Conquer Club

Extreme Ways wrote:I also hard claimed my result because if there's scum in kingm or ragian, they would have noticed it for sure. Any afk scum would learn this from their teammates, but town does not have the luxury.

@EW By this statement you do not mean that kingm or ragian are not scums.
You mean that if they are scums they already discussing about your claim of tracking halrob
Am I correct?

This one is tricky ... maybe I can work it out ...
I'm a newbie in Maffia games so I apologise.

EM provides an elegant solution.
A choice between tracking Ragian or Son!c and
a vote on Ragian or Son!c and
a vote on Ragian or Kingma

I'm thinking - why follow Son!c and not Ragian?

Extreme Ways wrote: ...
I thought Rag was town. I also thought Sonic was townish but after a recent game (offsite) where I tracked someone in my scumlist to nowhere - I decided to instead track people I'm not too sure are town ...

Changing a long proven? tactic - tracking someone in the scumlist.
Why change tactic? If one as a townie in games tracking scumlist and then change to track not sure townies might be a result of being a Maffia or Associated instead of a townie as normal role.
If one knows which one is mafia then there is no need to track the mafia.
Therefore one tracks Son!c.
Then why vote on Ragian and not on Son!c based on that Ragian is a Mafia? - Well, Son!c is point-target (possible doctor) which will likely kill Son!c during the night by the Mafia or SK. or as Maffia roleblocker then townies vote for a lynch (hopefully).

Moreover, a vote on Ragian is between Ragian and Kingm (and the strange claim that not being aware of the vote count)

Extreme Ways wrote:
...
Ragian/Kingma is where i want to be looking atm but im not aware of the vote count and posting on mobile so voting ragian.
...

Kingma is the L-n leader so more likely to be lynched than Ragian so Ragian (as Maffia) will survive.
And if Kingma is the SK ... the better.
This is a good action for a Mafia or Associated.

That's why EW still will be third option on my list.

Why change tactic? If one as a townie in games tracking scumlist and then change to track not sure townies might be a result of being a Maffia or Associated instead of a townie as normal role.

I forgot to add that the reason will be to find a SK if being a Maffia or Associated

EW is town. Im very sure on that assesment.

For all the rest i will have to take a leap of faith i guess. EW is the chess grand master..

I was breadcrumbing too D1 by posting the right songs.

One ACDC hard rock song (live at river plate argenitina 2009 is very famous by the hard core fans because the quote "i have one more in me")

And the name of the song seems very spot on after N1. When breadcrumbing i chose it because that was how i'd be playing the game. Hard and fast. Not thinking bout tomorrow

SoN!c wrote:EW is town. Im very sure on that assesment.

Does this mean you are confirming that you visited Halrob as stated by EW ?

chanakam2020 wrote:

SoN!c wrote:EW is town. Im very sure on that assesment.

Does this mean you are confirming that you visited Halrob as stated by EW ?

I confirm im 100% sure as sure i can be that EW is town. We lost JK and our cop is cornered. We need to have faith in our smartest townie and stand united. Nothing else matters

I realise EW might not look 100% town to everybody and some of you will have a hard time believing. But if you do not believe EW but you believe me then follow please.

Sonic, you should at least be considering the possibility that ew is not town.

Let's try this one out for size;

A lurking mafia ew sees a town sonic visiting halrob.
He plays the each way card of claiming he saw either you or rag visiting Halrob.
He believes you believe he can't be mafia, there isn't enough circumstantial for you to be lynched.
He opts to say he thinks you are town, he suspects rag, he doesn't care if we lynch king.

I doubt that is it but doesn't it fit almost as well as ew cannot be mafia?

Loose Canon wrote:Sonic, you should at least be considering the possibility that ew is not town.

Let's try this one out for size;

A lurking mafia ew sees a town sonic visiting halrob.
He plays the each way card of claiming he saw either you or rag visiting Halrob.
He believes you believe he can't be mafia, there isn't enough circumstantial for you to be lynched.
He opts to say he thinks you are town, he suspects rag, he doesn't care if we lynch king.

