[Official] Holiday Mafia - Game Over!

[spiesr]

One random point I feel like throwing out there. Based on the information we have right now, there is no proof that Betiko is telling the truth about gifts being stolen from him. It could be that he is scum and decided to use his gifts for a scummy action. By claiming they were stolen he avoids have to answer to the town when they ask what he did with his gifts. By implying the the thief is scum he avoids having the problem of the thief never claiming.

I have no reason to believe that this is the case at present. Just noting the possibility for future reference.

[rishaed]

The game has slowed down considerably more than usual. Unfortunately, i don't have any meaningful information atm, so its a bit hard for me to post on what's going on here. I'd rather not start posting fluff either.

[anamainiacks]

Wow, the game has really slowed down here. I apologise for my lack of posting these last few days, been busy celebrating the Chinese New Year so didn't have much time to analyse the posts and all. Now, to give my take on the stuff and raise a few points.

I'm not entirely convinced by IB's case on betiko, especially the first part about superkeener, which I don't quite understand. With regard to this, I think betiko's defence was pretty convincing, in that by the time he cast his vote for the lynch, to vote or to abstain would have resulted in no different outcome. That said, this doesn't quite cover the suspicion thrown onto him from his reaction to the earlier joke vote, but this at most gets an FOS from me, for now.

But like spiesr pointed out, we don't know for sure whether betiko's telling the truth about his PM concerning gifts being stolen. If someone had his gifts stolen on Night 1, it would be great if he could corroborate this story too...

And I agree that we should be prodding the inactives... They can easily submarine at this rate.

[spiesr]

Well Betiko, your case against rishaed was slightly below average on Day 1, now it looks like bad on Day 3. Do you have any other angles we could look at? I'm not terribly motivated to find anything myself at the moment, but I would certainly offer my thoughts on any you come up with.

[pancakemix]

Vote Count

Rish - 1 (betiko)
betiko - 1 (IB)

Day ends on Feb. 22. A 24-hour runoff will be held in the even of a tie.

Little Witt was prodded yesterday, and as of right now has not responded. I'll be seeking a replacement. If there are any other requests for prod/replaces, do not hesitate to speak up.

[Metsfanmax]

But like spiesr pointed out, we don't know for sure whether betiko's telling the truth about his PM concerning gifts being stolen. If someone had his gifts stolen on Night 1, it would be great if he could corroborate this story too...

What? He never said that his gifts were stolen, at least as far as I can tell. He was asking if that had happened to anyone else. In fact, he's taking the gift stealing possibility quite seriously but now doesn't seem to think that the person who "slipped" and revealed that ability is the one that has it?

[Little Witt]

Sorry, was away for a long while. And sorry for not posting much, I was about to post several times when Betiko brought his case out but then decided not to after reading responses to it and I had lost the hope I had on getting that case going anywhere. I am not intentionally not posting in these games. RL has been rather busy, much busier than ever before.

[soundman]

But like spiesr pointed out, we don't know for sure whether betiko's telling the truth about his PM concerning gifts being stolen. If someone had his gifts stolen on Night 1, it would be great if he could corroborate this story too...

What? He never said that his gifts were stolen, at least as far as I can tell. He was asking if that had happened to anyone else. In fact, he's taking the gift stealing possibility quite seriously but now doesn't seem to think that the person who "slipped" and revealed that ability is the one that has it?

Betiko did say that his gifts were stolen.

and I can confirm that someone tried to steal my gifts last night.

vote rishaed

I just know that i received a pm telling me all gifts under my tree are gone. Good news is that i didn t have any (unless someone sent any night 2 that got stolen before i even got informed about it) so a roleblocker and a giftsteeler...

I think his case against Rishaed is very flimsy. In that joke vote exchange I think Betiko had the scummier reply. Personally I thought the same thing as Rishaed before the game even started.

[betiko]

But like spiesr pointed out, we don't know for sure whether betiko's telling the truth about his PM concerning gifts being stolen. If someone had his gifts stolen on Night 1, it would be great if he could corroborate this story too...

