Power Role Draft Mafia - Town Wins!

[nagerous]

I agreed with Everywhere's earlier statement. Why not wait till Day Three? The night will tell us more.

No. I don't want more people killed, but I don't think we're going to get the vig to claim nor should we even want a townie vig to claim without a doctor or any compelling reason to believe that the vig is scum. I think discussing the possibility is fine, but actively hunting for him is too risky.

If the town vig shot freezie or raigan, then (s)he is an idiot. The only problem I have is that the JOAT may be the one that shot. Although I would expect the mafia to get vig anyway. The vig should definitely claim if townie, I'd much rather lose a vig than a watcher/tracker/cop.

Anyway the main point is that removal of the vig gives us an extra day compared with removal of standard mafia. If we lynch blue today then it is MYLO and we will likely have straight up counter claims tomorrow aka a coin toss.

You're running on the assumption that the vig made the kill and that the vig is mafia. What is s/he didn't make the kill and s/he's town? Then by making them come forward just so you can lynch them does not benefit the town. All you're doing then is losing a town PR and putting town into a worse position. And no way is anyone going to say "Oh yeah, I'm the vig and I'm Town" because they know you just want to lynch the vig no matter their alignment.

Fastposted. I've been writing Nag.

Yes but you've avoided the question.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

I agreed with Everywhere's earlier statement. Why not wait till Day Three? The night will tell us more.

No. I don't want more people killed, but I don't think we're going to get the vig to claim nor should we even want a townie vig to claim without a doctor or any compelling reason to believe that the vig is scum. I think discussing the possibility is fine, but actively hunting for him is too risky.

If the town vig shot freezie or raigan, then (s)he is an idiot. The only problem I have is that the JOAT may be the one that shot. Although I would expect the mafia to get vig anyway. The vig should definitely claim if townie, I'd much rather lose a vig than a watcher/tracker/cop.

Anyway the main point is that removal of the vig gives us an extra day compared with removal of standard mafia. If we lynch blue today then it is MYLO and we will likely have straight up counter claims tomorrow aka a coin toss.

You're running on the assumption that the vig made the kill and that the vig is mafia. What is s/he didn't make the kill and s/he's town? Then by making them come forward just so you can lynch them does not benefit the town. All you're doing then is losing a town PR and putting town into a worse position. And no way is anyone going to say "Oh yeah, I'm the vig and I'm Town" because they know you just want to lynch the vig no matter their alignment.

Fastposted. I've been writing Nag.

Yes but you've avoided the question.

I agree you avoided the question. At least tell were it was on your list.

[edocsil]

Yes that would be nice. Is there anyone who can narrow the vig window down?

Also, if the vig is town he should just straight up claim and explain why he killed or place blame on the JOAT if he didn't.

This could work.

2) somebody's lying ~ duh? Not like the vig is gonna claim...

Why the change of heart?

Think on it. Anyhow, I want to hear from soundman before explaining.

[pmchugh]

That sounded like a vig soft claim right there.

[spiesr]

That sounded like a vig soft claim right there.

Nagerous said that vig was taken before he went. Edocsil went after Nagerous. So, either Nagerous lied or Edocsil can't be the vig.

[pmchugh]

That sounded like a vig soft claim right there.

Nagerous said that vig was taken before he went. Edocsil went after Nagerous. So, either Nagerous lied or Edocsil can't be the vig.

I meant from soundman

I agreed with Everywhere's earlier statement. Why not wait till Day Three? The night will tell us more.

No. I don't want more people killed, but I don't think we're going to get the vig to claim nor should we even want a townie vig to claim without a doctor or any compelling reason to believe that the vig is scum. I think discussing the possibility is fine, but actively hunting for him is too risky.

If the town vig shot freezie or raigan, then (s)he is an idiot. The only problem I have is that the JOAT may be the one that shot. Although I would expect the mafia to get vig anyway. The vig should definitely claim if townie, I'd much rather lose a vig than a watcher/tracker/cop.

Anyway the main point is that removal of the vig gives us an extra day compared with removal of standard mafia. If we lynch blue today then it is MYLO and we will likely have straight up counter claims tomorrow aka a coin toss.

You're running on the assumption that the vig made the kill and that the vig is mafia. What is s/he didn't make the kill and s/he's town? Then by making them come forward just so you can lynch them does not benefit the town. All you're doing then is losing a town PR and putting town into a worse position. And no way is anyone going to say "Oh yeah, I'm the vig and I'm Town" because they know you just want to lynch the vig no matter their alignment.

Fastposted. I've been writing Nag.