I doubt that is it but doesn't it fit almost as well as ew cannot be mafia?

Because as mafia, I would kill or roleblock Sonic before allowing him to leverage his status as townie. Any Mafia-aligned play on Sonic visiting Halrob requires casting doubt on Sonic's intentions.

But, for both Sonic and myself, we will eventually die and thats how we know for sure.

chanakam2020 wrote:

Extreme Ways wrote:I also hard claimed my result because if there's scum in kingm or ragian, they would have noticed it for sure. Any afk scum would learn this from their teammates, but town does not have the luxury.

@EW By this statement you do not mean that kingm or ragian are not scums.
You mean that if they are scums they already discussing about your claim of tracking halrob
Am I correct?

Yes. For what it's worth I think it's unlikely that both are town, but the analogy works for many players. If hjelp is scum, if you are scum, if Loose is scum: all have been active in thread and able to relay/summarise relevant information.

hjelp wrote:This one is tricky ... maybe I can work it out ...
I'm a newbie in Maffia games so I apologise.

EM provides an elegant solution.
A choice between tracking Ragian or Son!c and
a vote on Ragian or Son!c and
a vote on Ragian or Kingma

I'm thinking - why follow Son!c and not Ragian?

Extreme Ways wrote: ...
I thought Rag was town. I also thought Sonic was townish but after a recent game (offsite) where I tracked someone in my scumlist to nowhere - I decided to instead track people I'm not too sure are town ...

Changing a long proven? tactic - tracking someone in the scumlist.
Why change tactic? If one as a townie in games tracking scumlist and then change to track not sure townies might be a result of being a Maffia or Associated instead of a townie as normal role.
If one knows which one is mafia then there is no need to track the mafia.
Therefore one tracks Son!c.
Then why vote on Ragian and not on Son!c based on that Ragian is a Mafia? - Well, Son!c is point-target (possible doctor) which will likely kill Son!c during the night by the Mafia or SK. or as Maffia roleblocker then townies vote for a lynch (hopefully).

Moreover, a vote on Ragian is between Ragian and Kingm (and the strange claim that not being aware of the vote count)

Extreme Ways wrote:
...
Ragian/Kingma is where i want to be looking atm but im not aware of the vote count and posting on mobile so voting ragian.
...

Kingma is the L-n leader so more likely to be lynched than Ragian so Ragian (as Maffia) will survive.
And if Kingma is the SK ... the better.
This is a good action for a Mafia or Associated.

That's why EW still will be third option on my list.

I'm fine voting Kingm come deadline. Kingm is on L-2, I am giving him the normal courtesy of allowing a claim and/or thoughts. Whether or not my tracking targets make sense to you is a problem for you to solve, because ultimately if you choose to believe my claim you kinda have to believe I am town regardless of my choices, and if you dont believe my claim you have to believe I am scum regardless of my choices.

So it comes down to: do you think mafia has a tracker, tracking Sonic to Halrob, and outing that result in thread? If no, then the why on whom I visited X over Y and who to visit next is a problem for me and not for you.

I think it's most likely EW is a townie, unfortunately a traitor.
That's the reason to outing Son!c.

Out hiking but skimmed through.

@Loose, as per my list D1, I suspect Son!c. Now EW claims that Son!c visited halrob, which, weirdly, makes EW think Son!c is town. Son!c, in turn, buddies up to EW. EW, however, has made him selv an escape hatch by saying that he doesn't know if Son!c is town.

Knowing that Son!c visited halrob N1 confirms my D1 suspicion of Son!c. Therefore, vote Son!c. Son!c did not visit halrob in a protective capacity.

I'm also weary of chana who seems to limp in with his vote on kingm, seemingly thinking that it doesn't look suspicious now.

Town:
Hjelp
Loose
Halrob

No clue:
Devante
Devon
Max
Kingm

Suspicion:
Chana
EW

Scum:
Son!c

Ragian wrote:I'm also weary of chana who seems to limp in with his vote on kingm, seemingly thinking that it doesn't look suspicious now.

