9/11 conspiracy, A BOOGA BOOGA BOOGA

[jay_a2j]

The heavy majority of the deaths occurred from where the planes hit the tower and the floors above that point

Why do I seriously doubt that?

[Phatscotty]

If Pearl Harbour was a conspiracy, would you still consider it a good conspiracy considering the results?

It was great for America. Sure they had a few battleships sunk in the harbour and approx. 3000 Americans got killed, but they (the country) went onto becoming a huge factory for making weapons for the allies. Safe from being bombed due to the 2 rather large oceans that border it. They made a ton of money from that war. All they needed was the right episode to make all Americans ok with them entering it.

England went from superpower to super in debt to the Americans during ww2. We only just finished paying off the WW2 debt 1 year before 9/11. then it was iraq, afganistan then the banks imploded.

England has been dealt 60 years of shit, whilst the defeated Germans and Japs went onto build greater manufacturing bases (no armies after ww2) than the home of the industrial revolution, England. Now since that, the pen pushers have decided it's cheaper to make stuff somewhere else and pay some Indian or Chinese worker f*ck all to make a tv, playstation, mobile phone etc.


So yeah, Japan attacking pearl harbour was a great bit of business for America. 3000 dead v the $ income = win win for the USA economy.

Your from UK, cool, me too. 100% agree with what you said, WWII was the best thing to ever happen to the USA.

you meant winning WWII was the best thing....

[Frigidus]

The heavy majority of the deaths occurred from where the planes hit the tower and the floors above that point

Why do I seriously doubt that?

Good question. I mean, they evacuated the buildings and surrounding area to the best of their abilities, and the towers collapsed into themselves. Although I'm sure there were some deaths from the collapse, it isn't like the building fell over sideways into a busy street.

[AgentSmith88]

This isn't a movie or video game. People don't go killing willy nilly because they can. Please explain your theory on why the US government would want to blow up their own buildings that hold vital information. (The towers had financial info, the Pentagon obvioulsly military). I thought the point of wanting to be part of the government was helping control the direction of the country. What point does killing citizens they are supposed represent serve?

It would take tons of people coordinating to pull off a job like that and you don't think at least 1 person would run to the media with a least a little bit of proof? You're looking to try and find something that isn't there. Honestly I would believe in aliens or scientology before any of the crackpot conspiracies about 9/11.

Operation North Woods. No one knew about it until it was accidentally declassified. The Tuskegee Syphilis Study,... everyone knew about it. The health Care crisis on Indian reservations (AND WE JUST TALKED ABOUT THIS).
Plus am I the only one who remembers the media fervor over the declassified documents that proved that the CIA was experimenting on the American public with LSD without their knowledge? People died and they covered it up. Again, another classification blunder brought this to light. People though that their dad had a heart attack 20 years ago only to find out that they had slipped some psychotropic drugs in his morning coffee....
On a some-what related note, Al Capone bought Chicago. Then Watergate happened. Then 50 police officers were arrested in Denver for being part of a massive burglary ring. And today I live in Illinois, a state known for corruption being intertwined in politics. I'm just saying that this isn't sci-fi. This stuff happens all the time.
Anyone who thinks that our government would not EVER kill it's citizens and lie about it is not educating themselves on the topic. Information exists, and is widely published.

This isn't a movie or video game. People don't go killing willy nilly because they can.

Well, we did invade Iraq AND Afghanistan all for 1 guy...

Please explain your theory on why the US government would want to blow up their own buildings that hold vital information.

Tower 7 had the only vital information in it. You see, the Pentagon was undergoing some remodeling on the side that was struck by the plan. All filing cabinets ect. were moved. The remodeling was for a "what-if a plan is hijacked and smashes into the pentagon" scenario. No joke. The funniest part though, is that all the surveillance camera's were still running, but the footage has never been released. Even the footage from local hotels and gas stations had been confiscated immediately. I think a total of 3 or 7 frames or some junk was released. Basically, a fireball.
Tower 7 had tons of tax filings/investigation information in it. The coolest and most important probably being the IRS's only copies of it's ENRON paper trail investigation. There was more but it's been a long-ass times since I've read-up on it.

They needed a pretext to get troops in the middle east. (and take out Saddam for whatever reason, oil, revenge for papa Bush, etc.)

