Conquer Club

Firstly my view which has been stated by a few already. Yes global warming is happening, it is part of the natural cycle of our planet, it warms, it cools, we have ice ages etc however man's activities are vastly accelerating this process with potentially catastrophic side effects.

For those looking for proof or scientific research I can recomend the Tyndall centre in the UK which specialise in the study of climate change (note that is not global warming, but climate change). Here is their website with masses of interesting scientific research presented - http://www.tyndall.ac.uk/index.shtml - You may struggle to find an article entitled "Conclusive proof of global warming" as for the vast majority of the academic world we are long past doubting whether the Earth's climate is warming and now much more concerned with how we can mitigate the potential consequences.

reverend_kyle wrote:

Cheesemore wrote:Here's what I feel from the Info I heard
Greenhouse gases (which seem to be causing global warming) are made up of mostly CO2 and H2O
Now correct me if I'm wrong but, DOESN'T EVERY ANIMAL BREATH OUT CO2?
and isn't our earth 70% H2O
So I don't think humans are the sole reason why global warming is happening
Plus there was an article that stated every time a volcano errupts, the amount of pollution thrown into our atmosphere is equilivant to 1,000 years of car pollution
I have also heard that the ozone layer is healing itself

wow, you are WAY wrong.


But I'll just show the first part... H20 Isnt a gas how could it be a greenhouse gas.

Actually no reverend_kyle, in all respects here you are wrong. Water can exist as a gas (water vapour), and does so in large quantities in our atmosphere. You know what clouds are and how they are formed right? And it is well recognised as the most significant contributor to the greenhouse effect, both as vapour in the atmosphere and clouds. This was in fact first proven by Ramanathan and Coakley as far back as 1978.

khazalid wrote:you dumb fucking idiots. did your collective mothers use you as footballs in your youth? honestly you people are just ridiculously stupid, its way too much sometimes

Who are you talking to? Quote button...use it. When you spew blanket statements like this YOU are the one who looks like mommy's little football.

My opinion: Global Warming is real and humans are assisting it to accelerate...but not neccesarily the root cause.

areon wrote:

wcaclimbing wrote:I was just using my friend as an example. when i said i thought global warming was a natural earth thing, he freaked out, and i was wondering if thats just the way liberals do things (really strong opinions on stuff. The I'm right your wrong attitude). I dont really know what liberals represent .

It doesn't matter what groups people belong to, some will have that attitude. It becomes a problem when you try to say a whole group acts like that.

Ok, so not all liberals are like that?

you left both out of the poll wca, "global warming" would happen without us, we just speed it along

Thanks for defending me Bertros Bertros, I'm suprised how many people forgot that H2O could be vapor

Cheesemore wrote:Thanks for defending me Bertros Bertros, I'm suprised how many people forgot that H2O could be vapor

What, one person?

you can find facts about it on the british antarctic surrey web page all info thats taken in antartica a copy off all info has to go though them including the usa
the russian base station at vadistok have drilled ice cores dating back 2 ice ages
they contain a history of the earth weather pattens the earth have been long over due for an ice age with the warming will come a drop in the earth tempture sooner or later when that happens ( if the drop is fast only 2 degrees ) we will be in an ice age it can happen with in one season
oh by the way esso has had 2 names one for the chemical and the other for petrolchem
the earth has at lest 2 orbits that man knows of like the one we are on now the earth is closes to the sun on january 6th

i suggest everyone watch An Inconvenient Truth, the doc by Al Gore... it's not just manbearpig anymore

ill sum up the data presented...

in the last 600000 years there have been a few ice ages....

as C02 goes up so does the temperature....then it peaks, and the temperature drops relatively quickly...possibly due to the stop of the heat convection in the ocean that takes heat from the equator and brings it to the northern seas

as of now...there is more C02 in the atmosphere than in any point in the last 600000 years...and im estimating it was 40% more....it could be as much as 100% more, i forget

so for 600000 years the C02 never went above a certain point...now it is off the chart....autos, powerplants, and a couple of billion humans breathe out C02

also plants absorb C02 and breathe out oxygen...humans clearly have eliminated a sizable amount of forestation and vegetation, which would reduce C02 conversion...Every winter the C02 level spikes when all the leaves in the northern areas fall off for the winter...

now, while ice ages happen naturally, and assuming the data is correct and not falsified...since the C02 level is higher than ever...then it is safe to assume that since there is an ice age everytime it gets to that level...that one will occur again...but...no way to know when...because the level is so far past that which would happen naturally...there is no way to predict it...

