DoomYoshi wrote:Now, another thing against WW is that he didn't use an investigation last night. Some people are causing a stink about this but yesterday he clearly stated he was not going to do an action. Where were your complaints yesterday? You are just as responsible for this as WW is.
He said "I doubt I'll use my powers tonight". Honestly, I took it with a grain of salt, thinking he was just saying that to hopefully avoid a roleblock or NK. I didn't really think he'd do nothing during the night. He had concerns about receiving tampered results, but by announcing his N1 plan, would that just make N2 tampering more likely?
Are there any watchers/trackers who can confirm that strike was visited last night?
DoomYoshi wrote:As far as this case, I don't think it is as solid as it would at first appear.
I have a few reasons for this.
First: to strike's question of why different investigations. Why different JOATs? I think it makes sense that if there are indeed different JOATs, that they would be as different as possible.
As far as fakeclaims go: Neither Tifa nor Vincent fit JOAT all that well. Vincent is known as a badass, and even though he is not the greatest character, a lot of people played with him in the party just because he is badass. It doesn't make sense for him to not have a kill.
However, I know Rodion is a fan of "play the game, don't play the mod". So, the roles will be slightly unexpected - which is to be expected. Also, I can understand if the PMs were all slightly different or if the roles are slightly different.
I think clearing another person based on something like this isn't a legitimate case. Not to say that with different mods it wouldn't be, I am just saying that Rodion would have prepared for this eventuality.
Now, another thing against WW is that he didn't use an investigation last night. Some people are causing a stink about this but yesterday he clearly stated he was not going to do an action. Where were your complaints yesterday? You are just as responsible for this as WW is.
At this point, I am leaning towards agreeing with strike though - but I don't think it is rocksolid evidence. Perhaps there is something about Tifa that would cause her to focus more on the innocence of somebody and something about Vincent that would cause him to focus on whether or not somebody is mafia. Personally, I think it would have went the other way, but I did not write the roles.
Ehhh, I don't think your points are as valid as you'd like to think. Counterclaim is a counterclaim.
DoomYoshi wrote:As far as this case, I don't think it is as solid as it would at first appear.
I have a few reasons for this.
First: to strike's question of why different investigations. Why different JOATs? I think it makes sense that if there are indeed different JOATs, that they would be as different as possible.
As far as fakeclaims go: Neither Tifa nor Vincent fit JOAT all that well. Vincent is known as a badass, and even though he is not the greatest character, a lot of people played with him in the party just because he is badass. It doesn't make sense for him to not have a kill.
However, I know Rodion is a fan of "play the game, don't play the mod". So, the roles will be slightly unexpected - which is to be expected. Also, I can understand if the PMs were all slightly different or if the roles are slightly different.
I think clearing another person based on something like this isn't a legitimate case. Not to say that with different mods it wouldn't be, I am just saying that Rodion would have prepared for this eventuality.
Now, another thing against WW is that he didn't use an investigation last night. Some people are causing a stink about this but yesterday he clearly stated he was not going to do an action. Where were your complaints yesterday? You are just as responsible for this as WW is.
At this point, I am leaning towards agreeing with strike though - but I don't think it is rocksolid evidence. Perhaps there is something about Tifa that would cause her to focus more on the innocence of somebody and something about Vincent that would cause him to focus on whether or not somebody is mafia. Personally, I think it would have went the other way, but I did not write the roles.
Ehhh, I don't think your points are as valid as you'd like to think. Counterclaim is a counterclaim.
DoomYoshi wrote:As far as this case, I don't think it is as solid as it would at first appear.
I have a few reasons for this.
First: to strike's question of why different investigations. Why different JOATs? I think it makes sense that if there are indeed different JOATs, that they would be as different as possible.
As far as fakeclaims go: Neither Tifa nor Vincent fit JOAT all that well. Vincent is known as a badass, and even though he is not the greatest character, a lot of people played with him in the party just because he is badass. It doesn't make sense for him to not have a kill.
However, I know Rodion is a fan of "play the game, don't play the mod". So, the roles will be slightly unexpected - which is to be expected. Also, I can understand if the PMs were all slightly different or if the roles are slightly different.
I think clearing another person based on something like this isn't a legitimate case. Not to say that with different mods it wouldn't be, I am just saying that Rodion would have prepared for this eventuality.
Now, another thing against WW is that he didn't use an investigation last night. Some people are causing a stink about this but yesterday he clearly stated he was not going to do an action. Where were your complaints yesterday? You are just as responsible for this as WW is.
At this point, I am leaning towards agreeing with strike though - but I don't think it is rocksolid evidence. Perhaps there is something about Tifa that would cause her to focus more on the innocence of somebody and something about Vincent that would cause him to focus on whether or not somebody is mafia. Personally, I think it would have went the other way, but I did not write the roles.
