Conquer Club

Troll?

Ha Ha
The final desperate flailing of a drowning man, your credibility is now pretty much zero

Juan_Bottom wrote:

heavycola wrote:assumptions, half-truths and outright fabrications.

SO DID CHENY LIE OR NOT???

Dunno. That someone in the thick of things later contradicted themselvess about their whereabouts that morning is unimportant. It's certainly not evidence that they were part of a conspiracy.

heavycola wrote:You're ignoring the point. YOU brought up Willie Brown and how he was warned not to fly on 9/11: It has been pointed out that he was never in any danger even if he had flown; that he is the last person a neocon elite conspiracy would warn; and that this piece of your 'evidence' actually shows how little intel knew about the wheres and how of the attacks.
yet you ignore it every time, or now you say it doesn; matter.

I was using that to argue your POV. If they had any idea of a plane attack, as Mr Grim was kind enough to point out that they did, then why did they not react? We know Cheny was certainly doing something.
When and where isn't important. after the first plane "disappeared, and later struck a tower, they knew just which planes where missing. Yet they DID NOTHING. A fact which you ignore. Could the fact that they did nothing be tied up wwith Cheny...yes....maybe....and?.... But all you're doing is dissmissing it.

Than ask yourself: how would they find the planes in that congested airspace without their transponders? Do they shoot them down over huge urban centres? What if they shoot the wrong plane down? Could you order the shooting down of a commercial airliner, let alone find it, over washington? What would you have done?
But that's your problem. You don't ask yourself anything, it seems. And no, you still haven't provided a reasonable answer as to how something this huge, involving everyone from NYPA staff to firefighters to civil servants, could be pulled off and kept quiet for 6 years.
But i expect it's not a question you have asked yourself too much, is it?

heavycola wrote:a) is there any documentary evidence for these 'doomsday planes'? eyewitnesses, CIA leaks, videos?
b) why, in this day and age, would planes need to be above buildings in order to attack them with other planes?
c) where did you hear this? Why are they named 'doomsday planes'?
etc
etc

They aren't important.

Fine, but remember it was you who brought them up...

And i'll try this again:

You're getting like jay, man, shutting yourself off from every reasonable answer to your suppositions and assumptions. What you should have done is take these allegations that you accept apparently unquestioningly from demonstrable frauds like alex jones, and look for the source material.

Then draw your own conclusions. It is what you would demand of creationists arguing against evolution, so why can you not apply that to yourself here?

heavycola wrote:
Dunno. That someone in the thick of things later contradicted themselvess about their whereabouts that morning is unimportant. It's certainly not evidence that they were part of a conspiracy.

Fine the, I guess. I can admit when I'm wrong and have. You don't have too admit to anything. But Dick Cheny's lie is a bedrock of the 911 truth movement, at least for me. If he did lie, then I ask, what was he actually doing? If you take Mineta's testimony, then there are only two likely answers.

heavycola wrote:Than ask yourself: how would they find the planes in that congested airspace without their transponders? Do they shoot them down over huge urban centres? What if they shoot the wrong plane down? Could you order the shooting down of a commercial airliner, let alone find it, over washington? What would you have done?

SOP would be to shoot them down. Especially in the case of the Pentagon.

heavycola wrote:But that's your problem. You don't ask yourself anything, it seems.

Excuse me? I reach a different conclusion than you, and that means that "I don't ask myself anything???"

heavycola wrote: And no, you still haven't provided a reasonable answer as to how something this huge, involving everyone from NYPA staff to firefighters to civil servants, could be pulled off and kept quiet for 6 years.
But i expect it's not a question you have asked yourself too much, is it?

It's unimportant to me. I have told you what I believe, whether you can see my point of view, with what I know or not, doesn't bother me. Who said firefighters or civil servants have to be involved? I have both on my side as well. I have Generals too. I don't care about that stuff.

heavycola wrote:You're getting like jay, man, shutting yourself off from every reasonable answer to your suppositions and assumptions.

I've listened to everything you've said, cheif. But the two dogs still inside the WTC aren't exactly the foundation of my opinions, get me? That is little stuff. I don't care how it was done, I just know that the official story doesn't work. especially in Cheny's case. Speculation is unimportant.
And for the record, I think you're shutting yourself off too.

heavycola wrote:. What you should have done is take these allegations that you accept apparently unquestioningly from demonstrable frauds like alex jones,

For the record, I just got the web in March, and had no idea who Mr. Jones was until the beggining of May.

And again for the record, he was right about Spider-Goats. I give him props for that one .

