Re: CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:02 pm
Snowgun wrote:Damn you natty.
You happy?
Extatic.
Extatic.
Conquer Club
Conquer Club, a free online multiplayer variation of a popular world domination board game.
http://www.tools.conquerclub.com/forum/
CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
http://www.tools.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108610
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Extatic.
Re: CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:41 pm
Maybe i fail to see what your complaining about but truly random (not that CC is perfectly random anyway because it is impossible) dice will have strings of really bad dice and really good dice over so many rolls.
So either you think the dice are biased, in which case the ten thousand dice rolls should show that they are fair
Or your complaining that the dice aren't random because you get screwed when attacking something when you should win (which would really mean you want less random dice). look up something called the gamblers fallacy, In a nut shell it says that even if you roll 6 1's in a row the odds of you rolling another 1 is still 1/6.
So either you think the dice are biased, in which case the ten thousand dice rolls should show that they are fair
Or your complaining that the dice aren't random because you get screwed when attacking something when you should win (which would really mean you want less random dice). look up something called the gamblers fallacy, In a nut shell it says that even if you roll 6 1's in a row the odds of you rolling another 1 is still 1/6.
Re: CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:43 am
Arbotross wrote:Maybe i fail to see what your complaining about....
Yep, FAIL.
Re: CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
Posted: Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:42 pm
Snowgun wrote:Arbotross wrote:Maybe i fail to see what your complaining about....
I realize i'm wrong and so i'm going to resort to pointless two word posts.
Re: CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:30 pm
Snowgun wrote:Arbotross wrote:I fail to understand advanced concepts of variability, though I do have a good understanding of basic statistics.
You missed what I'm talking about, and I'm too tired to have to teach/explain to you. 2 words is nice and succinct.
Re: CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
Posted: Thu Feb 11, 2010 2:20 pm
CC is Risking Loosing it's Paying Customers!!!
Uh.....No. Although I hate the dice as much as the next guy, traffic is up 23% over the last 90 days. If you truly want a bench mark to see how many human bidets, and grape peelers Lack owns just click on here:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/conquerclub.com
Slide the option to show the chart for the last 6 months.
Johnny Rockets
Uh.....No. Although I hate the dice as much as the next guy, traffic is up 23% over the last 90 days. If you truly want a bench mark to see how many human bidets, and grape peelers Lack owns just click on here:
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/conquerclub.com
Slide the option to show the chart for the last 6 months.
Johnny Rockets
Re: CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:31 am
For those of us who clearly aren't up to your level of intelligence please explain if i'm stil missing your complaint(?).
You complain that the dice screw you over in a game, fine complain all you want but it's just as likely to happen to the person you are playing against as it is to happen to you. In fact you mentioned that i the dice were "better" then your "uberleet" strategy would allow you to pwn people. Well if your strategy was so good then even if you get bad rolls o some games then you would still capitalize and win the games where your opponent got bad rolls and may even be able to win some of the games where your dice went south.
As you admit the dice are fair (at least statistically) in the long run but if you want them to be fair in the shorter term then the dice will have to be less random thus taking the Risk (pun intended) out of the game.
You complain that the dice screw you over in a game, fine complain all you want but it's just as likely to happen to the person you are playing against as it is to happen to you. In fact you mentioned that i the dice were "better" then your "uberleet" strategy would allow you to pwn people. Well if your strategy was so good then even if you get bad rolls o some games then you would still capitalize and win the games where your opponent got bad rolls and may even be able to win some of the games where your dice went south.
As you admit the dice are fair (at least statistically) in the long run but if you want them to be fair in the shorter term then the dice will have to be less random thus taking the Risk (pun intended) out of the game.
Re: CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2010 1:05 pm
I agree.... the dice are unfair.
I think I am going to quit playing games. I'll just come and hang out in the forums instead.
I think I am going to quit playing games. I'll just come and hang out in the forums instead.
