a civil discussion you just foed him before he could even respond to you. It isn't going to kill you to not join a game for a day or two to listen to someone who has a good argument.

"That doesn't stop xeno from playing other people who believe the map is for their style of play" Now that you mention it, arn't you advocating a rule change that would prevent him from doing just that? It appears to me you just foed him to shut him up.

Speaking of rule changes why are you trying to change the rules? You make it seem as though you don't care whether or not people share info in games you arn't playing in, but then you go and try to change the rules so that even people you will never play can't play the way they want to play.

[jgordon1111]

I see his side of the arguement and it opposes mine entirely.no discussion needed.

[canadian bacon]

I see his side of the arguement and it opposes mine entirely.no discussion needed.

This is the closed mindedness i was speaking of in my first post, also i edited my previous post you might want to take a look.

[jgordon1111]

if people want to discuss the map then dont use fog maps, its very easy just dont pick the fog option.then you get to talk about anyones troops you want to.Heck you can even talk about your's or someone elses troops in an entirely different game if you desire. I understand you feel the unstoppable need to argue everything. I dont [End]. Please put next asinine comment on my wall where I can view it at leisure. Uh oh

[canadian bacon]

if people want to discuss the map then dont use fog maps, its very easy just dont pick the fog option.then you get to talk about anyones troops you want to.Heck you can even talk about your's or someone elses troops in an entirely different game if you desire. I understand you feel the unstoppable need to argue everything. I dont [End]. Please put next asinine comment on my wall where I can view it at leisure. Uh oh

Sorry, I prefer to not clog up my wall or inbox arguing with someone and to discuss the issue in the thread that has been created for it.

You honestly think I argue everything? That's a lark, with all the crap I could argue about on CC why not take a gander at the relatively low number of posts I've made. No, The reason I'm arguing with you right now is because you're trying to change the rules of CC. I take issue with this for two reasons. The first reason is the rules of CC are as perfect as they're going to get. The other reason is the same reason I take issue with our(The United States) legal system. In the U.S. it's getting to the point where EVERYTHING is getting spelled out to the point where there are 20 different laws on making a right hand turn in a car. The U.S. has this way of lawmaking that assumes the common person is a moron and can't think for themselves, there by they assume they need to tell you exactly how to do everything and punish you if you don't get the picture, and buddy this rule change reeks of our over bearing legal system.

For example, instead of changing the rules and pissing off a large portion of CC, why not use the chat turn 1 to decide with a common vote whether or not to use information sharing? That would make too much sense wouldn't it? In before foed for voicing my opinion.

[chapcrap]

I don't think talking in fog games is bad form. It's a strategy as much as any other. If you see someone is strong, you can say so. You can even lie about people, that's part of the fog of war strategy.

I hardly ever use that strategy, but it is one that I think is fine to use.

Of course, once a player is eliminated, they should not be allowed to divulge any information at all, in my opinion. They are eliminated and info that they give is just vindictive. That should be against the rules.

[canadian bacon]

I don't think talking in fog games is bad form. It's a strategy as much as any other. If you see someone is strong, you can say so. You can even lie about people, that's part of the fog of war strategy.

I hardly ever use that strategy, but it is one that I think is fine to use.

Of course, once a player is eliminated, they should not be allowed to divulge any information at all, in my opinion. They are eliminated and info that they give is just vindictive. That should be against the rules.

agreed

[xenowolff]

I don't think talking in fog games is bad form. It's a strategy as much as any other. If you see someone is strong, you can say so. You can even lie about people, that's part of the fog of war strategy.

I hardly ever use that strategy, but it is one that I think is fine to use.

Of course, once a player is eliminated, they should not be allowed to divulge any information at all, in my opinion. They are eliminated and info that they give is just vindictive. That should be against the rules.

I wholeheartedly agree. The game itself has a code of conduct, and everyone is expected to be a gracious winner, and a gracious loser too. I have lost more games than I have won, most if not all in FOW. most games the issue of sharing information doesn't come up because most people don't like it. but when it does happen, you can either ignore it (as I am being ignored now for my opinions) or you can use it to your advantage: this is a war game, after all. information is power, just as much as your troops or alliances. It's a powerful tool. 'with great power comes great responsibility' As a wise old man once told a soon-to-be mutated spider person. Those who don't take the power's responsibility seriously end up spilling information in a vindictive manner.

