Page 3 of 7
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 6:19 pm
by tahitiwahini
mibi wrote:I have no problem with qwerts map, looks good to go to me. What I do have a problem is qwert acting like an insufferable man-child spreading his tear stained dirty diapers all over CC. The original eastern front thread already had a poll saying thats 60-70% of people wanted it quenched, so what is the point of this thread then? Qwert is just fishing for people ignorant of his antics to support his map, which already has support from a majority. The problem is, Qwert has turned up his whine-o-tron to max-stubborn, which as prevented the map from being in play, meanwhile, half a dozen maps have been started and quenched in this time.
I'm sorry, what you say above just doesn't make any sense to me.
His map looks good to you, then why are we not playing it then?
You don't like how qwert behaved. That's fine. We will be playing with qwert's map, not with qwert. Problem solved.
A poll has already said 60-70% of the people wanted the map quenched. Again, we're not playing it why?
I don't hear you saying anything bad about the map despite the fact that you clearly don't like qwert. Here's my deal, the CC community gets to play qwert's map and you can continue to dislike the man personally. Does that work for you?
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 6:41 pm
by Nc_Hunt3r
tahitiwahini wrote:mibi wrote:I have no problem with qwerts map, looks good to go to me. What I do have a problem is qwert acting like an insufferable man-child spreading his tear stained dirty diapers all over CC. The original eastern front thread already had a poll saying thats 60-70% of people wanted it quenched, so what is the point of this thread then? Qwert is just fishing for people ignorant of his antics to support his map, which already has support from a majority. The problem is, Qwert has turned up his whine-o-tron to max-stubborn, which as prevented the map from being in play, meanwhile, half a dozen maps have been started and quenched in this time.
I'm sorry, what you say above just doesn't make any sense to me.
His map looks good to you, then why are we not playing it then?
You don't like how qwert behaved. That's fine. We will be playing with qwert's map, not with qwert. Problem solved.
A poll has already said 60-70% of the people wanted the map quenched. Again, we're not playing it why?
I don't hear you saying anything bad about the map despite the fact that you clearly don't like qwert. Here's my deal, the CC community gets to play qwert's map and you can continue to dislike the man personally. Does that work for you?
Completely agree!!! Lets play the damn map!
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:22 pm
by mibi
tahitiwahini wrote:
His map looks good to you, then why are we not playing it then?
I don't quench maps. Andy does.
Qwerty gives the foundry, map makers, and CC in general a bad name with his childishness. You are obviously unaware of the 70 pages of bullshit that is already in the foundry about this topic. Qwert has so exhausted the patience of the foundry that he feels the need to spread his love of confrontation all over the forums. Great. I humbly dismiss myself from this thread so that the rest of you can go around and around with qwert yourselves. I
I'll check in when it gets to page 100.
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:26 pm
by dominationnation
RobinJ wrote:dominationnation wrote:qwert-put up a final poll saying
ready for quenching
make the few changes that the formens mentioned
make several changes(please post in thread)
so we can end this once and for all. Im sick of seeing all this fight about it
I agree. If you do not then I think I might do it myself in a new thread.
no. No more new threads about this. Are you trying to make more threads about this than there were of simtom, battle royal, and duggcar.
map
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 8:14 pm
by Georgerx7di
I don't really see anything special about it. It's not that different from Montreal or some of the other maps that are made up of one mainland with no islands. I think we should be cautious of clogging up the site with too many maps, making it hard to find the ones that are different.
King of the mountains for instance offers some variety. On the other hand many maps are much the same. It's nice to have 5 or 10 maps that are similar, just for the suttle differences, but any more just becomes redundant.
Senate is different mainly because it has more countries, and the bonuses are easier to defend. Most of the other maps aren't anything new. San fran is nice, but not original. It is basically the classic map reordered, with the one small quirk that Alcatraz can't attack anywhere. Something that they might have to change soon anyway.
I'm sorry, it's a nice map, but not original enough. Just because a map is finished doesn't mean that we should add it.
I suggest you make some changes, maybe connect Riga to mozdok. Or make the two islands connected to each other. Or just think up something new, to make play different. Make a country in the middle that can go anywhere, I don't know. Just try something new. Put a fat bonus in the middle consisting of only 3 countries that gives 5 armies a turn. Just change it up a little, that's all. Don't make it just be another Germany or Montreal.
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 10:33 pm
by Serbia
tahitiwahini wrote:alstergren wrote:It's a great map ready to be played as it is today.
As far as changes, well, no change is necessary for the map to be a great one. Just compare to the Siege map that recently was released - that map is horrible from a playability point of view. This Eastern front map is way better and way more playable that the Siege one.
My two cents are these: If the creator of a map believes that changes shouldn't be made, that's his call. From the foundry foremens' point of view, they have two options: either to go ahead with the map or refuse to release it.