Consider this hearsay:
What actually got me into the idea of the government planning 911 was a co-workers stepson. He is in the Special Forces and was in Afgahnistan laying fiber-optics before 911. She told me that, and we were both puzzeled. We kind of discovered this together.
Anyway after Iraq he joined Blackwater.

Juan You have several times insisted that you have answered joes question and furthermore called him an idiot and troll for suggesting otherwise, now you openly admit that you didnt bother to answer because to you its irrelevent. So what are you, confused, a troll or simply a liar when it suits you ?

jay_a2j wrote:WHY DID HE LIE? WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE? WHY DON'T YOU CARE THAT HE LIED?

I think it probably has to do with his less than mediocre speaking skills than a deliberate lie. He has a history of both, but the other evidences tend to lead us to the former option.

Neoteny wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:WHY DID HE LIE? WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE? WHY DON'T YOU CARE THAT HE LIED?

I think it probably has to do with his less than mediocre speaking skills than a deliberate lie. He has a history of both, but the other evidences tend to lead us to the former option.

He said he saw something that he couldn't possibly have seen. You can't blame that on "speaking skills".

jay_a2j wrote:

Neoteny wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:WHY DID HE LIE? WHAT WAS THE PURPOSE? WHY DON'T YOU CARE THAT HE LIED?

I think it probably has to do with his less than mediocre speaking skills than a deliberate lie. He has a history of both, but the other evidences tend to lead us to the former option.

He said he saw something that he couldn't possibly have seen. You can't blame that on "speaking skills".

With Bush, you kinda can. Anyhow, if he was blatantly lying, the "liberal media" would surely jump on it. Remember when Hillary talked about running across the airstrip under sniper fire?

Neoteny wrote:
With Bush, you kinda can. Anyhow, if he was blatantly lying, the "liberal media" would surely jump on it. Remember when Hillary talked about running across the airstrip under sniper fire?

But then we must ignore the glaring difference. 911 (cover up) and Hillary running for president. The media is definitely in the Obama camp.

jay_a2j wrote:

Neoteny wrote:
With Bush, you kinda can. Anyhow, if he was blatantly lying, the "liberal media" would surely jump on it. Remember when Hillary talked about running across the airstrip under sniper fire?

But then we must ignore the glaring difference. 911 (cover up) and Hillary running for president. The media is definitely in the Obama camp.

Is that not the same camp as the anti-Bush camp?

I love this one.

I fear for the kids of this Greecepwns guy. either he's a tool or completely crazy

Snorri1234 wrote:I love this one.

And another.

Are we all going to dismiss the fact that Cheny lied so blatently? Why?

Juan_Bottom wrote:Are we all going to dismiss the fact that Cheny lied so blatently? Why?

Why not,you have dismissed the fact that you lied blatantly !

comic boy wrote:

Juan_Bottom wrote:Are we all going to dismiss the fact that Cheny lied so blatently? Why?

Why not,you have dismissed the fact that you lied blatantly !

Where did this thread start anew? Like page 24 or something? You must have missed where JOECAMELFROG mentioned that he only looked back as far as where he asked the question? And you obviously didn't bother looking.

You must have missed the part where I said that at max they would only need a couple of hundred people to pull it off? Or where I mentioned the bodies in tower 7? Or where I said that I hate to speculate? His question had been answered a long time ago, and I think that you owe me an apology. I'm sure that even BACKGLASS, or HC will tell you the same. In fact, I think it was Backglass who first got that out of me.

Juan_Bottom wrote:Are we all going to dismiss the fact that Cheny lied so blatently? Why?

As did Bush. But we will ignore that. It's NOT important. We all must accept whatever our government tells us, to not do so would make us (shudder) "unpatriotic" (shudder).

jay_a2j wrote:

Juan_Bottom wrote:Are we all going to dismiss the fact that Cheny lied so blatently? Why?

As did Bush. But we will ignore that. It's NOT important. We all must accept whatever our government tells us, to not do so would make us (shudder) "unpatriotic" (shudder).

I don't get it. It's part of the foundation of truth. Yet everyone wants to dismiss it. A lot of this stuff just gets dismissed.

To be fair, I don't have access to some of the stuff I started with, due to my permaban(news to me too). But the LOOSECHANGE FINAL EDITION film is free to view, and I'm certain qoutes the sources. I hated the original film, but really those guys do a good job. The radio show is awesome. No one even bothered with the PATRIOTQUESIONS link I posted either. I'm getting ganged up on, and yet...

Juan_Bottom wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

Juan_Bottom wrote:Are we all going to dismiss the fact that Cheny lied so blatently? Why?