Ehhh, I don't think your points are as valid as you'd like to think. Counterclaim is a counterclaim.
vote wildwilliam
-Sully
I agree with this. Vote wildwilliam
he is counter claiming my role not my character. Also I can prove my role with the flavor of my kill. something everyone is missing.
DoomYoshi wrote:As far as this case, I don't think it is as solid as it would at first appear.
I have a few reasons for this.
First: to strike's question of why different investigations. Why different JOATs? I think it makes sense that if there are indeed different JOATs, that they would be as different as possible.
As far as fakeclaims go: Neither Tifa nor Vincent fit JOAT all that well. Vincent is known as a badass, and even though he is not the greatest character, a lot of people played with him in the party just because he is badass. It doesn't make sense for him to not have a kill.
However, I know Rodion is a fan of "play the game, don't play the mod". So, the roles will be slightly unexpected - which is to be expected. Also, I can understand if the PMs were all slightly different or if the roles are slightly different.
I think clearing another person based on something like this isn't a legitimate case. Not to say that with different mods it wouldn't be, I am just saying that Rodion would have prepared for this eventuality.
Now, another thing against WW is that he didn't use an investigation last night. Some people are causing a stink about this but yesterday he clearly stated he was not going to do an action. Where were your complaints yesterday? You are just as responsible for this as WW is.
At this point, I am leaning towards agreeing with strike though - but I don't think it is rocksolid evidence. Perhaps there is something about Tifa that would cause her to focus more on the innocence of somebody and something about Vincent that would cause him to focus on whether or not somebody is mafia. Personally, I think it would have went the other way, but I did not write the roles.
Ehhh, I don't think your points are as valid as you'd like to think. Counterclaim is a counterclaim.
vote wildwilliam
-Sully
I agree with this. Vote wildwilliam
he is counter claiming my role not my character. Also I can prove my role with the flavor of my kill. something everyone is missing.
Nobody said he was counter claiming your character mate.
DoomYoshi wrote:As far as this case, I don't think it is as solid as it would at first appear.
I have a few reasons for this.
First: to strike's question of why different investigations. Why different JOATs? I think it makes sense that if there are indeed different JOATs, that they would be as different as possible.
As far as fakeclaims go: Neither Tifa nor Vincent fit JOAT all that well. Vincent is known as a badass, and even though he is not the greatest character, a lot of people played with him in the party just because he is badass. It doesn't make sense for him to not have a kill.
However, I know Rodion is a fan of "play the game, don't play the mod". So, the roles will be slightly unexpected - which is to be expected. Also, I can understand if the PMs were all slightly different or if the roles are slightly different.
I think clearing another person based on something like this isn't a legitimate case. Not to say that with different mods it wouldn't be, I am just saying that Rodion would have prepared for this eventuality.
Now, another thing against WW is that he didn't use an investigation last night. Some people are causing a stink about this but yesterday he clearly stated he was not going to do an action. Where were your complaints yesterday? You are just as responsible for this as WW is.
At this point, I am leaning towards agreeing with strike though - but I don't think it is rocksolid evidence. Perhaps there is something about Tifa that would cause her to focus more on the innocence of somebody and something about Vincent that would cause him to focus on whether or not somebody is mafia. Personally, I think it would have went the other way, but I did not write the roles.
Ehhh, I don't think your points are as valid as you'd like to think. Counterclaim is a counterclaim.
vote wildwilliam
-Sully
I agree with this. Vote wildwilliam
he is counter claiming my role not my character. Also I can prove my role with the flavor of my kill. something everyone is missing.
the flavor of your kill does only prove you can kill, nothing more.
This is funny. I have one of the top 3-4 characters in the game, which has yet to be countered, and I can prove me claim with the flavor of my kill.
It makes no sense to lynch me today, because you can lynch me tomorrow with out hesitation if I can't prove it. The game will not end tonight if I can't.
Not everyone can be role blocked. so either my kill goes through, or an investigation on me goes through. pretty simple stuff. either way I can prove my innocence.
DoomYoshi wrote:As far as this case, I don't think it is as solid as it would at first appear.
I have a few reasons for this.
First: to strike's question of why different investigations. Why different JOATs? I think it makes sense that if there are indeed different JOATs, that they would be as different as possible.
As far as fakeclaims go: Neither Tifa nor Vincent fit JOAT all that well. Vincent is known as a badass, and even though he is not the greatest character, a lot of people played with him in the party just because he is badass. It doesn't make sense for him to not have a kill.
However, I know Rodion is a fan of "play the game, don't play the mod". So, the roles will be slightly unexpected - which is to be expected. Also, I can understand if the PMs were all slightly different or if the roles are slightly different.
I think clearing another person based on something like this isn't a legitimate case. Not to say that with different mods it wouldn't be, I am just saying that Rodion would have prepared for this eventuality.