What? He never said that his gifts were stolen, at least as far as I can tell. He was asking if that had happened to anyone else. In fact, he's taking the gift stealing possibility quite seriously but now doesn't seem to think that the person who "slipped" and revealed that ability is the one that has it?

technically as far as I know I haven't been stolen anything, it was an attempt as I had nothing to steal.
I didn't receive any gift on night 1 for sure; and on night 2 I don't know if pcm would've told me "you received 1 gift tonight but you discover it has been stolen when you woke up" if ever I had received something on night 2 before it got stolen.
I've just been told that the gifts that had been under the tree were gone. Mets, I am not "taking the gift stealing possibility quite seriously", I know for fact that someone has that ability, I think it was pretty clear and everyone got that.

PCM, did you not prod edoc too? his last message was 17 days ago...

otherwise, the general feeling is that everyone is on an apathic mood. "I don't feel like looking back for cases, please chew them out for me, then I will give you my wise and townie opinion, eventually conclude that you're the scum for making such cases". no one is really trying and it's not really motivating.


fastposted

[edocsil]

Here are the unknown players who have posted almost nothing of merit today

NoSurvivors
rishaed
Little Witt
Myself

I would suggest a Lynch between those. I see little merit of the stuff regarding Rish or betiko, it's WIFOMy and just kinda bizarre in general.

My choice is vote Little Witt He has posted a few times saying that he is trying to improve his participation. I find this unacceptable, just as unacceptable as my continued lack of participation. However, if you all do decide to pursue me for inactivity instead I will be able to easily verify my role if forced to claim.

[betiko]

there he is!!!

hum I guess you have a point with the fact that little witt has deliberately said he is reading but not posting on purpose. I think we need a claim or 2 today, and I guess this will force him to start posting.

unvote vote little witt

[Metsfanmax]

there he is!!!

hum I guess you have a point with the fact that little witt has deliberately said he is reading but not posting on purpose. I think we need a claim or 2 today, and I guess this will force him to start posting.

unvote vote little witt

betiko is jumping all over the place. edoc didn't say anything that wasn't obvious from reading Little Witt's post, but apparently it was enough to convince betiko to change his vote.

The only reason I'm not voting betiko at this point is that I think he's too experienced to just blatantly put himself out there like this (which admittedly can devolve into WIFOM) if he was scum, but FOS betiko.

[edocsil]

there he is!!!

hum I guess you have a point with the fact that little witt has deliberately said he is reading but not posting on purpose. I think we need a claim or 2 today, and I guess this will force him to start posting.

unvote vote little witt

betiko is jumping all over the place. edoc didn't say anything that wasn't obvious from reading Little Witt's post, but apparently it was enough to convince betiko to change his vote.

The only reason I'm not voting betiko at this point is that I think he's too experienced to just blatantly put himself out there like this (which admittedly can devolve into WIFOM) if he was scum, but FOS betiko.

I did go back and read more than just that. Witt has said that several time in the last few game days, I can go grab them if you really wish.

[rishaed]

there he is!!!

hum I guess you have a point with the fact that little witt has deliberately said he is reading but not posting on purpose. I think we need a claim or 2 today, and I guess this will force him to start posting.

unvote vote little witt

betiko is jumping all over the place. edoc didn't say anything that wasn't obvious from reading Little Witt's post, but apparently it was enough to convince betiko to change his vote.

The only reason I'm not voting betiko at this point is that I think he's too experienced to just blatantly put himself out there like this (which admittedly can devolve into WIFOM) if he was scum, but FOS betiko.

It has been obvious though, he says he's been busy, been grounded, and when he does come in and post, all he says is sorry for the inactivity, I'll try to catch up and post something meaningful, which admittedly has been a little hard right now. I know this goes into a WIFOM argument, but there has been things he can throw his opinion to. In RL how I play is different than on CC, but that's because in Forums, posting activity is extremely important for everyone. You see a thread die because people read it and don't post anything. I am guilty of not posting anything of substance lately though. I must say that I haven't found a case strong enough through my rereads that I would be willing to post it. Which seems to be true of a lot of ppl right now. So I am willing to play to a vote the inactive case no matter what flak i get from it later. vote Witt. It might bring some life back into this thread.

[Metsfanmax]

there he is!!!

hum I guess you have a point with the fact that little witt has deliberately said he is reading but not posting on purpose. I think we need a claim or 2 today, and I guess this will force him to start posting.

unvote vote little witt

betiko is jumping all over the place. edoc didn't say anything that wasn't obvious from reading Little Witt's post, but apparently it was enough to convince betiko to change his vote.

