Balance Not Included Come Back Mafia End Game: Mod Down!!!

[Metsfanmax]

Samlen Theory -
(I realize what I'm about to say here is going against what I had said about Samlen being cleared if Ragian was scum.)

So let's backtrack to D2 when legion gave us a lead on Ragian. Ragian claimed jailor and said he targeted Samlen. Samlen conveniently did not take a night action because his ambiguous role is so important, that we cannot know for his safety, (If that somehow doesn't paint a red target on your forehead, I don't know what will), so we could not confirm Ragians claim as a jailor, and it hinged on the fact that, being a power role, would be a detrimental for town to not lynch him. As everyone said, a jailor claim is easy to confirm, and the only one who can confirm it, is the one guy who doesn't take any night action. See where I'm going with this yet?

Everyone wants to say "But Ragian is experienced and he would never do that!", but maybe that's exactly what team all-star scum would like everyone here to believe? Just look at the jailor claim for god sakes, it's the riskiest role claim you can make, and it would never work unless A. There is indeed a jail scum or B. He collaborated with a fellow scumster in hopes to live just long enough to kill/lynch a townie because heaven forbid, we lose our town jailor.

So there's that theory.

Fircoal made this point pages ago. It looks like you are skimming.

[dakky21]

@Dakky - I'm still more interested in why you think I targeted Samlen (as my intended, not shifted) and not Legion. I'll reiterate this for anyone that misunderstands.
I targeted Legion. I was not bussed. Legion confirmed a role block, and I'm confirming that I had intended to watch Legion for the night. Therefor, I was not shifted. So I'm entirely confused on what you were posting.

I targeted you and got the result that Nag visited Samlen... paraphrasing to avoid a quote is similar. I guessed you are a watcher or something like that and you targeted Samlen, but as you say you targeted Legion so that means we were all shifted around with actions... lol... not good.

Am I really the only one seeing this as a slip? Or are people skimming past this as just a simple goof?

I got a message (with interfering action) that I seen Nag visit Samlen while targeting you. So that must mean you are a watcher who targeted Samlen and not Legion. How else could I get your results instead of mine unless all actions were shifted? I guess it's only possible that I targeted you and someone switched your target (Legion if you're saying the truth) with Samlen. Someone else targeted me and possibly switched my action with a roleblock, resulting in your blocking and me seeing who you did not target. So that's why I said everything was weird.

[dakky21]

EBWOP: Someone obviously changed my action to role-block whoever my target targets. That's pretty much it. Someone me, me you, you him, he gets blocked. I'm not a role-blocker. But then I don't know why I saw Nag visit Samlen if I targeted you...?!

[DirtyDishSoap]

Fircoal made this point pages ago. It looks like you are skimming.

Yeah I just saw it. My bad.

Good news is, echoing the same thought at least.

@Dakky - I'm still more interested in why you think I targeted Samlen (as my intended, not shifted) and not Legion. I'll reiterate this for anyone that misunderstands.
I targeted Legion. I was not bussed. Legion confirmed a role block, and I'm confirming that I had intended to watch Legion for the night. Therefor, I was not shifted. So I'm entirely confused on what you were posting.

I targeted you and got the result that Nag visited Samlen... paraphrasing to avoid a quote is similar. I guessed you are a watcher or something like that and you targeted Samlen, but as you say you targeted Legion so that means we were all shifted around with actions... lol... not good.

Am I really the only one seeing this as a slip? Or are people skimming past this as just a simple goof?

I got a message (with interfering action) that I seen Nag visit Samlen while targeting you. So that must mean you are a watcher who targeted Samlen and not Legion. How else could I get your results instead of mine unless all actions were shifted? I guess it's only possible that I targeted you and someone switched your target (Legion if you're saying the truth) with Samlen. Someone else targeted me and possibly switched my action with a roleblock, resulting in your blocking and me seeing who you did not target. So that's why I said everything was weird.

Alright, I think I'm getting it now. However, I have to stress that I had targeted Legion, PM and everything. I had no reason to visit Samlen because, well that'd have been silly of me I think.

Mystery deepens, however. So now instead of it changing roles, it also switches targets, switches roles, and blocks other roles, in one foul swoop. Probably misinterpreted wrong, just woke up and hadn't had my morning smoke...But I can see why people are reluctant to believe something like that exists. lol

[Skoffin]

Is it not simpler to assume Dakky was targeted by a redirector? I did say that earlier, so I certainly did not skim past that point.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I'm aware that you said that. I'm just saying that I'm confused with the whole targeting Samlen deal, and the fact that he got my role, while I was given a weird role block to role block action, it's odd.

