ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

[Phatscotty]

OK, see that doesn't pass the smell test to me. That is why I had to ask.

“Health insurance companies are willing to let the bodies pile up as long as their profits are safe.”

See to me, this statement his makes perfect sense.
They have such a thin profit margin they have to do whatever they can to protect it. That includes denying treatment. I would call that an Immoral practice. Former insurance company executives have said this very thing before congress.
Am I right here, or still confused?

Besides that 2.2% is a huge profit margin when considering how many millions of Americans are covered. Though I do not know all of the insurance industries written in stone expenses, so I admittedly don't know if it is a nice profit in the long run.

Interesting to think about though.

yes that is a good point (# of Americans/mexicans) however, considering inflation, that is not so hot. In my state its all non-profit insurance companies.

[beezer]

... It proves the falsehood of the following claims:

“I’m very pleased that (Democratic leaders) will be talking, too, about the immoral profits being made by the insurance industry and how those profits have increased in the Bush years.” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.

“Keeping the status quo may be what the insurance industry wants their premiums have more than doubled in the last decade and their profits have skyrocketed.” Maryland Rep. Chris Van Hollen, member of the Democratic leadership.

“Health insurance companies are willing to let the bodies pile up as long as their profits are safe.” A MoveOn.org advertisement.

... Quite a valid argument, actually. Rather debunks the whole "evil insurance companies" rhetoric so often thrown around.

...

I love passing your sources on to my son and his teenage friends. We talk about this stuff now and again. Thanks for all the information you take the time to post on here. I could go look for it myself but I've gotten spoiled by just reading your links.

[Phatscotty]

... It proves the falsehood of the following claims:

“I’m very pleased that (Democratic leaders) will be talking, too, about the immoral profits being made by the insurance industry and how those profits have increased in the Bush years.” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.

“Keeping the status quo may be what the insurance industry wants their premiums have more than doubled in the last decade and their profits have skyrocketed.” Maryland Rep. Chris Van Hollen, member of the Democratic leadership.

“Health insurance companies are willing to let the bodies pile up as long as their profits are safe.” A MoveOn.org advertisement.

... Quite a valid argument, actually. Rather debunks the whole "evil insurance companies" rhetoric so often thrown around.

...

I love passing your sources on to my son and his teenage friends. We talk about this stuff now and again. Thanks for all the information you take the time to post on here. I could go look for it myself but I've gotten spoiled by just reading your links.

man, the internet is 50-50 from the git go. these threads here are like the wild wild west with nukes. some good some bad me bestest

[Nobunaga]

... Everybody hear the latest developments on this?

... Nancy P. is pressing a new term, as folks dislike "Public Option". She's pushing to call it the "Competetive Option". Same animal, different name.

... And now there is discussion of adding an "Opt-Out" feature to the socialized public option. States will have the option of non participation. This is complete horsesh*t smoke and mirrors from the Democrats. Even if your state opts out, anybody here think you'll get a federal tax deduction for living in a state that opted out? You can't opt out of paying taxes. Well, you can, but then you go to live in a gray-painted small room with bars on one side. And people believe this shite? Amazing. Your state may opt out but you still have to pay for it.

... Something else to keep in mind, every bill drafted thus far has provision for the Feds to mandate coverege provided by private insurance providers. Think about that. It will mandate that private insurance take all comers, even pre-existing types, or folks who just found out they need hugely expensive medicine. These folks will not be refused, as matter of federal law. The Feds will set price limits as well, hamstringing income... and private insurance will cease to exist as it goes bankrupt - against a competitor that's permitted to set all the rules. Competing with an opponent that has no worry for money (they take ours). Extinction is the only possible outcome I can see.

... But that is the goal. Eliminate private health insurnce entirely. Anybody who doesn't see it is stupid or blind, or maybe both.

...

[thegreekdog]

Nobunaga, I've actually given up trying to convince people that this is a bad thing. I'm hoping that the lot of you will be on CC in 5 to 10 years so we can see what actually happens.

[Nobunaga]

Nobunaga, I've actually given up trying to convince people that this is a bad thing. I'm hoping that the lot of you will be on CC in 5 to 10 years so we can see what actually happens.

... Yeah, I know it's pretty pointless, but I just like seing stuff I typed pop up on the message board!

...

[thegreekdog]

Nobunaga, I've actually given up trying to convince people that this is a bad thing. I'm hoping that the lot of you will be on CC in 5 to 10 years so we can see what actually happens.