maybe we will get lucky, and the northern countries will stay so warm that the leaves dont fall and the C02 level is actually decreased enough to equalize the weather....not very likely...but if you need something to hope for, go for it

but the concensus is the freshwater from the glaciers could stop the convection currents which brings heat to the northern hemishere...thereby allowing them to freeze more and more every year...my brothers town house in florida may become more valuable...i have a plow, but it really can only handle 2 or 3 feet of snow....200 ft of ice could pose a problem

ironically, if there is an ice age... the only way to reverse it is wait, or pump more C02 into the atmosphere thereby heating the planet and hasten the heating process...

in any case...if the data is correct...seeing it right there is impossible to question it did not happen because of human beings...the results have yet to be seen, and perhaps the increased C02 only pushed an inevitable ice age forward a year or two...but logic would suggest that it is so far off the scale that it really has had a much larger and quicker impact... to suggest it wasnt humans that spiked the C02 emissions after 600000 years is fairly naive once you look at the data

wcaclimbing wrote:I agreee with you on the liberal thing.

but I would like to see a link to a site that has PROOF that humans are speeding up global warming.

kclborat wrote:Read State of Fear by Michael Crichton. Amazing book. Will have you rethink everything you "know" about global warming. I agree with Stopper, no one on this thread has any true, scientific data that is backed up by even more true, scientific data, including me. I think all this thread is good for is to see what people want to believe.

that book is why i started this thread!!

Mikes Great...ive read nearly every book he's written...they are fiction

In Sphere a giant sphere from another planet controls minds

In Jurasic Park Dinosaurs were theorized to evolve into birds

In another, he used Quantum physics to send his characters back in time

In another, he countered Dinosaurs evolving into birds

In ER his tv show, a doctor loses his hand to a helicopter, and a year later has one fall on his head

In the latest, a talking parrat gets seperated from its owner and meets up with a talking half chimp half human that goes to school

His books are awesome, you will learn something in everyone, but i wouldnt reccomend building a time machine, or playing with genetics based on his books...he does obviously do incredible research and backs up claims with scientific data, but every book is fiction and meant to tell a story. Once the idea for the book is there...the data will more or less support the story...Im a little hypocritical here, because its one i havent gotten too...but i dont believe it perse any more than i do that frodo destroyed the ring of power, which is why humans took over the planet

AAFitz wrote:Mikes Great...ive read nearly every book he's written...they are fiction

In Sphere a giant sphere from another planet controls minds

In Jurasic Park Dinosaurs were theorized to evolve into birds

In another, he used Quantum physics to send his characters back in time

In another, he countered Dinosaurs evolving into birds

In ER his tv show, a doctor loses his hand to a helicopter, and a year later has one fall on his head

In the latest, a talking parrat gets seperated from its owner and meets up with a talking half chimp half human that goes to school

I've read all but the latest too. Well researched in many cases but definitely fiction. Although with the global warming one he has tried to prove that its fact. He's become something of a poster-child for the anti-environmentalists. That said, still fiction. I'm sure many of you will have seen the recent UN report that stated that man is definitely a major cause of climate change... Thats the UN, an international intergovernmental report, not a vested-interest but a scientific and politically neutral body.

AAFitz when you said 100% co2 in the air that was very close acorrding to the tects in antarctica canadain and russian mainly the co2 is more than double in the known earth history
did you know that the gulf stream is slowing down and getting wider and that sun spots have a big part in the earth weather
back in 1876 the world had very cold winters the records show that there was snow on the ground nov/dec to jan/feb here in the uk this lasted a few years this was due to one volcano blowing its top ( kakatoa ) this volcano dos this every 80 to 120 years its due to do it again very soon and is being monitored very moment
this time when it gos up we could be in very big trouble due to how high the earth temps are another thing that changes r weather is the mount of sun spots more there is the warmer it is at the moment we are in a very low ebb off sun spots
one off the idea that is going on at the moment is this volcano blows it top in the next few mths by the time summer over we will see a change in the sky more so in the eveing due the ash make up this volcano then we noticed a very cold winter one that you never seen before snow be on the ground a long time a slow start for spring and a poor summer will follow then the next winter will be even colder and the snow on the ground be much earlyer ah you say the gulf steam will keep us warm but because the gulf stream has slowed down and got wider this time with all that ash in the jet stream and higher it will cold down the carabean sea and probley stop the warm waters heading north now we getting big drops in the earth temp and being in a low ebb of sun spots we will not get any help there with the change off the wieght to the poles getting heaver the earth orbit will change it prob be more cicular and the earth having no seasons all this could happen in 13 weeks to 2 years thats how quick an ice age can hit us it only takes a fast drop in the earth temp 2 degrees is enough to do this it takes longer to warm up the earth than to cool down and the next ice age is long over due prob due to man why we not had one yet

well yeah climate changes are all natural, but the speed it shows now is very unatural.

if you want prove that man do their part to do it you do not need any scientist , just a simple physics book.