Here - there's no excuse not to release it. The map is good. Looks playable. And is way better than many other maps out there. Foundry foremen have no business going too far, demanding changes that aren't
that necessary. When it comes to taste, well, one should give some margin of appreciation to the creator of the map instead of sitting on one's own arse pushing through one's own, subjective ideas. But that's just me.
I very rarely agree with anything alstergren has ever said, but I endorse his comments here. The criticisms of the map are petty in my opinion and I would side with the creative sensibilities of the author over the nattering negativity the map has received from the foundry. The map should be accepted as is and the nonsense should stop. What an unpleasant death by a thousand cuts it must be to submit a map to the foundry and watch the critics pounce. If the critics feel so strongly they should start work on their own maps. Precious little of enduring value was ever produced by a committee. I sympathize with the author's frustration.
I agree completely with tahiti on this. All the nonsense that the critics put the author through made me give up on the whole map foundry. I'm ready to play the map. Qwert has been difficult, but hey, it IS his map, the changes you people want really are minor, and therefore, really unnessecary. Get off your power trips, and lets play the map already.
Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 10:37 pm
by Coleman
I'll admit at one time I was a qwert supporter.
Admitting is the first step.
You'll all learn soon enough.
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 12:58 am
by alster
tahitiwahini wrote:I very rarely agree with anything alstergren has ever said, but I endorse his comments here. The criticisms of the map are petty in my opinion and I would side with the creative sensibilities of the author over the nattering negativity the map has received from the foundry. The map should be accepted as is and the nonsense should stop. What an unpleasant death by a thousand cuts it must be to submit a map to the foundry and watch the critics pounce. If the critics feel so strongly they should start work on their own maps. Precious little of enduring value was ever produced by a committee. I sympathize with the author's frustration.
Hmmm.... feels strange, maybe even a little dirty.
But yes, for once we seem to agree here. Indeed, as you point out, the criticism is petty and the suggestions - seen as a whole - amounts to nonsense.
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 2:05 am
by Qwert
Mibi i dont understand why you doing these, if you dont like me go to Flame forum.
nmhunate
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 46
Location: New Mexico
Posted: 21 May 2007 23:05 Post subject:
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For the record... what are the suggested changes that have been requested ?
Look map foundry-eastern front topic-page 1.
Developmental rule say that if you have logical explanation, then you dont need to apply these changes.
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 2:18 am
by yeti_c
Qwert - Why don't you just do what the Foundry Process is asking?
C.
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 3:02 am
by Qwert
yeti_c
Joined: 04 Jan 2007
Posts: 788
Posted: 22 May 2007 07:18 Post subject:
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Qwert - Why don't you just do what the Foundry Process is asking?
C.
Can you explane to me what foundry process mean, who present foundry process?
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 3:24 am
by yeti_c
qwert wrote: Can you explane to me what foundry process mean, who present foundry process?
How to Make a Map
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 6:47 am
by Qwert
Once the Foundry agrees that the respective map is finished, the Foundry Foreman will make a quick check to make sure that all major suggestions have been either implemented or refuted with logical reasoning. This is the 'Final Forge'. If said map has not addressed certain aspects, it must engage in discussion again before it will be deemed playable and ready for live play. Once all suggestions have been addressed the Foundry Foreman will put his ‘‘Brand of Approval’’ on the map. Maps that have not received the Foundry Brand will not be accepted if submitted. Also remember to sign your work, preferably small and simplistic. Be modest
Developmental maps will be discussed in length in the Foundry, in their respective topics. Cartographers must be open to any advice and suggestions. Be sure that if you do not implement said advice you must have logical reason for doing so.
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 7:07 am
by yeti_c
qwert wrote:Once the Foundry agrees that the respective map is finished, the Foundry Foreman will make a quick check to make sure that all major suggestions have been either implemented or refuted with logical reasoning. This is the 'Final Forge'. If said map has not addressed certain aspects, it must engage in discussion again before it will be deemed playable and ready for live play. Once all suggestions have been addressed the Foundry Foreman will put his ‘‘Brand of Approval’’ on the map. Maps that have not received the Foundry Brand will not be accepted if submitted. Also remember to sign your work, preferably small and simplistic. Be modest
Developmental maps will be discussed in length in the Foundry, in their respective topics. Cartographers must be open to any advice and suggestions. Be sure that if you do not implement said advice you must have logical reason for doing so.
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 7:52 am
by Skittles!
mibi wrote:I think you should make a thread in a few more forums to see if you can avoid making any changes to the map. It might work.
I'll even make the topics for you,
Suggestions and Bug report forum:
There is BUG in foundry, please fix so EASTERN FRONT can quench
Cheating and Abuse forum:
Andy and KEYOGU are multi, look EASTERN FRONT map, I lose
Call out forum:
Looking for noobs to vote my poll, see EASTERN FRONT thread.
Flame wars:
CC sucks, Landgrab quench my map, haha, suckers
seriously, give it a shot...
Rofl, so good. So true too.