Take it as hear-say, and I know that I have mentioned this before. But I worked with an elderly lady who's son was in Afghanistan laying fiber optics before 9-11. He came home for a short while, then went to Iraq to do the same. And again, that was before the propaganda kicked in. He was in the Marines, and then went to a private contractor.

The worst thing we ever do is vote in the other party, who must be in on the conspiracy too if what the troofers say is correct.

There is no concise agreement from the "troofers." It's like saying that Atheist have a central dogma. Oh, except none of them believe in "pods attached to the plans." That guy who originally said it, as it turns out, was paid to say it by a pentagon funded PR group. Awesome!

I think the majority of them believe that there was collusion across a broad range of "elite," but no central group. And I am not implying that it was a large group at all.

Ohh, for this, well, don't look at me. I'm not at all convinced about the thermite and aided demolition hypotheses, and judging from earlier posts Jay's not going to bother trying to convince us.

What about the people who were inside the buildings that day who said their were bombs? What about Manny Ramirez? Because of the witnesses It was widely reported that day that there were bombs, but later they stopped saying that and covering that aspect.

I think that the biggest boost to any other explanation is that NIST failed to prove that the buildings came down from a fire. They manipulated the data (including adding extra jet fuel, knocking away support columns and removing the buildings fire shielding) and even then their own models failed to collapse. And they refuse to examine what happened to the buildings after they started to collapse. They never investigated any claims of bombs, and threw out a lot of witness testimony (including first responders). So to recapp:
1) NIST manipulated the data to make the buildings collapse and then claimed that is how it happened
2) NIST didn't investigate anything after the initial collapse began
3) Their own models wont collapse even after the data manipulation
4) They made it all up

The truth is that NIST, the commission, and their conclusions actually hurt the 9-11 investigation. It's fine to say that you don't believe that bombs brought the towers down. I don't have anything personally invested in this. But the evidence that the plans brought the towers down is at least, in part, completely made-up. I discussed this in that thread I linked. And I am talking about all three towers that fell that day here.

First of all, the events you listed were 1.uncovered and 2. More importantly, NOT MASS MURDER. They may have been immoral and led to some deaths, but they were not the planned mass murder of innocent civilians.

And to your point about Afghanistan, of course we had ops there before the attack. Do you remember the highly publicized "Bin Laden determined to attack in the US" document? We knw Al-Qaeda was a threat for terrorism before they attacked. I'm sure we probably have some people in Pakistan at the moment too. Does that mean the US government is going to blow up the Empire State Building and then blame it on Pakistan.

Obviously I think the motivations for blowing up our own buildings is rediculous but we will have to agree to disagree on that point. However, basing your arguments on speculation and on the lack of "evidence" because you think the government is covering it up does not a conspiracy make. (Went Yoda on your ass )

[AgentSmith88]

If Pearl Harbour was a conspiracy, would you still consider it a good conspiracy considering the results?

It was great for America. Sure they had a few battleships sunk in the harbour and approx. 3000 Americans got killed, but they (the country) went onto becoming a huge factory for making weapons for the allies. Safe from being bombed due to the 2 rather large oceans that border it. They made a ton of money from that war. All they needed was the right episode to make all Americans ok with them entering it.

England went from superpower to super in debt to the Americans during ww2. We only just finished paying off the WW2 debt 1 year before 9/11. then it was iraq, afganistan then the banks imploded.

England has been dealt 60 years of shit, whilst the defeated Germans and Japs went onto build greater manufacturing bases (no armies after ww2) than the home of the industrial revolution, England. Now since that, the pen pushers have decided it's cheaper to make stuff somewhere else and pay some Indian or Chinese worker f*ck all to make a tv, playstation, mobile phone etc.


So yeah, Japan attacking pearl harbour was a great bit of business for America. 3000 dead v the $ income = win win for the USA economy.

Your from UK, cool, me too. 100% agree with what you said, WWII was the best thing to ever happen to the USA.

you meant winning WWII was the best thing....

As much as it pains me to agree with phatscotty,I do. It may be cliche and arrogant, but the US did save Europe's ass (that includes the UK) in WWII. If you'd rather we had stayed out, I think you brits may be speaking German at the moment....

[jay_a2j]

The heavy majority of the deaths occurred from where the planes hit the tower and the floors above that point

Why do I seriously doubt that?