[Gillipig]

I have a couple of guidelines I follow;
1. Never do something that you don't think you'll earn on.
2. Never cheat.
3. Immoral doesn't equal illegal.

I'll do anything if I think I can earn on it and it isn't against the rules.
Here's a list of things I'll do that I think a lot of people consider poor sport:
1. If I know I can't win a game I try to make the highest ranked player win the game.
2. I'll lie in fog of war games (example: curse the dice to make it look like I lost a lot of troops when I'm stacking).
3. I'll carv stacks. (reduce the troop count but not take the territ)
4. If I don't want to cash in a nuclear set of spoils I'll let the clock run out so I don't get spoils.
5. I'll brake truces before they expire (if I think I'll earn on it).
6. Tell the other players in a fog game where someone is when I'm out of the game (if it gives the highest ranked player a better chance at winning)
7. Say gg when the game is far from over.

[chapcrap]

6. Tell the other players in a fog game where someone is when I'm out of the game (if it gives the highest ranked player a better chance at winning)

Because of this, you are now the 4th player on my foe list.

[Gillipig]

6. Tell the other players in a fog game where someone is when I'm out of the game (if it gives the highest ranked player a better chance at winning)

Because of this, you are now the 4th player on my foe list.

Who are the other 3?

[canadian bacon]

6. Tell the other players in a fog game where someone is when I'm out of the game (if it gives the highest ranked player a better chance at winning)

Because of this, you are now the 4th player on my foe list.

Who are the other 3?

he cant hear you now. I won't foe you on principal since I accepted the ponies into my life, or i would,but sharing info when you know you can't win is vindictive and shows just what kind of person you really are.

[xenowolff]

6. Tell the other players in a fog game where someone is when I'm out of the game (if it gives the highest ranked player a better chance at winning)

first and foremost, why hand a higher ranked player a win? if they have a high rank, they shouldn't need the handicap you give them.

second, this is being vindictive in a nutshell. you lost, so lets hand someone else the win? no, if you lost fairly, let someone else win fairly.

third, on my morals I wont foe you. but you came pretty darn close.

he cant hear you now. I won't foe you on principal since I accepted the ponies into my life, or i would,but sharing info when you know you can't win is vindictive and shows just what kind of person you really are.

If I hear one more thing about ponies I am gonna scream. ponies are for twelve year old girls, not 18-25 year old men. its creepy and just plain weird (IMO) for someone from that age range to watch them. Before I hear the 'its for parents too' that means people who have twelve year old girls. lets do math.

'parent 1' is 18 ( i would hope we are not talking about anyone younger having kids)
'parent 1' has little girl
little girl ages 12 years.
through inference, 'parent 1' ages 12 years
'parent 1' is now 30

I have an issue with grown (and semi grown) men watching a little girl's show.

and yes, I know I have issues, before someone points them out.

[chapcrap]

6. Tell the other players in a fog game where someone is when I'm out of the game (if it gives the highest ranked player a better chance at winning)

Because of this, you are now the 4th player on my foe list.

Who are the other 3?

he cant hear you now. I won't foe you on principal since I accepted the ponies into my life, or i would,but sharing info when you know you can't win is vindictive and shows just what kind of person you really are.

It's not that I'm trying to get back at you for doing that or just trying to be a douche. I just don't want him to screw me over like that, so I'm preventing it.

And the other people on my foe list are there for missed turns (a lot of missed turns) or really bad attitude and language for no reason. I won't tell you who they are.

[Gillipig]

6. Tell the other players in a fog game where someone is when I'm out of the game (if it gives the highest ranked player a better chance at winning)

first and foremost, why hand a higher ranked player a win? if they have a high rank, they shouldn't need the handicap you give them.

second, this is being vindictive in a nutshell. you lost, so lets hand someone else the win? no, if you lost fairly, let someone else win fairly.

third, on my morals I wont foe you. but you came pretty darn close.

Like I said in 1. It will make me lose less points. So it's not vindictive! I don't do it to get back at someone, just to lose as few points as possible. And that's what makes it a strategy. It's not illegal and I'll earn points on it.

It's not that I'm trying to get back at you for doing that or just trying to be a douche. I just don't want him to screw me over like that, so I'm preventing it.