As did Bush. But we will ignore that. It's NOT important. We all must accept whatever our government tells us, to not do so would make us (shudder) "unpatriotic" (shudder).

I don't get it. It's part of the foundation of truth. Yet everyone wants to dismiss it. A lot of this stuff just gets dismissed.

To be fair, I don't have access to some of the stuff I started with, due to my permaban(news to me too). But the LOOSECHANGE FINAL EDITION film is free to view, and I'm certain qoutes the sources. I hated the original film, but really those guys do a good job. The radio show is awesome. No one even bothered with the PATRIOTQUESIONS link I posted either. I'm getting ganged up on, and yet...

It is extremely likely that if Bush himself went on national TV and said, "I knew about 911 beforehand and helped cover it up." That HC, BG and the rest would call Bush a "conspiracy nut". I don't know why but they just will not stop for a minute and question ANYTHING about 911. (And there is plenty to question)

jay_a2j wrote:

Juan_Bottom wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

Juan_Bottom wrote:Are we all going to dismiss the fact that Cheny lied so blatently? Why?

As did Bush. But we will ignore that. It's NOT important. We all must accept whatever our government tells us, to not do so would make us (shudder) "unpatriotic" (shudder).

I don't get it. It's part of the foundation of truth. Yet everyone wants to dismiss it. A lot of this stuff just gets dismissed.

To be fair, I don't have access to some of the stuff I started with, due to my permaban(news to me too). But the LOOSECHANGE FINAL EDITION film is free to view, and I'm certain qoutes the sources. I hated the original film, but really those guys do a good job. The radio show is awesome. No one even bothered with the PATRIOTQUESIONS link I posted either. I'm getting ganged up on, and yet...

It is extremely likely that if Bush himself went on national TV and said, "I knew about 911 beforehand and helped cover it up." That HC, BG and the rest would call Bush a "conspiracy nut". I don't know why but they just will not stop for a minute and question ANYTHING about 911. (And there is plenty to question)

It's hard not to question these things. I'll tell you that most of us have questioned these things. That's the point of these threads. Your answers to our questions have been distinctly unsatisfying with respect to veracity, so we support the current theory and reject the conspiracy hypothesis. If you can satisfactorily answer some of the questions, we will surely change our perspective.

I think people get too caught up in the speculation. Like "how did they do it???" We don't really have a clue. What we know is that the story doesn't work... and we are going from there.

Since there are no answer for these important questions, the theory on the whole gets dismissed.


Questions Neoteny? All I can do is help you to toss out certain accepted "truths."

Does no one believe Cheny lied?--If we start there, then you have to wonder, what was the "target?"

Juan_Bottom wrote:I think people get too caught up in the speculation. Like "how did they do it???" We don't really have a clue. What we know is that the story doesn't work... and we are going from there.

Since there are no answer for these important questions, the theory on the whole gets dismissed.


Questions Neoteny? All I can do is help you to toss out certain accepted "truths."

Does no one believe Cheny lied?--If we start there, then you have to wonder, what was the "target?"

It's been awhile since I've done one of these, so humor me and let me catch up, and I'll put my two cents in. Cheney lied about..?

Neoteny wrote:

Juan_Bottom wrote:I think people get too caught up in the speculation. Like "how did they do it???" We don't really have a clue. What we know is that the story doesn't work... and we are going from there.

Since there are no answer for these important questions, the theory on the whole gets dismissed.


Questions Neoteny? All I can do is help you to toss out certain accepted "truths."

Does no one believe Cheny lied?--If we start there, then you have to wonder, what was the "target?"

It's been awhile since I've done one of these, so humor me and let me catch up, and I'll put my two cents in. Cheney lied about..?

...shooting a duck in the face? Ok, ok, he's probably one of my least favourite politicians ever.

MeDeFe wrote:

Neoteny wrote:

Juan_Bottom wrote:I think people get too caught up in the speculation. Like "how did they do it???" We don't really have a clue. What we know is that the story doesn't work... and we are going from there.

Since there are no answer for these important questions, the theory on the whole gets dismissed.


Questions Neoteny? All I can do is help you to toss out certain accepted "truths."

Does no one believe Cheny lied?--If we start there, then you have to wonder, what was the "target?"

It's been awhile since I've done one of these, so humor me and let me catch up, and I'll put my two cents in. Cheney lied about..?

...shooting a duck in the face? Ok, ok, he's probably one of my least favourite politicians ever.

That event was comedy gold. It was so hard to feel bad for anyone involved...