Good question. I mean, they evacuated the buildings and surrounding area to the best of their abilities, and the towers collapsed into themselves. Although I'm sure there were some deaths from the collapse, it isn't like the building fell over sideways into a busy street.

People were told to "go back in" and some did. I saw an interview of someone telling of a person who came out of the building but went back in because they were told it would be "ok" and they ended up dieing that day. Not to mention all the firefighters, police etc. that were in the building. The casualties would have been in the hundreds not close to 3,000 if the majority of people below where the planes hit were out of the building. Yeah it didn't "fall over sideways" like it probably should have, it came straight down like a demolition.

[thegreekdog]

I'm anti-this thread, but I want to make this one little post...

Now, I'm not an engineer (I just play one on TV), but I want you conspiracy theorists to grab a game of Jenga. Put it all together to make a nice little tower. Pick somewhere in the middle and pull out the blocks. When it eventually collapses, the blocks go straight down. If they go sideways, please exit the wind tunnel you are in and try again.

[Juan_Bottom]

People were told to "go back in" and some did. I saw an interview of someone telling of a person who came out of the building but went back in because they were told it would be "ok" and they ended up dieing that day. Not to mention all the firefighters, police etc. that were in the building. The casualties would have been in the hundreds not close to 3,000 if the majority of people below where the planes hit were out of the building. Yeah it didn't "fall over sideways" like it probably should have, it came straight down like a demolition.

The man who built the towers died that day because he didn't leave the building.

First of all, the events you listed were 1.uncovered and 2. More importantly, NOT MASS MURDER. They may have been immoral and led to some deaths, but they were not the planned mass murder of innocent civilians.

Would you prefer that I list US government approved/sanctioned mass murders?
And your #1 point is irrelevant since that is EXACTLY what we are discussing. I was making a counter-point to what you were saying about how your government loves you, and all of it's citizens do too. Or how we could never find foreign nationals to do our dirty work. I think that you have already forgotten that.

And to your point about Afghanistan, of course we had ops there before the attack.

That wasn't a point, it was hearsay. And he wasn't there on any normal mission. He was laying fiber-optic communication lines in preparation for the invasions. Both invasions.

Obviously I think the motivations for blowing up our own buildings is rediculous but we will have to agree to disagree on that point. However, basing your arguments on speculation and on the lack of "evidence" because you think the government is covering it up does not a conspiracy make.

It's the definition of a conspiracy. We know that NIST, and the Pentagon have lied and colluded in data manipulation. And I don't think anyone here disagrees on that point. Well, that alone is a conspiracy. I'm just painting a wider picture to say "why do they need to lie?" (of course I am speaking in generalities) But! The only speculation that I am making is in the questions that I am not asking.
And anyway, when you say that blowing up our own anything is a silly proposition, I would remind you that Operation North Woods is a declassified plan to do exactly that. Kill an American Pilot, blow up an American plane, and use the following public outcry as an excuse to invade a sovereign foreign nation where we have no sphere of influence. Just like the "remember the Maine!" war cry.

[jay_a2j]

I'm anti-this thread, but I want to make this one little post...

Now, I'm not an engineer (I just play one on TV), but I want you conspiracy theorists to grab a game of Jenga. Put it all together to make a nice little tower. Pick somewhere in the middle and pull out the blocks. When it eventually collapses, the blocks go straight down. If they go sideways, please exit the wind tunnel you are in and try again.

I don't know what kind of magical Jenga you are playing but it does not fall straight down. It collapses at the weakest point (where the block was pulled from) because you have removed a piece that was holding up the rest of the pieces.

(Not only that, the pieces in Jenga go all the way through the "tower", the planes did not, which would make the building unstable on the side that was hit, making it "fall over" not straight down.)

[Pedronicus]

If Pearl Harbour was a conspiracy, would you still consider it a good conspiracy considering the results?

It was great for America. Sure they had a few battleships sunk in the harbour and approx. 3000 Americans got killed, but they (the country) went onto becoming a huge factory for making weapons for the allies. Safe from being bombed due to the 2 rather large oceans that border it. They made a ton of money from that war. All they needed was the right episode to make all Americans ok with them entering it.

England went from superpower to super in debt to the Americans during ww2. We only just finished paying off the WW2 debt 1 year before 9/11. then it was iraq, afganistan then the banks imploded.