And the other people on my foe list are there for missed turns (a lot of missed turns) or really bad attitude and language for no reason. I won't tell you who they are.

Makes sense! In fact I should be on that list just for all my missed turns. No offence taken I've said it before and I'll said it again the foe list is there for a reason and we should all use it as we wish!!

[canadian bacon]

6. Tell the other players in a fog game where someone is when I'm out of the game (if it gives the highest ranked player a better chance at winning)

first and foremost, why hand a higher ranked player a win? if they have a high rank, they shouldn't need the handicap you give them.

second, this is being vindictive in a nutshell. you lost, so lets hand someone else the win? no, if you lost fairly, let someone else win fairly.

third, on my morals I wont foe you. but you came pretty darn close.

he cant hear you now. I won't foe you on principal since I accepted the ponies into my life, or i would,but sharing info when you know you can't win is vindictive and shows just what kind of person you really are.

If I hear one more thing about ponies I am gonna scream. ponies are for twelve year old girls, not 18-25 year old men. its creepy and just plain weird (IMO) for someone from that age range to watch them. Before I hear the 'its for parents too' that means people who have twelve year old girls. lets do math.

'parent 1' is 18 ( i would hope we are not talking about anyone younger having kids)
'parent 1' has little girl
little girl ages 12 years.
through inference, 'parent 1' ages 12 years
'parent 1' is now 30

I have an issue with grown (and semi grown) men watching a little girl's show.

and yes, I know I have issues, before someone points them out.

I like ponies, so what? i like the show for it's merits, why should i be constrained by abstract social concepts that i don't even care about? that's like telling a girl she can't hock a loogie because it isn't girly.... seriously if girls can act like men and be praised for it why am i treated like a leper when i like one thing people consider effeminate? and about it being for children? everyone in our friend group acts 5-10 years younger than they are anyway, yes that includes you.

[canadian bacon]

6. Tell the other players in a fog game where someone is when I'm out of the game (if it gives the highest ranked player a better chance at winning)

Because of this, you are now the 4th player on my foe list.

Who are the other 3?

he cant hear you now. I won't foe you on principal since I accepted the ponies into my life, or i would,but sharing info when you know you can't win is vindictive and shows just what kind of person you really are.

It's not that I'm trying to get back at you for doing that or just trying to be a douche. I just don't want him to screw me over like that, so I'm preventing it.

And the other people on my foe list are there for missed turns (a lot of missed turns) or really bad attitude and language for no reason. I won't tell you who they are.

understood...

[Criticalwinner]

It's not really cheating I don't think.... But it is in bad taste of the game. There's a reason people play fog of war games.... It's too add that mystery and that unknown sense of gameplay. I for one, don't really like fog of war; but it's nice to play once in awhile. And when I play, I better have no idea what's going on around me, unless my troops can see it.

[Powercrazy]

I have a couple of guidelines I follow;
1. Never do something that you don't think you'll earn on.
2. Never cheat.
3. Immoral doesn't equal illegal.

3. I'll carv stacks. (reduce the troop count but not take the territ)
4. If I don't want to cash in a nuclear set of spoils I'll let the clock run out so I don't get spoils.

6. Tell the other players in a fog game where someone is when I'm out of the game (if it gives the highest ranked player a better chance at winning)

A couple of questions, points.

Is #3 something that people get upset about? the carving stack thing? That is a fundamental aspect of the game that separates good players from noobs. I will do that almost constantly, as taking as many territories is not always the best move.

#4 The fact that you can do this is an exploit that should be fixed imo. I don't care that you do it, but it probably should be safe guarded against.

#6 is directly contrary to your #1 Guideline. You will not "earn" once you are dead. If you can't even follow your own guidelines, then it shows you really have NO guidelines, which has moral repercussions outside of the game world.

As for king making, it is inevitable, and picking the Highest ranked person to "make" is just as good as picking the lowest ranked. It's why I always try to avoid 3 person FFAs. 2v2v2's are something else entirely.

[Jippd]

I think we can all agree it would be better if there was an option to disable chat in games. So you could have FOW games made with chat or without. That way you can join knowing for sure people can't talk or join a FOW game where you can work diplomacy and manipulate with false information. Can't be too hard to do make a suggestion!