Re: CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 10:58 pm
THE DICE ON THIS SITE ARE JUST NOT RIGHT - STREAKS LIKE THIS SHOULD NOT OCCUR IN A MAJORITY OF GAMES LIKE THEY DO ...... ALL MY GAMES TONIGHT ARE AN EXAMPLE AGAIN!!!!!! SAME OLD SAME OLD.
ALSO, I HAVE TRIED THE DICE TRACKER AND HAVE COME TO FIND THAT THEY DO NOT EVEN OUT ... ESPECIALLY AT THE START OF GAMES ... ONE PLAYER HAS A DISTINCT DICE ADVANTAGE IN 90% OF THE GAMES.
JUST TIRED OF THIS CRAP .... HAVING A HARD TIME ENJOYING GAMES - EVEN WHEN I WIN BECAUSE EVEN WHEN I WIN ITS LOPSIDED AND I DON'T HAVE TO WORK FOR IT.
ALSO, I HAVE TRIED THE DICE TRACKER AND HAVE COME TO FIND THAT THEY DO NOT EVEN OUT ... ESPECIALLY AT THE START OF GAMES ... ONE PLAYER HAS A DISTINCT DICE ADVANTAGE IN 90% OF THE GAMES.
JUST TIRED OF THIS CRAP .... HAVING A HARD TIME ENJOYING GAMES - EVEN WHEN I WIN BECAUSE EVEN WHEN I WIN ITS LOPSIDED AND I DON'T HAVE TO WORK FOR IT.
Re: CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:04 pm
Im kind of a stats guy,,, todAy alone Ive seen 1% probabilitys happen twice. I dunno. I know making things random in code is tricky... I Dunno.. 20 secs ago I lost a 20 vs 5, got it to 1.. my 3vs1s around it couldnt even take it down..
Re: CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:21 pm
don't believe for a second that the dice are random ... streaks do happen - this I understand, but not prolonged weeks long streask where you plummet 600-800 points. If it was true randomness, you'd expect to have the same fortune where you could climb back up quickly too but you don't. Its a long sustained crawl that takes weeks to get back even close to where you were.
I have met so many people who agree that for the past 8-10 months something has been wrong. 90% of the games are LOPSIDED from the start. It's almost no fun playing here anymore. The games that ARE okay make it worthwhile but when you have to play 10 games just to find one that is a real game - is it worth it?
I have met so many people who agree that for the past 8-10 months something has been wrong. 90% of the games are LOPSIDED from the start. It's almost no fun playing here anymore. The games that ARE okay make it worthwhile but when you have to play 10 games just to find one that is a real game - is it worth it?
Re: CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:10 am
I've seen a lot of dice arguments. I am currently on the opposite side. I have had ridiculously good dice. Beyond the norm, by far. However, I also don't have this preconceived notion that any game with a chance element can be fair. Chess is fair, Checkers is slightly less fair, but still overwhelmingly so. Games with dice, never fair.
Now, that said, I do believe the odds of my rolls being as good as they have been, especially defensively, is not at all realistic. There is a chance something is wrong with the randomness of the dice to be not so random and to tend towards runs. I think the attitude of the website is to never consider that notion and to just blame people for imagining things. They can do that if they want, it is their website. That said, if they want the site to be more 'fair' as so many people seem to care about, they should look at it a little again.
Now, that said, I do believe the odds of my rolls being as good as they have been, especially defensively, is not at all realistic. There is a chance something is wrong with the randomness of the dice to be not so random and to tend towards runs. I think the attitude of the website is to never consider that notion and to just blame people for imagining things. They can do that if they want, it is their website. That said, if they want the site to be more 'fair' as so many people seem to care about, they should look at it a little again.
Re: CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:35 am
Coleman wrote:I've seen a lot of dice arguments. I am currently on the opposite side. I have had ridiculously good dice. Beyond the norm, by far. However, I also don't have this preconceived notion that any game with a chance element can be fair. Chess is fair, Checkers is slightly less fair, but still overwhelmingly so. Games with dice, never fair.