[edocsil]

That sounded like a vig soft claim right there.

Nagerous said that vig was taken before he went. Edocsil went after Nagerous. So, either Nagerous lied or Edocsil can't be the vig.

Not the vig, and that wasn't in reference to me anyhow I guess, didn't see that first pass through.

So best guess atm is that sound is our vig.

Yes that would be nice. Is there anyone who can narrow the vig window down?

Also, if the vig is town he should just straight up claim and explain why he killed or place blame on the JOAT if he didn't.

This could work.

2) somebody's lying ~ duh? Not like the vig is gonna claim...

Why the change of heart?

We were more or less trying to trick a scum vig into claiming town vig, and I was doing my best to see if the thought through to its end. We would then go and hang them and not feel bad about it. IF it was a vig kill there are only two options, noob vig that was overeager, or scum vig that killed because it was best to kill every night possible.

As this stands if the kill was a vig kill we should hang sound, as I believe that was a softclaimed vig there. What we now need to do is examine if the kill came from a scum joat or a vig of unknown alignment. If we feel that the joat kill is more likely, it might be better to let sound live. However if we do hang him and he flips town, we will know that there is a scum joat pretty much for certain.

Anyhow, pcm this is your party, how do you think we should proceed?

[pmchugh]

Anyhow, pcm this is your party, how do you think we should proceed?

I think soundman should tell us if he is the vig, if he refuses to claim I would lynch upon the assumption he is a mafia vig. If he claims vig and that he didn't kill last night then the solution is simple, we tell him not to kill tonight and we lynch whoever we suspect to be mafia most regardless of draft position. Whether soundman is mafia or not, we have reduced the number of kills to 1.

If he claims not to be the vig, then the vig is mafia and we have to do a bit of scum hunting.

[edocsil]

Anyhow, pcm this is your party, how do you think we should proceed?

I think soundman should tell us if he is the vig, if he refuses to claim I would lynch upon the assumption he is a mafia vig. If he claims vig and that he didn't kill last night then the solution is simple, we tell him not to kill tonight and we lynch whoever we suspect to be mafia most regardless of draft position. Whether soundman is mafia or not, we have reduced the number of kills to 1.

If he claims not to be the vig, then the vig is mafia and we have to do a bit of scum hunting.

Didn't think of that.

[everywhere116]

Every "Ms." you'll meet is single, sound.

[everywhere116]

Anyhow, pcm this is your party, how do you think we should proceed?

I think soundman should tell us if he is the vig, if he refuses to claim I would lynch upon the assumption he is a mafia vig. If he claims vig and that he didn't kill last night then the solution is simple, we tell him not to kill tonight and we lynch whoever we suspect to be mafia most regardless of draft position. Whether soundman is mafia or not, we have reduced the number of kills to 1.

If he claims not to be the vig, then the vig is mafia and we have to do a bit of scum hunting.

This makes sense.

[soundman]

Very well. Vig was number two on my list. From page 36:

On another note, I have a feeling that the second kill was a JOAT kill and not a vig kill. If it was a JOAT kill then there should only be one kill tonight unless the vig decides to shoot someone.

[everywhere116]

Ahh yes, I remember that now. At the time I thought it was an obvious softclaim. Speisr didn't get it (or feigned not getting it). I was going to correct him, but thought that pointing you out would have gotten you killed.

Considering that La Vendedor de Todas Cosas hasn't claimed yet despite knowing that he is responsible for Ragian's or Freezie's death, and assuming that you aren't lying, the odds are good that he is scum. But, obviously, unable to kill again.

[pmchugh]

Very well. Vig was number two on my list. From page 36:

On another note, I have a feeling that the second kill was a JOAT kill and not a vig kill. If it was a JOAT kill then there should only be one kill tonight unless the vig decides to shoot someone.

OK well please don't kill tonight.

Ahh yes, I remember that now. At the time I thought it was an obvious softclaim. Speisr didn't get it (or feigned not getting it). I was going to correct him, but thought that pointing you out would have gotten you killed.

Considering that La Vendedor de Todas Cosas hasn't claimed yet despite knowing that he is responsible for Ragian's or Freezie's death, and assuming that you aren't lying, the odds are good that he is scum. But, obviously, unable to kill again.

Why on earth would the JOAT choose to kill night 1, rather than investigate or block? If soundman is telling the truth then I doubt that the JOAT is a townie.

I think now we have to do the same thing for the JOAT as the vig. I like this less but I simply don't believe that one of those kills was performed by a townie. What does everyone else think?