... Yeah, I know it's pretty pointless, but I just like seing stuff I typed pop up on the message board!

...

Yeah, me too. I wish Turtle Soup counted towards my post count.

In any event, as I've stated on innumerable occasions, there are ways to help contain the cost of the US healthcare system and provide healthcare to those who cannot afford healthcare without having these healthcare plans being proposed. As I've stated on innumerable occasions, the US government does not do a good job running anything. As I've stated on innumerable occasions, raising taxes to pay for this plan will have undesirable short- and long-term effects. In sum, it's not a good idea.

[Nobunaga]

... Joe Lieberman: I'll block vote on Harry Reid's plan.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1009/28788.html

... Way to go, Joe! Fillibuster that thing!

... And Pelosi's pissed at a Michigan Democrat for trying to get tax-funded abortion off the bill.

http://thehill.com//blogs/blog-briefing ... py-with-me

...

[PLAYER57832]

Health insurers posted a 2.2 percent profit margin last year, placing them 35th on the Fortune 500 list of top industries.

I don't quite understand, this is your argument?

... It proves the falsehood of the following claims:

“I’m very pleased that (Democratic leaders) will be talking, too, about the immoral profits being made by the insurance industry and how those profits have increased in the Bush years.” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.

“Keeping the status quo may be what the insurance industry wants their premiums have more than doubled in the last decade and their profits have skyrocketed.” Maryland Rep. Chris Van Hollen, member of the Democratic leadership.

“Health insurance companies are willing to let the bodies pile up as long as their profits are safe.” A MoveOn.org advertisement.

... Quite a valid argument, actually. Rather debunks the whole "evil insurance companies" rhetoric so often thrown around.

...

Insurers are not particularly more evil than anyone else. However, they do take billions in profits.. while cutting benefit after benefit. I believe many people just have a fundamental problem with someone deciding "gee, treating this cancer is not worth as much as a vacation to Bermuda for my family". And that is very much the decisions that are being made. They don't like to admit it or see it that way, but the rest of us cannot help it.

On a slightly different note, here is a good and even somewhat funny history of how our insurance industry got to be what it is today.

http://thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1321

The short version is that it was accidental. The Depression and World War II are the primary reasons it expanded.

Oh, and another link that sort of supports what you are saying: it looks at why our health care costs are spiraling .. and debunks a good many misconceptions.

(in a back-handed way) http://thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1320

[Snorri1234]

... Something else to keep in mind, every bill drafted thus far has provision for the Feds to mandate coverege provided by private insurance providers. Think about that. It will mandate that private insurance take all comers, even pre-existing types, or folks who just found out they need hugely expensive medicine. These folks will not be refused, as matter of federal law. The Feds will set price limits as well, hamstringing income... and private insurance will cease to exist as it goes bankrupt - against a competitor that's permitted to set all the rules. Competing with an opponent that has no worry for money (they take ours). Extinction is the only possible outcome I can see.

Good. If the private insurers can't remain upright without screwing people over then that means they need to go. If they are unable to do what they're supposed to do then I fail to see why we should feel bad about that.

... But that is the goal. Eliminate private health insurnce entirely. Anybody who doesn't see it is stupid or blind, or maybe both.

Yes that is certainly the goal.

[PLAYER57832]

Nobunaga, I've actually given up trying to convince people that this is a bad thing. I'm hoping that the lot of you will be on CC in 5 to 10 years so we can see what actually happens.

ditto

Except what we will wind up with, as usual, won't be what I or most of the true universal care proponents want NOR will it be what you want... so , all we will really see is how little can be accomplished when intelligent people stick thier fingers in their ears and basically say "don't confuse me with facts ... I KNOW what's true because I saw it on the internet" (and I don't mean you .. I mean idiot lawmakers).

[Mr_Adams]

http://www.snopes.com/college/exam/socialism.asp

[Snorri1234]

durrrr irrelevant shit!

[cutebastard71]

Health insurers posted a 2.2 percent profit margin last year, placing them 35th on the Fortune 500 list of top industries.

I don't quite understand, this is your argument?

... It proves the falsehood of the following claims:

“I’m very pleased that (Democratic leaders) will be talking, too, about the immoral profits being made by the insurance industry and how those profits have increased in the Bush years.” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.