The only reason I'm not voting betiko at this point is that I think he's too experienced to just blatantly put himself out there like this (which admittedly can devolve into WIFOM) if he was scum, but FOS betiko.

It has been obvious though, he says he's been busy, been grounded, and when he does come in and post, all he says is sorry for the inactivity, I'll try to catch up and post something meaningful, which admittedly has been a little hard right now. I know this goes into a WIFOM argument, but there has been things he can throw his opinion to. In RL how I play is different than on CC, but that's because in Forums, posting activity is extremely important for everyone. You see a thread die because people read it and don't post anything. I am guilty of not posting anything of substance lately though. I must say that I haven't found a case strong enough through my rereads that I would be willing to post it. Which seems to be true of a lot of ppl right now. So I am willing to play to a vote the inactive case no matter what flak i get from it later. vote Witt. It might bring some life back into this thread.

Let's not pretend that this will generate meaningful activity. We form up a wagon on the inactive, he claims, probably VT or something else meaningless, and then we're back to square one. We either lynch him or we don't, and we have more information but it's unlikely to meaningfully advance the state of the game. People still won't really know what to do with their night actions, etc.

I'm fine with voting an inactive simply because there's nothing else to do, but I don't think that's the case here, given the "case" against you and my suspicions of betiko.

[spiesr]

Rish - 1 (betiko)
betiko - 1 (IB)
Little Witt - 3 (edocsil, betiko, rishaed)
Deadline February 22

A question for you Metsfanmax, why haven't you placed your vote on Betiko yet? You clearly think it is the best lead there is right now. If you don't vote for him it obviously won't go anywhere, so why hold off?

On the Little Witt topic, while his behavior is certainly far form acceptable, I feel that a lynch on him is effectively a shot in the dark. Sure, you could get lucky, but there is nothing indicating he is or isn't scum. That said, if this is what you guys want to do and you would like my vote to speed up the process, just let me know.

[betiko]

Rish - 1 (betiko)
betiko - 1 (IB)
Little Witt - 3 (edocsil, betiko, rishaed)
Deadline February 22

A question for you Metsfanmax, why haven't you placed your vote on Betiko yet? You clearly think it is the best lead there is right now. If you don't vote for him it obviously won't go anywhere, so why hold off?

On the Little Witt topic, while his behavior is certainly far form acceptable, I feel that a lynch on him is effectively a shot in the dark. Sure, you could get lucky, but there is nothing indicating he is or isn't scum. That said, if this is what you guys want to do and you would like my vote to speed up the process, just let me know.

witt is reading the thread and not posting, no one said we would lynch before hearing a defense.

[edocsil]

Rish - 1 (betiko)
betiko - 1 (IB)
Little Witt - 3 (edocsil, betiko, rishaed)
Deadline February 22

A question for you Metsfanmax, why haven't you placed your vote on Betiko yet? You clearly think it is the best lead there is right now. If you don't vote for him it obviously won't go anywhere, so why hold off?

On the Little Witt topic, while his behavior is certainly far form acceptable, I feel that a lynch on him is effectively a shot in the dark. Sure, you could get lucky, but there is nothing indicating he is or isn't scum. That said, if this is what you guys want to do and you would like my vote to speed up the process, just let me know.

witt is reading the thread and not posting, no one said we would lynch before hearing a defense.

The bitch of this sort of case is that there is no defense, facts are facts. The only question is whether or night his night action is worth keeping around.

[Iron Butterfly]

there he is!!!

hum I guess you have a point with the fact that little witt has deliberately said he is reading but not posting on purpose. I think we need a claim or 2 today, and I guess this will force him to start posting.

unvote vote little witt

betiko is jumping all over the place. edoc didn't say anything that wasn't obvious from reading Little Witt's post, but apparently it was enough to convince betiko to change his vote.

The only reason I'm not voting betiko at this point is that I think he's too experienced to just blatantly put himself out there like this (which admittedly can devolve into WIFOM) if he was scum, but FOS betiko.