[edocsil]

Very well. Vig was number two on my list. From page 36:

On another note, I have a feeling that the second kill was a JOAT kill and not a vig kill. If it was a JOAT kill then there should only be one kill tonight unless the vig decides to shoot someone.

OK well please don't kill tonight.

Ahh yes, I remember that now. At the time I thought it was an obvious softclaim. Speisr didn't get it (or feigned not getting it). I was going to correct him, but thought that pointing you out would have gotten you killed.

Considering that La Vendedor de Todas Cosas hasn't claimed yet despite knowing that he is responsible for Ragian's or Freezie's death, and assuming that you aren't lying, the odds are good that he is scum. But, obviously, unable to kill again.

Why on earth would the JOAT choose to kill night 1, rather than investigate or block? If soundman is telling the truth then I doubt that the JOAT is a townie.

I think now we have to do the same thing for the JOAT as the vig. I like this less but I simply don't believe that one of those kills was performed by a townie. What does everyone else think?

Honesty, I don't even see if a scum JOAT would kill n1, and such a low value target as well. (numbers wise) it would make more sense to save it, and then take a pot shot at a high value target later. Of all the possible killers I believe only a scum vig should rationally kill N1. The cost is too high for the others.

I actually thought that you two (pcm and everywhere) where trying to trick soundman into admitting to be the vig so you could just hang him with a fairly clear conscious.

[ghostly447]

Very well. Vig was number two on my list. From page 36:

On another note, I have a feeling that the second kill was a JOAT kill and not a vig kill. If it was a JOAT kill then there should only be one kill tonight unless the vig decides to shoot someone.

OK well please don't kill tonight.

Ahh yes, I remember that now. At the time I thought it was an obvious softclaim. Speisr didn't get it (or feigned not getting it). I was going to correct him, but thought that pointing you out would have gotten you killed.

Considering that La Vendedor de Todas Cosas hasn't claimed yet despite knowing that he is responsible for Ragian's or Freezie's death, and assuming that you aren't lying, the odds are good that he is scum. But, obviously, unable to kill again.

Why on earth would the JOAT choose to kill night 1, rather than investigate or block? If soundman is telling the truth then I doubt that the JOAT is a townie.

I think now we have to do the same thing for the JOAT as the vig. I like this less but I simply don't believe that one of those kills was performed by a townie. What does everyone else think?

Honesty, I don't even see if a scum JOAT would kill n1, and such a low value target as well. (numbers wise) it would make more sense to save it, and then take a pot shot at a high value target later. Of all the possible killers I believe only a scum vig should rationally kill N1. The cost is too high for the others.

I actually thought that you two (pcm and everywhere) where trying to trick soundman into admitting to be the vig so you could just hang him with a fairly clear conscious.

Im not sure if I am putting a scum twist on this or not, but that last sentence of yours sounds like you are really wanting us to lynch the vig. I dont know if I am correct, but that is what it sounds like, and it seems as though you are making a very big deal of lynching him without letting the vig explain himself. I understand that, no one has come out with a full out claim (though Im pretty sure its soudman), but there may be a reason for him doing so in this fashion.

FOS edoc if this is the case.

[everywhere116]

Very well. Vig was number two on my list. From page 36:

On another note, I have a feeling that the second kill was a JOAT kill and not a vig kill. If it was a JOAT kill then there should only be one kill tonight unless the vig decides to shoot someone.

OK well please don't kill tonight.

Ahh yes, I remember that now. At the time I thought it was an obvious softclaim. Speisr didn't get it (or feigned not getting it). I was going to correct him, but thought that pointing you out would have gotten you killed.

Considering that La Vendedor de Todas Cosas hasn't claimed yet despite knowing that he is responsible for Ragian's or Freezie's death, and assuming that you aren't lying, the odds are good that he is scum. But, obviously, unable to kill again.

Why on earth would the JOAT choose to kill night 1, rather than investigate or block? If soundman is telling the truth then I doubt that the JOAT is a townie.

I think now we have to do the same thing for the JOAT as the vig. I like this less but I simply don't believe that one of those kills was performed by a townie. What does everyone else think?

Honesty, I don't even see if a scum JOAT would kill n1, and such a low value target as well. (numbers wise) it would make more sense to save it, and then take a pot shot at a high value target later. Of all the possible killers I believe only a scum vig should rationally kill N1. The cost is too high for the others.

I actually thought that you two (pcm and everywhere) where trying to trick soundman into admitting to be the vig so you could just hang him with a fairly clear conscious.