I don't know, I'm shooting in the dark at this point.

[Metsfanmax]

Is it not simpler to assume Dakky was targeted by a redirector? I did say that earlier, so I certainly did not skim past that point.

Yeah, that's what I take away from it. I'm not sure why dakky is inventing a complicated scenario to explain this when a simple one suffices.

[Skoffin]

I'm aware that you said that. I'm just saying that I'm confused with the whole targeting Samlen deal, and the fact that he got my role, while I was given a weird role block to role block action, it's odd.

I don't know, I'm shooting in the dark at this point.

Dakky did not roleblock anyone. Dakky himself chose you as his target but he never went to you. A redirector chose dakky, and made dakkys action go to Nag.
Dakky did not visir you, dakky only visited Nag and in turn saw him visit sam.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Alright, thank you for clarifying.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I guess for the sake of advancement, and nothing else is being contributed...

Vote Samlen

It's a really slim lead but as I said, for the sake of advancement.

[Skoffin]

Vote DJ

As said, he and chu are top suspects at the moment. I'd like DJ to say something about that and the overall cases atm.
I can't agree on the Samlen case.

Chu already voted in favour of a mass claim. I for one am fine with a mass claim, so if anyone else has opinions do state which way you lean.

[Samlen]

Mass claims in a game like this would do next to nothing. Roles are wonky and anyone can claim/fake claim anything. The only thing we'd get accomplished is outing our power roles.
@skoffin is dj scummy purely because of his relative inactivity? If that's the case, I'd say fircoal's actions have been scummier than dj's
@DDS Are you voting me purely to vote someone or do you really think i'm the scummiest person right now?

Given nag's action last night I'm less inclined to believe that he is mafia (still suspicious...) so I'll leave a
Vote Fircoal

[nagerous]

Mass claims in a game like this would do next to nothing. Roles are wonky and anyone can claim/fake claim anything. The only thing we'd get accomplished is outing our power roles.
@skoffin is dj scummy purely because of his relative inactivity? If that's the case, I'd say fircoal's actions have been scummier than dj's
@DDS Are you voting me purely to vote someone or do you really think i'm the scummiest person right now?

Given nag's action last night I'm less inclined to believe that he is mafia (still suspicious...) so I'll leave a
Vote Fircoal

Pretty sure it is a NV game so everyone is a power role of some sort. The cop is also unfortunately dead. Not sure we want to risk exposing a doctor though (maybe prevented the NK)

[dakky21]

So... DDS votes Samlen, Samlen votes Fircoal and Skoffin votes DJ. I guess voting anyone of these 3 already voted would be bandwagoning, but anyway, I'll go with DJ.
He has the lowest number of posts in this game (21 posts in 23 pages) and wasn't on Ragian lynch, seems like trying to stay really low. Also, from his posts I couldn't read anything about him so far.

Vote DJ

[TimWoodbury]

Vote Dakky sorry dakky but you broke the chain of 1 person votes so now you got 1 vote DJ has 2 and others have 1:)

[DirtyDishSoap]

Mass claims in a game like this would do next to nothing. Roles are wonky and anyone can claim/fake claim anything. The only thing we'd get accomplished is outing our power roles.
@skoffin is dj scummy purely because of his relative inactivity? If that's the case, I'd say fircoal's actions have been scummier than dj's
@DDS Are you voting me purely to vote someone or do you really think i'm the scummiest person right now?

Given nag's action last night I'm less inclined to believe that he is mafia (still suspicious...) so I'll leave a
Vote Fircoal

Half purely to vote, other half is the theory that both myself (skimming Fircoals post) and Fircoal.
I really don't buy into it.
Do I think you're scummiest here? No.

But I'd say DJ has been doing little to nothing next to Fircoal.

[Samlen]

True which is what makes it hard to judge DJ. Scummarining is always a problem but voting an inactive player when there are other scummy players feels like taking the easy way out so I'd rather not do it unless I didn't find other players scummy.

[nagerous]

Vote DJ

As said, he and chu are top suspects at the moment. I'd like DJ to say something about that and the overall cases atm.
I can't agree on the Samlen case.

Chu already voted in favour of a mass claim. I for one am fine with a mass claim, so if anyone else has opinions do state which way you lean.