Yep it was difficult decision to vote on kingm.
My vote on kingm was decided by inconsistencies of dirtys post & not by the posts from kingm.
.

Extreme Ways wrote: Do I buy kingm's real-life explanation? Not really, it's out-of-game and while I wouldnt like it if someone lied about it, I also dont want to inherently believe it as a reasonable argument.

I know a bit about kingm's real-life and I know what it is true what he told about real life.

Vote Count:

King (3) - Sonic, Devante, Chanakam
Ragian (2) - hjelp, EW
Sonic (1) - Ragian

With 11 alive - 6 Needed for a Lynch!

halrob64 wrote:I think the idea Devon is; if you don't post in 72 hours you get taken down to the elves cellar and get tickled to death. The more you post the more you learn, this is only 2nd game so just do your best....or is this just the old sad tale ploy...as you loosen the roof tiles for when Loose Canon walks under the archway, just saying like

Got it, thanks

Loose Canon wrote:Devon, the way I see it for myself is, if I'm town it doesn't matter if I get things wrong. Just that I post what I post and vote what I vote from an honest place.
To you, don't worry about getting it wrong, ok.

You're going on my suspected town list.

Current suspected town List
Loose Cannon
Halrob

Both seem to be genuinely trying help (me at least)

Current suspected Mafia list
No Clue.

Given that I will definitely be absent for a couple of days after this, I aim to get someone on my suspect mafia list today. And then immediately vote for them, I’ll give a reason for doing so but it might be tentative or sheepish.
Hopefully D2 is still in play when I get back and the subsequent discussion will allow me to change my mind or not.

Extreme Ways wrote:

Loose Canon wrote:Sonic, you should at least be considering the possibility that ew is not town.

Let's try this one out for size;

A lurking mafia ew sees a town sonic visiting halrob.
He plays the each way card of claiming he saw either you or rag visiting Halrob.
He believes you believe he can't be mafia, there isn't enough circumstantial for you to be lynched.
He opts to say he thinks you are town, he suspects rag, he doesn't care if we lynch king.

I doubt that is it but doesn't it fit almost as well as ew cannot be mafia?

Because as mafia, I would kill or roleblock Sonic before allowing him to leverage his status as townie. Any Mafia-aligned play on Sonic visiting Halrob requires casting doubt on Sonic's intentions.

FP'd by Devon

But, for both Sonic and myself, we will eventually die and thats how we know for sure.

Yep Good Doctor Sonic with his Snakeoil Tonic may eventually die.
Actually I think he is a good town doctor although his medicine may only work due to placebo effect.
You have actually cast doubt on Sonic who as you said earlier day 2 could be a town or mafia visiting Halrob (you claimed you weren't sure which - I think you know and he's probably town)

You've then gone on to say that you will probably vote King at end of day.

I digressed a bit above;

A Town Extreme has outed his own power role and has potentially outed another players Town power.
Anyone who follows the blind ah but Extreme is a very clever player - still has to overcome that.

The alternative of mafia having a lurker, who sees Good Doctor Sonic visiting Halrob (and he knew there was a good chance of a doctor visiting Halrob) and then sees a mafia extreme making the D2 play he has, is still creditting Extreme with being a very clever player - just one who has double bluffed.

I don't know for sure you are mafia but weighing up the above I think you are.

vote Extreme

Oh and by the way I am Vanilla Town, and early Day1 evidence indicates to me that Ragian is too.
There's no such evidence Day1 that you are.

You think Son!c is town, Loose?

Loose Canon wrote:

Extreme Ways wrote:

Loose Canon wrote:Sonic, you should at least be considering the possibility that ew is not town.

Let's try this one out for size;

A lurking mafia ew sees a town sonic visiting halrob.
He plays the each way card of claiming he saw either you or rag visiting Halrob.
He believes you believe he can't be mafia, there isn't enough circumstantial for you to be lynched.
He opts to say he thinks you are town, he suspects rag, he doesn't care if we lynch king.

I doubt that is it but doesn't it fit almost as well as ew cannot be mafia?