the fact that earth does not get fucking cold everytime when one side turns away from sun is due to the greenhouse effect (and the fact that water is a worse heat conductor than land is but that is only a small part).
the greenhouse effect is due to greenhouse gases in earths atmosphere. like CO^2 and methane ( i wonder why no one mentioned the methane yet in this topic). so poluting more greenhouse gases does strenghen the greenhouse effect which heats earth up more.

but i personally don't worry that much about CO2 than i worry about methane. 1 methane molecule strenghens the greenhouse effect about 21times more than 1 CO2 molecule does. the fact that CO2 is the main greenhouse gas is due to the fact that there is much more of it in the atmosphere than methane.

human caused polution of CO2 is due to burning fossil fuels (which we run out anyway in some decades ) ). the causing of metahne polution is due to shitting, well every human and every animal has to shit there is no way to avoid that. also plants produce methane by growing but they make it kind of good by reducing CO2 therefore. the fact that stock breeding has increased extro ordinary in the past 2 decades ( just ask you grandparents if it was usual to eat meat everytime you want it) is due to most of todays methane emmission.

another thing very important to keep in mind. one molecule of CO2 or methane need more than 1 decade to reach a level in the atmosphere where it will help the greenhouse effect , therfore you will see the effect on todays polution in more than 1 decade in the future.

and now here comes the big deal: there is huge amount of methane is hold in ice in the permafrost of siberia, so when this ice starts melting it will speed up the increase of greenhouse effect even more and there is hardly anything we can do against it.

well i don't think there is a way to stop global warming but making its process slower is needed to give nature a bit more time to get along with it , and giving humans a bit more time to invent technologys that help to get along with it.
of course this is only relevant to people that care about the future of the next generations, those people only interested in accumulating as much money as possible in their own life just ignore my post and any pro-enviroement topic.

you may noticed i did not much mentioned global warming quite much in my post , i mostly wrote about strenghening the greenhouse effect, because it is not sure how much global warming is due to the increase of the greenhouse effect. ( you need scientist for this)

well i agree with all the posts that climate is on earth is a way to much complex thing so that we are not able to make a correct analysing of it, but come on !!! in the 70th we had computers that where hardly powerfull enough to mulitply , and now we are able to built supercomputers and to addit their performance by linking them.

now i want to refer to the post about H20 beeing a greenhouse gas and 70% of earth surface is covered by H20:
well it is no problem because it is in liquid form, also H20 does not cause the greenhouse effect in those high levels of atmosphere it causes his part of the greenhouse by building clouds wich also reflect the heat back to earh, H20 is not able to accumulate on and on in the atmosphere because it combines with other H20 molecules and then gets liquid again and then it get to heavy to stay up there and falls down in liquid form (we call that rain). also the amount of H20 emmisioned into atmosphere is mostly due to the heat of earth therfore it is an effect and not a couse of the heating up. so don't be afraid of water

well at last i want to write to all those people who would like to their part to slow down the increase of the greenhouse effect
( again i am not talking about global warming , but i personally believe that this is the main reason why global warming is proceeding that fast, but i have not prove for that but i have prove for everything else i posted here)
well it is not just to use your car less often, it is also about eating less meat , and first of all forcing your goverment to take action.

to prove what i said about greenhouse effect and gases you only need to read a physics book (secondary school,) even if its is older than 30 years.

to prove what i said about the methanen stored in sibirias permafrost you need a geografics book (also secondary school) , but noone knows for sure what amount is stored there actually.

to prove that shitting produces methanen, you only need to take a deep breath after you were sitting on the toilett. to prove that stock breeding causes methanen, you only need to watch a cow for a while and you will notice they do shitting too !!!!

i don't need any scientist to prove my post at all, but it is mostly about the greenhouse effect and i believe it causes a very big part of global warming but i am not able to prove that .

refering to wl_southerner post about golf stream:

yeah i am very scared about an ice age coused by the golf stream problem, the weird thing about it is that the global warming finaly could cause us an ice age ( mostly in europe) .
but the cause will stil be the heat up of earth.

// i am not able to prove this post with easy methods everybody can reproduce.

Cheesemore wrote:Here's what I feel from the Info I heard
Greenhouse gases (which seem to be causing global warming) are made up of mostly CO2 and H2O
Now correct me if I'm wrong but, DOESN'T EVERY ANIMAL BREATH OUT CO2?
and isn't our earth 70% H2O
So I don't think humans are the sole reason why global warming is happening
Plus there was an article that stated every time a volcano errupts, the amount of pollution thrown into our atmosphere is equilivant to 1,000 years of car pollution
I have also heard that the ozone layer is healing itself

Firstly H20 is water and I’m pretty sure that’s not a greenhouse gas. CO2 is produced by animals but plants also take it in through photosynthesis but a combination of fewer trees and more CO2 being produced by fossil fuel burning means that this is being knocked out of balance

As for the volcanoes, most of the material is ash so it usually comes back down but when a large volcano erupts the effects can be large. In the 17th century ash from an Icelandic eruption caused the Themes to freeze over.