Now, another thing against WW is that he didn't use an investigation last night. Some people are causing a stink about this but yesterday he clearly stated he was not going to do an action. Where were your complaints yesterday? You are just as responsible for this as WW is.
At this point, I am leaning towards agreeing with strike though - but I don't think it is rocksolid evidence. Perhaps there is something about Tifa that would cause her to focus more on the innocence of somebody and something about Vincent that would cause him to focus on whether or not somebody is mafia. Personally, I think it would have went the other way, but I did not write the roles.
Ehhh, I don't think your points are as valid as you'd like to think. Counterclaim is a counterclaim.
vote wildwilliam
-Sully
I agree with this. Vote wildwilliam
he is counter claiming my role not my character. Also I can prove my role with the flavor of my kill. something everyone is missing.
the flavor of your kill does only prove you can kill, nothing more.
only one character has crystal gloves. and it is tifa. so unless you think she is mafia, my flavor means a lot.
I am laughing as this so called case goes on. I mean, yes there is a claim and counterclaim. I am convinced one of them is fighting for one side, one for the other. But yet there are so many 1 liners against WW. Zimmah started it off with a little one liner, and DoomYoshi comes up with half my page written up with his thoughts? I dont mean to deter this case in any way shape or form, but in all honesty I am beginning to think Zimmah is just coming and going as frequently as he can get away with. In the other game I have with him he was posted at the very least a paragraph, and when this comes up he is saying "Vote WW because of *post random 1 liner here*". Just not seeming right to me in all honesty. I would like at least an explanation. And he isnt the only one. VS (who at least provided a small bit of evidence as to why he thinks what he thinks) and then Dazza...While everyone else around them is writing page after page?
Maybe thats just how it is on CC Mafia. Sit back, let the claim and counterclaim argue it out, couple others stating their opinions (maybe their case is weak, but is skipped over because of the fuss going on between the main attraction) and have a few band wagoners posting 1 liners as to why they think whoever is mafia. But I believe the players here are very good, and dont think that would be the norm.
So personally, I would like to hear more from:
Strike Wolf and WW case
Zimmah as to why his 1 liner cuts it when DoomYoshi obviously found reasons to post so much directly after
And I would like to watch:
VS (not too much, but he does seem to come and go)
Dazza (for doing pretty much what zimma did, but at least saying it was because of DY post which I find to be somewhat logical).
DoomYoshi wrote:Although it is interesting that Barrett has a starting weapon and yet Tifa has a mid- to late-game weapon...
It is actually the second to last weapon you get, but very few people go back to get the Premium Heart Gloves or know about them, so it could technically be the last weapon.
zimmah wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:Although it is interesting that Barrett has a starting weapon and yet Tifa has a mid- to late-game weapon...
so then what's the likelyhood of tyfa beng anti-town?
Ok, so people went on a little posting spree today.
I knew that strike was going to claim JOAT and that he was about to trap WW as a scum. Then I saw the post by DoomYoshi about flavor and differences in what players care about and how their perceptions of what is important may skew how the mod (Rodion) gives them their results.
This is where it gets tricky. DY said we can't play the mod, we have to play the game. I agree with that in general, but when we come across something like this, we almost have to decide how Rodion would want to do it. I believe that he would give different results based on the actual game flavor. That's a point in WW's favor.
Moving on, if WW is telling the truth, it is believable to me that he wouldn't use an ability last night after coming out like he did. He only gets to use each ability once, so he doesn't have to use it on night 1. I would say that's neutral. Not really a point for him or against him.
Next topic, ghostly said that these two must be one side and the other one on another. That can be incorrect. Easily incorrect in a game this side. They could easily both be town and telling the truth. He could be trying to further pit them against each other if he is scum and they are both town in an attempt to get two townies lycnhed. Afterwards he went on to say that he wanted to hear more from others, almost like he was trying to draw attention away from the case as well. I'm not sure what exactly he was attempting. Small FOS on ghostly. It gets bigger, IMO if both turn out to be town.
Now, we get to the part where he got multiple PM's from Rodion... Yeah right. I'm calling him out on that one. There is no way Rodion had to send you multiple PMs. I've never gotten multiple PMs from any mod and Rodion is too thorough to miss something in his initial PM. I don't buy this at all. Lying is more than a point against. It's lynchable in almost every case, IMO. That is because it points to scumminess. unvote vote wildwilliam
only one character has crystal gloves. and it is tifa. so unless you think she is mafia, my flavor means a lot.
This.
Right, but we can't use that as evidence to support his claim, since wildwilliam hasn't used his supposed vig action. And as you said:
DoomYoshi wrote:Although it is interesting that Barrett has a starting weapon and yet Tifa has a mid- to late-game weapon...
(Not saying you're supporting him, just making a point)
edocsil wrote:
zimmah wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:Although it is interesting that Barrett has a starting weapon and yet Tifa has a mid- to late-game weapon...
so then what's the likelyhood of tyfa beng anti-town?