England has been dealt 60 years of shit, whilst the defeated Germans and Japs went onto build greater manufacturing bases (no armies after ww2) than the home of the industrial revolution, England. Now since that, the pen pushers have decided it's cheaper to make stuff somewhere else and pay some Indian or Chinese worker f*ck all to make a tv, playstation, mobile phone etc.


So yeah, Japan attacking pearl harbour was a great bit of business for America. 3000 dead v the $ income = win win for the USA economy.

Your from UK, cool, me too. 100% agree with what you said, WWII was the best thing to ever happen to the USA.

you meant winning WWII was the best thing....

As much as it pains me to agree with phatscotty,I do. It may be cliche and arrogant, but the US did save Europe's ass (that includes the UK) in WWII. If you'd rather we had stayed out, I think you brits may be speaking German at the moment....

you didn't save our arses. If you hadn't of gotten involved 3 things would of happened
1. you wouldn't of sold millions of dollars worth of ships, oil, tanks, planes and everything else that you sold us to carry on fighting.
2. you would of been speaking german, because technology wise the germans were light years ahead of America. England was an unsinkable aircraft carrier that allowed American planes and tanks to be let loose against the germans
3. The russians would of won the war and communism would of taken hold of Europe and cut off your biggest market.

All this 'We saved your sorry arses' is American bullshit. England were fighting the Nazis because it was the right thing to do. We hadn't been invaded as such, but we took up arms against the aggressors of Poland and France and Belgium and we fought. We didn't invade anywhere. We just knew what was right.

[AgentSmith88]

If Pearl Harbour was a conspiracy, would you still consider it a good conspiracy considering the results?

It was great for America. Sure they had a few battleships sunk in the harbour and approx. 3000 Americans got killed, but they (the country) went onto becoming a huge factory for making weapons for the allies. Safe from being bombed due to the 2 rather large oceans that border it. They made a ton of money from that war. All they needed was the right episode to make all Americans ok with them entering it.

England went from superpower to super in debt to the Americans during ww2. We only just finished paying off the WW2 debt 1 year before 9/11. then it was iraq, afganistan then the banks imploded.

England has been dealt 60 years of shit, whilst the defeated Germans and Japs went onto build greater manufacturing bases (no armies after ww2) than the home of the industrial revolution, England. Now since that, the pen pushers have decided it's cheaper to make stuff somewhere else and pay some Indian or Chinese worker f*ck all to make a tv, playstation, mobile phone etc.


So yeah, Japan attacking pearl harbour was a great bit of business for America. 3000 dead v the $ income = win win for the USA economy.

Your from UK, cool, me too. 100% agree with what you said, WWII was the best thing to ever happen to the USA.

As much as it pains me to agree with phatscotty,I do. It may be cliche and arrogant, but the US did save Europe's ass (that includes the UK) in WWII. If you'd rather we had stayed out, I think you brits may be speaking German at the moment....

you didn't save our arses. If you hadn't of gotten involved 3 things would of happened
1. you wouldn't of sold millions of dollars worth of ships, oil, tanks, planes and everything else that you sold us to carry on fighting.
2. you would of been speaking german, because technology wise the germans were light years ahead of America. England was an unsinkable aircraft carrier that allowed American planes and tanks to be let loose against the germans
3. The russians would of won the war and communism would of taken hold of Europe and cut off your biggest market.

All this 'We saved your sorry arses' is American bullshit. England were fighting the Nazis because it was the right thing to do. We hadn't been invaded as such, but we took up arms against the aggressors of Poland and France and Belgium and we fought. We didn't invade anywhere. We just knew what was right.

You need to go back and re-check your history book. Yes, England was trying to put up a fight. However, before the US joined the war London was being bombed to hell. You guys couldn't help to stop Germany's march across Europe. Now maybe Germany would have had a hard time taking the island and maybe not, but don't be delusional into thinking that you could have repelled Germany by yourself, let alone HELP retake France and then march to Germany. Also, if Germany hadn't had a western front, they could have sent more troops and supplies and easily taken Russia. The Russian winter weather repelled the German advance, not the waves of soldiers Stalin sent at them.

You are right in the fact that without England, the US wouldn't have been able to mount an offensive in Europe. We needed air bases and a base of operations to attack from. However, you Brits make it sound like you had everything under control and we joined to gain power. Neither was the case.