Because as mafia, I would kill or roleblock Sonic before allowing him to leverage his status as townie. Any Mafia-aligned play on Sonic visiting Halrob requires casting doubt on Sonic's intentions.

FP'd by Devon

But, for both Sonic and myself, we will eventually die and thats how we know for sure.

Yep Good Doctor Sonic with his Snakeoil Tonic may eventually die.
Actually I think he is a good town doctor although his medicine may only work due to placebo effect.
You have actually cast doubt on Sonic who as you said earlier day 2 could be a town or mafia visiting Halrob (you claimed you weren't sure which - I think you know and he's probably town)

You've then gone on to say that you will probably vote King at end of day.

I digressed a bit above;

A Town Extreme has outed his own power role and has potentially outed another players Town power.
Anyone who follows the blind ah but Extreme is a very clever player - still has to overcome that.

The alternative of mafia having a lurker, who sees Good Doctor Sonic visiting Halrob (and he knew there was a good chance of a doctor visiting Halrob) and then sees a mafia extreme making the D2 play he has, is still creditting Extreme with being a very clever player - just one who has double bluffed.

I don't know for sure you are mafia but weighing up the above I think you are.

vote Extreme

Oh and by the way I am Vanilla Town, and early Day1 evidence indicates to me that Ragian is too.
There's no such evidence Day1 that you are.

You dont need to waste town's only killing power on lynching a claimed role. Either I die very soon, or I dont. The same holds true for Sonic.

Rag, have you looked at how Sonic interacted with me/around my info claim? When I explicitly said that one of you visited Halrob, why didnt you jump to Sonic there and then?

I'm about to get sucked into meetings for the rest of the day and I'm going be honest and say I'm not really sure who t even probe, let alone vote for. If I voted now I would probably end up following EW on the grounds he seems to know what he is doing. Probably not a good way to play this and I don't want to leave for the weekend without making a clear descision so for now.

Vote no lynch

Hopefully I get chance to change that before N2

I'm about to get sucked into meetings for the rest of the day and I'm going be honest and say I'm not really sure who t even probe, let alone vote for. If I voted now I would probably end up following EW on the grounds he seems to know what he is doing. Probably not a good way to play this and I don't want to leave for the weekend without making a clear descision so for now.

Vote no lynch

Hopefully I get chance to change that before N2

Ragian wrote:You think Son!c is town, Loose?

Actually yes I do.
I think he's doctor.
He usually buys his medicine from the reputable company Procter & Gamble.
This game he's bought from Procter & Gangster (EW)
Not his fault.

EW has made a big mistake.
It would however look like genius level innovative use of mafia lurker though if he got away with it.

Loose Canon wrote:

Ragian wrote:You think Son!c is town, Loose?

Actually yes I do.
I think he's doctor.
He usually buys his medicine from the reputable company Procter & Gamble.
This game he's bought from Procter & Gangster (EW)
Not his fault.

EW has made a big mistake.
It would however look like genius level innovative use of mafia lurker though if he got away with it.

So what is EW's endgame?

Let's assume EW is mafia Tracker → sees who the target visits or mafia Watcher → sees who visits the target.. but both scum PR have no clue on what action was performed. Okay and so EW (mafia) wants to know my role N1 so he tracks/watches me (makes much sense to do as mafia to track me and it would explain the "town heavy" investigative roles like we seem to have better) or he watched Halrob (says he tracked me but even if thats a lie and he observed Halrob where is the endgame?)? Why take the risk? Just to survive today and steer the lynch?

Lets say its to steer the lynch on a townie/SK and by doing so surviving D2.

So N2 : 7 alive on non mafia side (town and SK) and 3 mafia.

N2》 SK will target EW mafia for sure - he even posted "to the SK make sure to kill a mafia")

D3: 2 mafia alive and 6 non mafia (5 town and 1 SK most likely when mafia NK another townie)

= just stupid EW mafia play

If the SK does not kill EW its most likely 3 mafia alive and 5 non mafia (just 4 town and 1 SK IF both scum kills end up with the higher town % of players).

Hmmm

Still a very big gamble to take while you could just sit back and let town paranoia do its job