Now, that said, I do believe the odds of my rolls being as good as they have been, especially defensively, is not at all realistic. There is a chance something is wrong with the randomness of the dice to be not so random and to tend towards runs. I think the attitude of the website is to never consider that notion and to just blame people for imagining things. They can do that if they want, it is their website. That said, if they want the site to be more 'fair' as so many people seem to care about, they should look at it a little again.
Totally agree, it's a healthy excercise
Re: CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:17 am
Wait a minute! I thought this issue was discussed 3 years ago? And then 2 years ago? And then last year?
Well, the posters may change, but the content certainly doesn't.
Well, the posters may change, but the content certainly doesn't.
Re: CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
Posted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:27 pm
LOOK at the comments in the games - SOMETHING ISN'T RIGHT
EVEN the high ranked players are talking about it
This is crazy
EVEN the high ranked players are talking about it
This is crazy
Re: CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:30 am
donkeymile wrote:LOOK at the comments in the games - SOMETHING ISN'T RIGHT
EVEN the high ranked players are talking about it
This is crazy
I swear on my life the dice are random! The streaks and crazy attacks are NORMAL
](./images/smilies/eusa_wall.gif "Brick wall")
Re: CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:42 am
Come on lack admit it, you have selected certain people to get bad dice simply because you don't like them or they remind you of the girl who wouldn't go out with you in high school or some other reason. That's the way most businesses run, pick a few customers to screw over to the benefit of other customers.
Re: CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:56 am
I get average dice at best.
Re: CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:15 am
My dice are fine.
And yet I suck at this game.
And yet I suck at this game.
Re: CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:10 pm
Lack - I LOVE this site and I LOVE so much about this site but there is something wrong with the dice. Seriously.
I have met so many people recently who talk about how they keep hitting bad streaks and losing 600-800 points at a time - I am in the same boat. Why are these streaks not allowing us to jump up just as quickly? Because the dice are bad for us much more than they're good. Especially at the start of games. I am not asking for fair - its dice after all ... but something is wrong and many people are talking about it.
I have met so many people recently who talk about how they keep hitting bad streaks and losing 600-800 points at a time - I am in the same boat. Why are these streaks not allowing us to jump up just as quickly? Because the dice are bad for us much more than they're good. Especially at the start of games. I am not asking for fair - its dice after all ... but something is wrong and many people are talking about it.
Re: CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:22 pm
Are you saying that you lose 600-800 points in a short period of time, but never gain that amount in a short period of time? If the dice are REALLY good as often as they're REALLY bad, how can that be?
Re: CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:22 pm
donkeymile wrote:Lack - I LOVE this site and I LOVE so much about this site but there is something wrong with the dice. Seriously.
I have met so many people recently who talk about how they keep hitting bad streaks and losing 600-800 points at a time - I am in the same boat. Why are these streaks not allowing us to jump up just as quickly? Because the dice are bad for us much more than they're good.
No...this has NOTHING to do with the dice, but rather with the way that the scoring is done. In order for what you want to happen to actually happen, you'd have to be beating as many strong players as you are losing to weak players...logically, that is a very unlikely scenario.
Re: CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:48 am
WHY IS ALMOST EVERY GAME THE PAST 6 MONTHS SO LOPSIDED??????
IT NEVER USED TO BE THAT WAY - WHAT HAS CHANGED????? IT IS SO FRUSTRATING TO PLAY A GAME WHERE THE OUTCOME IS KNOWN BY THE END OF THE FIRST TURN OR 2. I HAVE WON PLENTY OF TIMES TOO THIS WAY AND IT REALLY REALLY SUCKS ..... I WANT THE OLD CC BACK WHERE I COULD COME AND TRULY ENJOY A GOOD GAME.