The ozone layer does heal itself, but at an extremely slow rate, and certainly not as fast as it is being destroyed

WL_southerner wrote:AAFitz when you said 100% co2 in the air that was very close acorrding to the tects in antarctica canadain and russian mainly the co2 is more than double in the known earth history
did you know that the gulf stream is slowing down and getting wider and that sun spots have a big part in the earth weather
back in 1876 the world had very cold winters the records show that there was snow on the ground nov/dec to jan/feb here in the uk this lasted a few years this was due to one volcano blowing its top ( kakatoa ) this volcano dos this every 80 to 120 years its due to do it again very soon and is being monitored very moment
this time when it gos up we could be in very big trouble due to how high the earth temps are another thing that changes r weather is the mount of sun spots more there is the warmer it is at the moment we are in a very low ebb off sun spots
one off the idea that is going on at the moment is this volcano blows it top in the next few mths by the time summer over we will see a change in the sky more so in the eveing due the ash make up this volcano then we noticed a very cold winter one that you never seen before snow be on the ground a long time a slow start for spring and a poor summer will follow then the next winter will be even colder and the snow on the ground be much earlyer ah you say the gulf steam will keep us warm but because the gulf stream has slowed down and got wider this time with all that ash in the jet stream and higher it will cold down the carabean sea and probley stop the warm waters heading north now we getting big drops in the earth temp and being in a low ebb of sun spots we will not get any help there with the change off the wieght to the poles getting heaver the earth orbit will change it prob be more cicular and the earth having no seasons all this could happen in 13 weeks to 2 years thats how quick an ice age can hit us it only takes a fast drop in the earth temp 2 degrees is enough to do this it takes longer to warm up the earth than to cool down and the next ice age is long over due prob due to man why we not had one yet

Longest sentence ever?

Now teh bush administration is talking about releasing millions of aluminium balloons into teh atmosphere, or building a giant space mirror, or altering jet fuel, all to reflect the sun's rays back into space. Note that these krazee ideas are instead of curbing emissions (and thus hurting industry) like every other country is doing.

They have known all along that global warming is real. This isn't a sudden change of heart, it is desperation. Here is the proof that their 'global warming is bunk' propaganda was just that. Those of you who were hoodwinked by these fuckers, i hope you realise what a ride you have been taken for.

i remember the winter of 1963 i was sun bathing on the front door step on boxing day it was real hot morning by 8pm we had 6 inches of snow we snow in the gound right though to march it was easter before we could go back to school that was caused by a volcano some where in central america the year before
what makes kakatoia so deadly is it location in between the tropics and when that volcano blows your not talking just a little bit near the top it blows at the base the whole volcano gos up its ash is a very fine white pomis stone ash it all so puts up a lot of sea water way up in the upper atomspere in the jet stream and above its very deadly volcano

heavycola wrote:Now teh bush administration is talking about releasing millions of aluminium balloons into teh atmosphere, or building a giant space mirror, or altering jet fuel, all to reflect the sun's rays back into space. Note that these krazee ideas are instead of curbing emissions (and thus hurting industry) like every other country is doing.

They have known all along that global warming is real. This isn't a sudden change of heart, it is desperation. Here is the proof that their 'global warming is bunk' propaganda was just that. Those of you who were hoodwinked by these fuckers, i hope you realise what a ride you have been taken for.

The thing that gets me about this idea is that it won't harm American big business in any way (as the Kyoto protocols would have)... You don't have to cut emissions, just create a new company to sell shiny space balloons... The logic of that disturbs me.

heavycola wrote:Now teh bush administration is talking about releasing millions of aluminium balloons into teh atmosphere, or building a giant space mirror, or altering jet fuel, all to reflect the sun's rays back into space. Note that these krazee ideas are instead of curbing emissions (and thus hurting industry) like every other country is doing.

Didn't they try that in an episode of Futurama?

Yes they built a mirror.

More importantly, did it work?

vtmarik wrote:

heavycola wrote:Now teh bush administration is talking about releasing millions of aluminium balloons into teh atmosphere, or building a giant space mirror, or altering jet fuel, all to reflect the sun's rays back into space. Note that these krazee ideas are instead of curbing emissions (and thus hurting industry) like every other country is doing.

Didn't they try that in an episode of Futurama?

And how many more of the bush administration's policies have been stolen from cartoons?

Stopper wrote:More importantly, did it work?

Not really, a micrometeorite hit it and turned the mirror into a giant death ray that vaporized several scientists and cut an entire arena in half.

i think it is natural but it takes a very long time and we humans are aiding it