Im not sure if I am putting a scum twist on this or not, but that last sentence of yours sounds like you are really wanting us to lynch the vig. I dont know if I am correct, but that is what it sounds like, and it seems as though you are making a very big deal of lynching him without letting the vig explain himself. I understand that, no one has come out with a full out claim (though Im pretty sure its soudman), but there may be a reason for him doing so in this fashion.

FOS edoc if this is the case.

Well he did already explain himself: He said that he didn't kill anybody. Assuming that he's telling the truth, that only leaves a JOAT kill.

PMC, if it is a JOAT kill, we don't need to go after him the same way that we went after the vig. No point. No more townies will die by his hands. The only thing we need to do is good ol' fashioned scum hunting.

[pmchugh]

PMC, if it is a JOAT kill, we don't need to go after him the same way that we went after the vig. No point. No more townies will die by his hands. The only thing we need to do is good ol' fashioned scum hunting.

That is true on one hand but on the other it would be a very easy pick out. JOAT was top of my list and probably most other peoples, I am fairly certain we could work out who the JOAT is. If we believe soundman then the JOAT must be mafia (or else very stupid), would finding the JOAT not be a good way to scumhunt?

You are right however, we can assume that there will only be one kill per night from now on. This gives us 2 mislynches rather than 1, so it is not necessary to JOAT hunt. If someone has a decent case I will be happy to listen to it.

[everywhere116]

Well, I've never dropped my suspicions on ghostly. I was just willing to postpone that because of the necessity of finding the vig.

[dazza2008]

I think that if the Vig. is town then we know the JOAT is scum so a JOAT would be good to avoid a mislynch. It gets us a scum lynch and a night of actions hopefully with another suspect.

I would rather find the JOAT today than risk the mislynch.

Fastposted.

I agree. I am also still suspicious but I think the JOAT would make more sense.

[Djfireside]

PMC, if it is a JOAT kill, we don't need to go after him the same way that we went after the vig. No point. No more townies will die by his hands. The only thing we need to do is good ol' fashioned scum hunting.

That is true on one hand but on the other it would be a very easy pick out. JOAT was top of my list and probably most other peoples, I am fairly certain we could work out who the JOAT is. If we believe soundman then the JOAT must be mafia (or else very stupid), would finding the JOAT not be a good way to scumhunt?

You are right however, we can assume that there will only be one kill per night from now on. This gives us 2 mislynches rather than 1, so it is not necessary to JOAT hunt. If someone has a decent case I will be happy to listen to it.

The JOAT was also on the top of my list and Im third but I didnt get it either so that limits that down to 2. This was also the reason I was trying to determine the methods of kills earlier.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

I think that if the Vig. is town then we know the JOAT is scum so a JOAT would be good to avoid a mislynch. It gets us a scum lynch and a night of actions hopefully with another suspect.

I would rather find the JOAT today than risk the mislynch.

Fastposted.

I agree. I am also still suspicious but I think the JOAT would make more sense.

i actually completly agree with this except for the part about knowing that if one is town the other is mafia because all roles were given randomly (according to your number) so wouldnt it be possible that both are town?

[dazza2008]

I think that if the Vig. is town then we know the JOAT is scum so a JOAT would be good to avoid a mislynch. It gets us a scum lynch and a night of actions hopefully with another suspect.

I would rather find the JOAT today than risk the mislynch.

Fastposted.

I agree. I am also still suspicious but I think the JOAT would make more sense.

i actually completly agree with this except for the part about knowing that if one is town the other is mafia because all roles were given randomly (according to your number) so wouldnt it be possible that both are town?

2 people died. So scum has one of them roles or a wreckless townie. If it had been a wreckless townie they should have came out and said so before it got to this. So I think it is safe to assume it is scum who carried out the 2 kills.

[Some7hingCLEVER]

I think that if the Vig. is town then we know the JOAT is scum so a JOAT would be good to avoid a mislynch. It gets us a scum lynch and a night of actions hopefully with another suspect.

I would rather find the JOAT today than risk the mislynch.

Fastposted.

I agree. I am also still suspicious but I think the JOAT would make more sense.

i actually completly agree with this except for the part about knowing that if one is town the other is mafia because all roles were given randomly (according to your number) so wouldnt it be possible that both are town?

2 people died. So scum has one of them roles or a wreckless townie. If it had been a wreckless townie they should have came out and said so before it got to this. So I think it is safe to assume it is scum who carried out the 2 kills.

alright sorry sometimes i get confused and need it fed to me like a baby lol
but that makes sense, so we should try and find the JOAT then?

[pmchugh]

Well one of soundman, alt and drunkmonkey killed last night. Who is owning up to it?