“Keeping the status quo may be what the insurance industry wants their premiums have more than doubled in the last decade and their profits have skyrocketed.” Maryland Rep. Chris Van Hollen, member of the Democratic leadership.

“Health insurance companies are willing to let the bodies pile up as long as their profits are safe.” A MoveOn.org advertisement.

... Quite a valid argument, actually. Rather debunks the whole "evil insurance companies" rhetoric so often thrown around.

...

Insurers are not particularly more evil than anyone else. However, they do take billions in profits.. while cutting benefit after benefit. I believe many people just have a fundamental problem with someone deciding "gee, treating this cancer is not worth as much as a vacation to Bermuda for my family". And that is very much the decisions that are being made. They don't like to admit it or see it that way, but the rest of us cannot help it.

On a slightly different note, here is a good and even somewhat funny history of how our insurance industry got to be what it is today.

http://thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1321

The short version is that it was accidental. The Depression and World War II are the primary reasons it expanded.

Oh, and another link that sort of supports what you are saying: it looks at why our health care costs are spiraling .. and debunks a good many misconceptions.

(in a back-handed way) http://thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1320

Yes but that is the choice that you make as a society. People in USA simply do not want to pay for less fortunate (some would call them lazy) people who lost jobs etc. It is a rather ruthless society which believes that every man for himself is the best option. I am somewhat making this an extreme point but that was my observation while I lived in USA. As a society you could choose that everybody should have basic health care (cancer treatment included, at least basic with chemotherapy) even those who do not have job. Of course the cost would be increased taxes but that is the choice people DO NOT WANT TO MAKE. So I do not see how it is a problem of health insurance industry. OK you could argue that they calculate risks based on the life expectancy etc etc and ensure their margin simply because they have large sample size of 300 million people and their statistical analysis works out pretty well (except for events like hurricane but then they increase premium somewhere else) but the main question is WHY HEALTH CARE SERVICE costs that much but that is another story. One for example could argue that prices of drugs are too high and that cost of R&D is overestimated in their price. I would also wonder if they take into account any grants that they may have received by Federal Govt. but that is another topic.

[PLAYER57832]

Health insurers posted a 2.2 percent profit margin last year, placing them 35th on the Fortune 500 list of top industries.

I don't quite understand, this is your argument?

... It proves the falsehood of the following claims:

“I’m very pleased that (Democratic leaders) will be talking, too, about the immoral profits being made by the insurance industry and how those profits have increased in the Bush years.” House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.

“Keeping the status quo may be what the insurance industry wants their premiums have more than doubled in the last decade and their profits have skyrocketed.” Maryland Rep. Chris Van Hollen, member of the Democratic leadership.

“Health insurance companies are willing to let the bodies pile up as long as their profits are safe.” A MoveOn.org advertisement.

... Quite a valid argument, actually. Rather debunks the whole "evil insurance companies" rhetoric so often thrown around.

...

Insurers are not particularly more evil than anyone else. However, they do take billions in profits.. while cutting benefit after benefit. I believe many people just have a fundamental problem with someone deciding "gee, treating this cancer is not worth as much as a vacation to Bermuda for my family". And that is very much the decisions that are being made. They don't like to admit it or see it that way, but the rest of us cannot help it.

On a slightly different note, here is a good and even somewhat funny history of how our insurance industry got to be what it is today.

http://thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1321

The short version is that it was accidental. The Depression and World War II are the primary reasons it expanded.

Oh, and another link that sort of supports what you are saying: it looks at why our health care costs are spiraling .. and debunks a good many misconceptions.

(in a back-handed way) http://thislife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?sched=1320

the main question is WHY HEALTH CARE SERVICE costs that much but that is another story.

The link above is just part of a series on why our health care is so expensive.

One for example could argue that prices of drugs are too high and that cost of R&D is overestimated in their price. I would also wonder if they take into account any grants that they may have received by Federal Govt. but that is another topic.

It is not just grants, the US government discovers, directly researches many, many drugs and medical devices, etc. Then, they are required by law to turn over the patents to the drug companies. The drug companies pay taxpayers nothing in return and are not even required to market the drugs. (orphan drugs, for example).

This is the real irony ... folks say our medical research would not be so great, if it were not for the profit motive, but most medical research is very heavily subsidized our outright paid for by taxpayers already. Its just that then the companies can take that and make a profit, with no obligation to return anything to we taxpayers who funded the whole thing.

[Phatscotty]

Player-

Insurers are not particularly more evil than anyone else. However, they do take billions in profits..