RIGHT NOW ITS ABOUT 1 IN 10. THE MAJORITY OF MY OPPONENTS AGREE THAT SOMETHING CRAZY HAS BEEN GOING ON THE PAST WHILE. SORRY TO BEAT A DEAD HORSE HERE BUT WHAT IS GOING ON. ALL I WANT IS A GOOD GAME NOT A BUNCH OF LOPSIDED BLOWOUTS.
IT NEVER USED TO BE THAT WAY - WHAT HAS CHANGED????? IT IS SO FRUSTRATING TO PLAY A GAME WHERE THE OUTCOME IS KNOWN BY THE END OF THE FIRST TURN OR 2. I HAVE WON PLENTY OF TIMES TOO THIS WAY AND IT REALLY REALLY SUCKS ..... I WANT THE OLD CC BACK WHERE I COULD COME AND TRULY ENJOY A GOOD GAME.
RIGHT NOW ITS ABOUT 1 IN 10. THE MAJORITY OF MY OPPONENTS AGREE THAT SOMETHING CRAZY HAS BEEN GOING ON THE PAST WHILE. SORRY TO BEAT A DEAD HORSE HERE BUT WHAT IS GOING ON. ALL I WANT IS A GOOD GAME NOT A BUNCH OF LOPSIDED BLOWOUTS.
Re: CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:09 pm
donkeymile wrote:WHY IS ALMOST EVERY GAME THE PAST 6 MONTHS SO LOPSIDED??????
IT NEVER USED TO BE THAT WAY - WHAT HAS CHANGED????? IT IS SO FRUSTRATING TO PLAY A GAME WHERE THE OUTCOME IS KNOWN BY THE END OF THE FIRST TURN OR 2. I HAVE WON PLENTY OF TIMES TOO THIS WAY AND IT REALLY REALLY SUCKS ..... I WANT THE OLD CC BACK WHERE I COULD COME AND TRULY ENJOY A GOOD GAME.
RIGHT NOW ITS ABOUT 1 IN 10. THE MAJORITY OF MY OPPONENTS AGREE THAT SOMETHING CRAZY HAS BEEN GOING ON THE PAST WHILE. SORRY TO BEAT A DEAD HORSE HERE BUT WHAT IS GOING ON. ALL I WANT IS A GOOD GAME NOT A BUNCH OF LOPSIDED BLOWOUTS.
I can't answer you because my games AREN'T of that fashion. In fact, I've NEVER in my time here had any sort of a "string of games" where a majority of them were blowouts. Maybe that's because I'm not good enough to blow anyone out, but I play good defense. Or maybe your defense sucks. I don't know.
Re: CC is risking losing its paying customers!!!
Posted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:05 pm
The dice are perfectly random and the problem is psychology. Many people only pay attention to the dice when they lose big time and not when they win. There is an actual principle behind it and an informative link about it has been posted many times around here so search for that if you want to read more.
Since I can't make the dice any more random, I can only three things:
1) Publish dice stats to prove that they are random. I never invested time into that since there are community scripts out there that track stats and people have already posted their results.
2) Display attack results in the game log. This could help because you'll see when other people get bad dice as well. I've been putting that off because I'm scared of the load it would put on the database server.
3) Hack the dice to make them seem more fair. For example, secretly re-roll a die to avoid streaks or extreme results. This could be good for business, but anything but pure random dice - streaks and all - seems really sketchy to me.
Since I can't make the dice any more random, I can only three things:
1) Publish dice stats to prove that they are random. I never invested time into that since there are community scripts out there that track stats and people have already posted their results.
2) Display attack results in the game log. This could help because you'll see when other people get bad dice as well. I've been putting that off because I'm scared of the load it would put on the database server.
3) Hack the dice to make them seem more fair. For example, secretly re-roll a die to avoid streaks or extreme results. This could be good for business, but anything but pure random dice - streaks and all - seems really sketchy to me.