And by the way, we had already sold millions of dollars worth of war weapons, materials, etc. to the allies before joining the war. Pearl Harbor may have been the set off point, but Germans sinking supply ships in the Atlantic headed to England certainly got us thinking about joining the war long before that.

Oh yeah, and we lost millions of lives of soldiers in the war as well. Not just the men who died on Pearl Harbor.

[luns101]

I'm anti-this thread, but I want to make this one little post...

Now, I'm not an engineer (I just play one on TV), but I want you conspiracy theorists to grab a game of Jenga. Put it all together to make a nice little tower. Pick somewhere in the middle and pull out the blocks. When it eventually collapses, the blocks go straight down. If they go sideways, please exit the wind tunnel you are in and try again.

Nice try, but you are grasping at straws (or in this case Jenga blocks with traces of a thermite reaction). Care to explain this?:

[muy_thaiguy]

I'm anti-this thread, but I want to make this one little post...

Now, I'm not an engineer (I just play one on TV), but I want you conspiracy theorists to grab a game of Jenga. Put it all together to make a nice little tower. Pick somewhere in the middle and pull out the blocks. When it eventually collapses, the blocks go straight down. If they go sideways, please exit the wind tunnel you are in and try again.

Nice try, but you are grasping at straws (or in this case Jenga blocks with traces of a thermite reaction). Care to explain this?:

You batted it over with your awful helmet.

[Phatscotty]

How can those Jenga blocks fall at the rate of gravity?

[Woodruff]

I'm anti-this thread, but I want to make this one little post...

Now, I'm not an engineer (I just play one on TV), but I want you conspiracy theorists to grab a game of Jenga. Put it all together to make a nice little tower. Pick somewhere in the middle and pull out the blocks. When it eventually collapses, the blocks go straight down. If they go sideways, please exit the wind tunnel you are in and try again.

I don't know what kind of magical Jenga you are playing but it does not fall straight down. It collapses at the weakest point (where the block was pulled from) because you have removed a piece that was holding up the rest of the pieces.

(Not only that, the pieces in Jenga go all the way through the "tower", the planes did not, which would make the building unstable on the side that was hit, making it "fall over" not straight down.)

Think of a magician that pulls the tablecloth off of a dishware-laden table. Same concept as thegreekdog is trying to show, I believe.

[Pedronicus]

Oh yeah, and we lost millions of lives of soldiers in the war as well. Not just the men who died on Pearl Harbor.

american total lives lost in ww2 418,500. i know an american billion is different to a european billion, but a million is a million and 418,500 isn't in the millions numb nuts.

[Phatscotty]

Click image to enlarge.

[pimpdave]

Wait, what? Luns, are you seriously one of these 9/11 douche bags?

Please say you were making a joke. It would be incredibly disappointing if you were being sincere.

All of you really need to watch this video if you haven't already. Anyone who was there that day can tell you that things were damned confusing at the time, and anyone with any sense or intelligence knows not to accept your initial impressions as reality. The shock of it alone can be... well, you can't trust your judgment, all you can trust is training, and if you've received no training, then you need listen to those who have. Such as structural engineers or physicists.

I can't believe I'm even continuing to entertain this bottom-feeding thread. Better people than most of you posting in here died that day, and you spit on their graves with your lies and willful ignorance. Get an education.

Screw Loose Change: The Not Freakin' Again Edition

It's incredibly painful to read this thread. Especially since pretty much none of you were even there. Watching it on TV doesn't count, and taking a janitor's word for it is just plain stupid when there are structural engineers explaining just exactly why what happened occurred.

You 9/11 truther douche bags just have your presupposition and only see what helps make that fantasy more believable to you. I'm glad you have such active imaginations, but leave that firmly in the realm of fantasy, not a serious reality.

[Frigidus]

How can those Jenga blocks fall at the rate of gravity?

Holy shit, I'm convinced.

[Juan_Bottom]

then you need listen to those who have. Such as structural engineers or physicists.

There are structural engineers and physicists on both sides. They have their own web site. In my experience, for them it's a lot like being an Atheist is for the American public. There is a ton more of them out there than will casually admit it because they are afraid. It's only the people who start out with a conclusion already established that you shouldn't listen too. They make their facts fit the conclusion. Like Creationists.