From what I understand if the corp is bad, she is not? this Flavor is still hard for me.
Tifa isn't apart of Shinra or the Turks - if she were to be in this game, she'd certainly be town. It's a matter of if Tifa is a fake claim or not, and, as spiesr indicated on his list, it seems probable that Tifa would be a likely candidate for a solid fake claim (as she is one of the lesser-developed main characters, it seems to me).
chapcrap wrote:
Now, we get to the part where he got multiple PM's from Rodion... Yeah right. I'm calling him out on that one. There is no way Rodion had to send you multiple PMs. I've never gotten multiple PMs from any mod and Rodion is too thorough to miss something in his initial PM. I don't buy this at all. Lying is more than a point against. It's lynchable in almost every case, IMO. That is because it points to scumminess. unvote vote wildwilliam
I have a comment here, but I will wait to see WW's response first.
Victor Sullivan wrote:(as she is one of the lesser-developed main characters, it seems to me).
-Sully
Definitely not. She is a main part of the love story with Cloud and is in the game right from the beginning until the end. Not a minor character. Vincent doesn't even join the party if you don't want him to.
However, they could still both be fakeclaims as we don't know which roles are in the game.
@ChapCrap: Yes, I had to go study and actually when I got back I had full intention to make an addition to my post through quoting (I cant quit remember the short version to saying that) saying it was possible they could both be village or maybe even SK. Dont know with Rodion.
Further on the questioning if I was trying to draw attention away from the other case, I clearly stated I had no intention of deterring the active case. I simply bring up what I see so that it is not missed, or skipped over.
ghostly447 wrote:Zimmah started it off with a little one liner, and DoomYoshi comes up with half my page written up with his thoughts? I dont mean to deter this case in any way shape or form, but in all honesty I am beginning to think Zimmah is just coming and going as frequently as he can get away with.
So a slight FOS for possibly skimming, just trying to get a case brought up on someone else (and using non-present evidence to do so).
chapcrap wrote:
Now, we get to the part where he got multiple PM's from Rodion... Yeah right. I'm calling him out on that one. There is no way Rodion had to send you multiple PMs. I've never gotten multiple PMs from any mod and Rodion is too thorough to miss something in his initial PM. I don't buy this at all. Lying is more than a point against. It's lynchable in almost every case, IMO. That is because it points to scumminess. unvote vote wildwilliam
I have a comment here, but I will wait to see WW's response first.
Why would I make this up? where is the advantage? He did not change my role, and he did not have to send me a second pm, but he did. Rodion, the mod of this game, sent a second PM telling me the flavor of my kill. This is in no way a lie.
so if you see a kill from crystal gloves, it will be me. and crystal gloves belong to Tifa, who is guaranteed town.
like I said, I was hoping Barrett had the same incidence happen to him so he could back me up.
I got fastposted there by WW. I don't know why you would make it up, but I think that Rodion, or any mod, would have all of their flavor worked out prior to sending out roles if they intended to tell you about it. It seems too far fetched to me.
Thank you very much ChapCrap. Was just wanting to get all of it clear. But please do read into it next time. FOS is not quite lifted. Could someone please tell me his background? How long chap has been playing mafia? It was a quick jump to a conclusion and if he has been here awhile I dont feel beginners mistake could explain it. Nothing personal chap, just wanting to make sure a slip up doesnt go unpressed, etc. Not trying to get claims, but there are no really strong leads at this time (IMO, if one is mafia out of SW or WW, I dont know which one yet).
But I will leave it for now. If someone else can answer my question on if he is a beginner, or what, then that would be great.
chapcrap wrote:
Now, we get to the part where he got multiple PM's from Rodion... Yeah right. I'm calling him out on that one. There is no way Rodion had to send you multiple PMs. I've never gotten multiple PMs from any mod and Rodion is too thorough to miss something in his initial PM. I don't buy this at all. Lying is more than a point against. It's lynchable in almost every case, IMO. That is because it points to scumminess. unvote vote wildwilliam
I have a comment here, but I will wait to see WW's response first.
Why would I make this up? where is the advantage? He did not change my role, and he did not have to send me a second pm, but he did. Rodion, the mod of this game, sent a second PM telling me the flavor of my kill. This is in no way a lie.
so if you see a kill from crystal gloves, it will be me. and crystal gloves belong to Tifa, who is guaranteed town.
like I said, I was hoping Barrett had the same incidence happen to him so he could back me up.
That means Barrett is forced to claim though. I am not sure that is a good idea. I think at this point you are going to have to build a case on yourself as there is no further defense you could provide (unless you admit you are lying or something radical like that).
Also, the comment that I saved is that it is possible to pm Rodion and ask details about the role, which would result in a second pm.