I was once a supporter to keep the thread alive, and make it last forever. but then Andy came in and said no spamming.
I must agree with Mibi about Qwert's behaviour. To all of you who had not even read the first 20 pages, go read the whole thread. Qwert get's defensive and emotional when he can't get his own way.
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 9:05 am
by Qwert
AndyDufresne
Zookeeper & Foundry Foreman
Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 4045
Location: A Banana Palm in Zihuatanejo
Posted: 03 Feb 2007 02:18 Post subject:
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Final Forge
---WWII Eastern Front has reached the ‘Final Forge’ Stage. I've revived this thread from the pits of the Foundry furnace and have examined the contents. Nearly every major concern has been addressed. If there are any other current concerns, please make your voice heard. There will be at least two days (but may extend pass that) for you to post any objections; if no one has posted any protest after two days the map will be deemed finished with the 'Foundry Brand' of approval and will be submitted for live play. If after two days there is still discussion going on it may continue until said discussion has reached the conclusion that the map has reached its final and polished version.
Post questions and concerns if any.
anybody know what you must finish to get final forge status.?
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 9:48 am
by tahitiwahini
Skittles! wrote:I must agree with Mibi about Qwert's behaviour. To all of you who had not even read the first 20 pages, go read the whole thread. Qwert get's defensive and emotional when he can't get his own way.
Kind of like Howard Roark in
The Fountainhead or John Gault in
Atlas Shrugged you mean?
As I understand the process the author must address major concerns not roll over and play dead. As the author has the most invested in the map I'll overlook a certain amount of defensiveness and emotion as the price I'm willing to pay for the author sharing his creative work with the rest of us. I guess I just have more respect for the creative process than the critical process.
Reminds me of a saying:
Those who can't do, teach; those who can't teach, teach gym; those who can't teach gym, criticize color choices and borders in CC's map foundry.
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 9:55 am
by yeti_c
tahitiwahini wrote:As the author has the most invested in the map
I think you'll find technically LackAttack has the most invested in the map actually...
C.
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 10:44 am
by Qwert
i look my topic and after map been forged, only two things left to finish, borders and Army circles, borders been finish after long consultation(i present 5 diferent smooth and blur example with 15%,20%25%30%,and with old version of borders like Guiscard tell me and people vote for 20%),also i finish army shadows to be in tetittory and dont taching borders. If i have logical explanation, i also want to hear logical explanation, why i must change something,but if somebody dont want to apply my logical explanation have can i apply hes logical explanation.
If Keyogi want we can together see 1 bu 1 hes sugestion and look its these been finish before and maybe he forget that something from hes sugestion finish before and been apply from comunity. I dont think nothing bad with these sugestion.
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 11:01 am
by yeti_c
qwert wrote:If Keyogi want we can together see 1 bu 1 hes sugestion and look its these been finish before and maybe he forget that something from hes sugestion finish before and been apply from comunity. I dont think nothing bad with these sugestion.
That sounds like a plan...
Why don't you gather together all of the suggestions - or get Keyogi to do it...
Then answer or apply each one - one by one...
That foundry thread is so full of crap that it's impossible to finally work what was left to do...
C.
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 12:42 pm
by tahitiwahini
yeti_c wrote:tahitiwahini wrote:As the author has the most invested in the map
I think you'll find technically LackAttack has the most invested in the map actually...
C.
I stand by the full quote.
tahitiwahini wrote:As the author has the most invested in the map I'll overlook a certain amount of defensiveness and emotion as the price I'm willing to pay for the author sharing his creative work with the rest of us.
While LackAttack clearly has the most invested in the site it is quite clear to me that the map author has the most invested in the map. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe LackAttack is a paying customer of the map author. As such it seems to me his or his delegate's role in this transaction is to offer suggestions to the map author which deserve consideration by the author and logical explanations from the author. As the owner of the site, LackAttack or his agent, has the final say whether the map is accepted into the site or not.
My role as a CC member is to express my opinion of how the process has worked in this case and I've done so.
If I had any desire to submit my own map to this site what I've seen of qwert's experience here would cause me to seriously reconsider.
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 12:53 pm
by jiminski
yeti_c wrote:qwert wrote:If Keyogi want we can together see 1 bu 1 hes sugestion and look its these been finish before and maybe he forget that something from hes sugestion finish before and been apply from comunity. I dont think nothing bad with these sugestion.
That sounds like a plan...
Why don't you gather together all of the suggestions - or get Keyogi to do it...
Then answer or apply each one - one by one...
C.
i think this a better place to end personally.
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 4:15 pm
by Qwert
I know what left, and we can discusse if he want to discusse with me.
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 4:30 pm
by pepperonibread
I didn't read the whole Eastern Front topic or anything (I'm too lazy: I didn't even read this whole topic) but I'd say just make the borders a little smoother and it's ready to play.
Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 4:40 pm
by Aegnor
Looks good enough to give it a try!