Can you give me some more reasoning please as per the case on DJ, is it purely based on inactivity? I've had a quick read through the thread and I'm struggling to locate any involvement by him at all really that has been of any use. To be honest I was thinking initially this is a pretty weak case but having just skimmed through his post history, I'm inclined to agree that he does deserve some pressure pushed his way as the input has been pretty poor.

[Metsfanmax]

I am inclined to support the inactivity push on Dj, as I don't think any of the other cases are particularly compelling. With Fircoal, I think he's wrong, but I am not completely convinced it's because he's scummy.

[Metsfanmax]

Oops, submitted my post before finishing my thought. But, the pressure has been applied, and at this point we have to wait and see if he's actually even paying attention to the game and will respond to the accusation. If he doesn't, either we lynch or we ask for a replacement.

[Djfireside]

SOrry I have been away, work has been killing me and I was a little annoyed at the other mafia that I kinda went reckloose.

Since I have been away for a while and not contributed what I should I will claim to give you all piece of mind of who I am if that is what is requested.

I was not on the Ragian lynch correct and I was waffling to high hell before that and wanted to be the hammer on it and was fully planning to until things kinda unraveled but that is one of the reasons that I made my previous statement of I will claim because I have not been fair.

[Djfireside]

To participate like a good boy I have been trying to get my head around Dakky/DDS/SAM/Legion thing

To start this is the list that i have seen happen through the game of roles
Watcher (Owl)
Assumer/Tracker? (Thoughts on Dakky possiblity)
Flasher
Roleswapper (Inferred)
??? Busdriver (thought to happened but may be roleswapper, will explain later)
Town Crier (Claimed)
Immunity (Claimed for two nights)
GIfter (Hot Potato)
Roleblocker

DEAD(Cop,DoubleVoter)

So back to the process at hand. Dakky did something to DDS which is the part that I am confused on. How did the process start? What did Dakky Do that lead to the result.

The process went Dakky did something to DDS but got back that Nag visited Sam. Nag visiting Sam was confirmed by Nag so I will call this just Nags action.
DDS claimed to be a watcher, which fits to this, so the logic thus far is sound. But what did Dakky do that they could see this. There are only two options that I could tell and Im trying to work more but maybe someone can help me here as I Have to get back to work

1) Dakky has a role that allows them to assume the other persons effects which doesnt make sense cause they were confused as to their results
2) DDS was roleswapped(Roleblock) cause he was pointing at legion but Dakky would have seen that instead so they had to be bussed as well.

This whole thing has me at odds and I will try to explain it better in an hour but gotta run for now, wanted to at least get my inital things out.

[Fircoal]

Mass claims in a game like this would do next to nothing. Roles are wonky and anyone can claim/fake claim anything. The only thing we'd get accomplished is outing our power roles.
@skoffin is dj scummy purely because of his relative inactivity? If that's the case, I'd say fircoal's actions have been scummier than dj's
@DDS Are you voting me purely to vote someone or do you really think i'm the scummiest person right now?

Given nag's action last night I'm less inclined to believe that he is mafia (still suspicious...) so I'll leave a
Vote Fircoal

What have I done that was so scummy? Or are you voting me because I'm voting you. You know they have a word for that, it's called OMGUS.

True which is what makes it hard to judge DJ. Scummarining is always a problem but voting an inactive player when there are other scummy players feels like taking the easy way out so I'd rather not do it unless I didn't find other players scummy.

Honestly I don't think anyone is massively scummy here. But if you do can you please share those reasons because your voting post had nothing there.

I was not on the Ragian lynch correct and I was waffling to high hell before that and wanted to be the hammer on it and was fully planning to until things kinda unraveled

Wait what? Why would you want to be the hammer on it? Given the lynch rules that sounds like you wanted to have credit for the lynch without actually doing anything for the lynch? There was no reason or need to vote there unless someone knew he was scum. And if someone already knew that their vote should have been there. (Unless of course that person was scum and wanted to wait until the last minute to bus. ... I think you can see where I'm going here.~)

[Djfireside]

True but as it was noted, even by myself, I had the opportunity so I could have easily done it so you can go wherever you want to go with that but its not going anywhere

[Fircoal]

True but as it was noted, even by myself, I had the opportunity so I could have easily done it so you can go wherever you want to go with that but its not going anywhere

That doesn't make it any less of a weird comment to make.