Wait, what? Luns, are you seriously one of these 9/11 douche bags?

Please say you were making a joke. It would be incredibly disappointing if you were being sincere.

He was making a joke.

It's incredibly painful to read this thread. Especially since pretty much none of you were even there. Watching it on TV doesn't count, and taking a janitor's word for it is just plain stupid when there are structural engineers explaining just exactly why what happened occurred.

Hold on here. Now I am was not saying that I take all the witness's words for the truth. In fact I don't. I was just arguing a point. The Janitor's word however I do hold in somewhat high esteem. In his own words he said that he never even knew a plan struck the building until he got outside. He said that he heard a huge explosion (he thought it was) on the roof. Naturally he took it that a generator exploded on the roof. Because of this, he didn't want to take the elevator up, so he took the stairs. He made it only a few flights when he heard a huge explosion from below him. And still, there was no one around so he decided to get out of the building immediately because he thought that there must be terrorists bombs all over it. His testimony was stricken from the record. But seriously, how do you f*ck that up?
Another point that I was making is that NIST lied. Listening to them doesn't count because they manipulated all the data, and they STILL couldn't get their models to collapse. They kept making stuff up to make it seem more plausible that the planes could make the towers collapse. THey never proved anything. I get it that seeing it on TV doesn't count. I absolutely do, but I don't see how NIST's explanation counts.

[pimpdave]

then you need listen to those who have. Such as structural engineers or physicists.

There are structural engineers and physicists on both sides.

No there aren't. There are structural engineers debunking the 2 or 3 QUACKS on the other side. The kind of guys who went to Hollywood Upstairs Medical College for their fucking "expertise".

Juan, stop listening to Alex Jones. Honestly.

[pimpdave]

Hold on here. Now I am was not saying that I take all the witness's words for the truth. In fact I don't. I was just arguing a point. The Janitor's word however I do hold in somewhat high esteem. In his own words he said that he never even knew a plan struck the building until he got outside. He said that he heard a huge explosion (he thought it was) on the roof.

None of us had any clue what was going on, and on the street, most of us thought it was private jets that hit the building. That's why so many of us stayed nearby. We never thought they were going to come down.

I can't keep doing this. I'm done.

Have fun. I can't do this to myself. I can't argue this again. You won't believe me, anyway, since you want to believe it was an inside job.

[BigBallinStalin]

Hold on here. Now I am was not saying that I take all the witness's words for the truth. In fact I don't. I was just arguing a point. The Janitor's word however I do hold in somewhat high esteem. In his own words he said that he never even knew a plan struck the building until he got outside. He said that he heard a huge explosion (he thought it was) on the roof.

None of us had any clue what was going on, and on the street, most of us thought it was private jets that hit the building. That's why so many of us stayed nearby. We never thought they were going to come down.

I can't keep doing this. I'm done.

Have fun. I can't do this to myself. I can't argue this again. You won't believe me, anyway, since you want to believe it was an inside job.

Thanks for that link to that movie. It's been most helpful at debunking much of what I've heard about the alleged inside job on the Twin Towers.

[pimpdave]

There is such a thing as the "fog of war", BBS. There are always going to be unanswered questions. There will always be confusion coming from eye witnesses. That video maybe didn't cover everything the self-righteous wastes of life who blather on about this like to mention, but it covers more than enough and if people really care, more can be found elsewhere.

The fact is that the facts lean FAR FAR FAR more towards to the reality of planes taking down the buildings than some "inside job" can be concocted out of exploiting confusion.

And now I really am done with this thread. But of course, some other shithead will start a new one in a few months. Without fail, always happens.

[BigBallinStalin]

There is such a thing as the "fog of war", BBS. There are always going to be unanswered questions. There will always be confusion coming from eye witnesses. That video maybe didn't cover everything the self-righteous wastes of life who blather on about this like to mention, but it covers more than enough and if people really care, more can be found elsewhere.

The fact is that the facts lean FAR FAR FAR more towards to the reality of planes taking down the buildings than some "inside job" can be concocted out of exploiting confusion.

And now I really am done with this thread. But of course, some other shithead will start a new one in a few months. Without fail, always happens.

Don't fret, I'll just copy and paste what you wrote when that time comes. Should be easy.