They also pay billions in wages, benefits, research and developement into better future technologies. WE will not let healthcare demanders ruin our system. A basic understanding of basic concepts would do healthcare demanders well. Gutting the goose that laid the golden egg comes to mind......

[PLAYER57832]

Player-

Insurers are not particularly more evil than anyone else. However, they do take billions in profits..

They also pay billions in wages, benefits, research and developement into better future technologies.

Sorry, but the government does that now. In fact, a lot of those "company" wages are supplied by grants, as is the training most researchers, etc, have recieved to reach thier positions.

Those jobs the company really does pay itself would certainly be paid by the government as well.

WE will not let healthcare demanders ruin our system.

hmm.. yes because if you go to any other country in the world you will get pay far, far more to get far inferior care ... OOPS not true! WE, not they pay far more for our healthcare and, despite what many like to believe, really and truly do not get better care.

However, a big reason is that employers are the true customer of insurers, not the people AND insurers are the customers of doctors, not the patients.

A basic understanding of basic concepts would do healthcare demanders well. Gutting the goose that laid the golden egg comes to mind......

The "goose" in this case is we taxpayers.. not the insurance companies. And we have been already thoroughly reamed.

[Phatscotty]

so, why not just take the gov't footlong then???

[Nobunaga]

... Hope and Change, Baby! A new age of transparency! Can you dig it?!

... What a pile of horsesh*t that was.

http://www.breitbart.tv/pelosi-denies-p ... ouncement/

... <EDIT> there's more of the same:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/200 ... ed-public/

http://www.breitbart.tv/more-pelosis-pu ... to-public/

....

[Phatscotty]

you know what else, ive been watching these townhall explosions, and the media CNN namely is editing the crap out of them and distorting the whole thing. I had my "1984" moment and sat and watched in disbelief.

you know what else else? I think a good amount of people who are from countries with socialized/nationalized/gov't run healthcare, when asked how their system is there, even if it did suck, would not admit it, on camera. Not to mention you have to weigh the biased of how their feeling about America effect the answers to that question when comparing to americas system.

You do realise that you are talking about almost the entire developed world outside the US yes

Exactly. Phatscotty you seem paranoid that theres some conspiracy against you. Maybe all of these hundreds of millions who live under universal healthcare actually like their system and prefer it to a profit base system.

you are beyond officially dumbasses.

[spurgistan]

you know what else, ive been watching these townhall explosions, and the media CNN namely is editing the crap out of them and distorting the whole thing. I had my "1984" moment and sat and watched in disbelief.

you know what else else? I think a good amount of people who are from countries with socialized/nationalized/gov't run healthcare, when asked how their system is there, even if it did suck, would not admit it, on camera. Not to mention you have to weigh the biased of how their feeling about America effect the answers to that question when comparing to americas system.

You do realise that you are talking about almost the entire developed world outside the US yes

Exactly. Phatscotty you seem paranoid that theres some conspiracy against you. Maybe all of these hundreds of millions who live under universal healthcare actually like their system and prefer it to a profit base system.

readjusts tinfoil hat

[Phatscotty]

you were doing fine in la-la land. just leave everything up to us

[Nobunaga]

... I am curious what supporters of universal health care feel about the massive fines and prison time that will result from not purchasing government-mandated insurance.

... I am also curious to hear their take on the penalties to be levelled against states which try to impose caps on malpractice payouts to lawyers.

... Looking forward to it.

...

[thegreekdog]

... I am curious what supporters of universal health care feel about the massive fines and prison time that will result from not purchasing government-mandated insurance.

... I am also curious to hear their take on the penalties to be levelled against states which try to impose caps on malpractice payouts to lawyers.

... Looking forward to it.

...

In addition to these, I'd like to hear what everyone thinks about the taxation of Cadillac insurance plans. Specifically, I was wondering if you all understand that the determination of whether an insurance plan is taxed is made on a yearly basis and is dependent upon the rate of inflation (2% I believe). In other words, while medical costs increase by more than 2%, thus necessitating increases to insurance coverage by more than 2%, more plans will be taxed as time goes on until, at some point, every health insurance plan that is not the public option will be subject to taxation.

[isaiah40]

Well Arizona passed a bill to go before the people for a vote next year as a constitution amendment basically telling the feds they have no authority under the 10th Amendment to force the people of the state of Arizona to purchase Obamacare! Read it here!