It has been obvious though, he says he's been busy, been grounded, and when he does come in and post, all he says is sorry for the inactivity, I'll try to catch up and post something meaningful, which admittedly has been a little hard right now. I know this goes into a WIFOM argument, but there has been things he can throw his opinion to. In RL how I play is different than on CC, but that's because in Forums, posting activity is extremely important for everyone. You see a thread die because people read it and don't post anything. I am guilty of not posting anything of substance lately though. I must say that I haven't found a case strong enough through my rereads that I would be willing to post it. Which seems to be true of a lot of ppl right now. So I am willing to play to a vote the inactive case no matter what flak i get from it later. vote Witt. It might bring some life back into this thread.

Let's not pretend that this will generate meaningful activity. We form up a wagon on the inactive, he claims, probably VT or something else meaningless, and then we're back to square one. We either lynch him or we don't, and we have more information but it's unlikely to meaningfully advance the state of the game. People still won't really know what to do with their night actions, etc.

I'm fine with voting an inactive simply because there's nothing else to do, but I don't think that's the case here, given the "case" against you and my suspicions of betiko.

There is an old saying, "Shit or get off the pot".

You did say something interesting though and perhaps I am misreading it but what exactly do you mean when you say,"People still won't really know what to do with their night actions, etc."

You also seem to be saying that your not voting because they will claim VT anyways? The fact is we all need to vote someone to lynch. They claim and we either believe them or we do not. If we don't vote no game and we stay in limbo forever.

[rishaed]

there he is!!!

hum I guess you have a point with the fact that little witt has deliberately said he is reading but not posting on purpose. I think we need a claim or 2 today, and I guess this will force him to start posting.

unvote vote little witt

betiko is jumping all over the place. edoc didn't say anything that wasn't obvious from reading Little Witt's post, but apparently it was enough to convince betiko to change his vote.

The only reason I'm not voting betiko at this point is that I think he's too experienced to just blatantly put himself out there like this (which admittedly can devolve into WIFOM) if he was scum, but FOS betiko.

It has been obvious though, he says he's been busy, been grounded, and when he does come in and post, all he says is sorry for the inactivity, I'll try to catch up and post something meaningful, which admittedly has been a little hard right now. I know this goes into a WIFOM argument, but there has been things he can throw his opinion to. In RL how I play is different than on CC, but that's because in Forums, posting activity is extremely important for everyone. You see a thread die because people read it and don't post anything. I am guilty of not posting anything of substance lately though. I must say that I haven't found a case strong enough through my rereads that I would be willing to post it. Which seems to be true of a lot of ppl right now. So I am willing to play to a vote the inactive case no matter what flak i get from it later. vote Witt. It might bring some life back into this thread.

Let's not pretend that this will generate meaningful activity. We form up a wagon on the inactive, he claims, probably VT or something else meaningless, and then we're back to square one. We either lynch him or we don't, and we have more information but it's unlikely to meaningfully advance the state of the game. People still won't really know what to do with their night actions, etc.

I'm fine with voting an inactive simply because there's nothing else to do, but I don't think that's the case here, given the "case" against you and my suspicions of betiko.

Its not meaningless, information is power, or better yet quoted Knowledge is power. The more I/Town knows about each other the better decisions I can make. N1 is usually a crapshoot on targets, whether for doc's, RB's, NK's, vig's (usually advised against N1). However the more information is out the better I can plan my actions. Ex. When I know everyone's role as an SK, I can choose the roles that are more lethal to my win condition. On the other hand, if I'm a doc, and the cop gets outed D1 i know who to protect in the night. After information is given, we are never back to square 1.
An advance in information is always an advance in the game, whether positive or negative. In any case see the blue part it addresses that issue. And you start getting voting patterns, things that are wonderful over time to see who has been consistently BW'ing sheeping, or just being indecisive.
In other news I think the case on me is as bad as division by zero. However Betiko is more than welcome to try and dig up cases. If he's scum he'll slip somewhere and someone will catch him sooner or later. So I'm not convinced and I'm not voting him. Witt however is the perfect example as a Town doing as much as he can to help Scum. He doesn't post much so he can get targeted on a case like this, and when he does post it doesn't help the situation at all, he's not casting a vote, hes not throwing his opinion of the situation in, he's posting most likely because he got prodded. It might work in RL, to keep the confusion down, but here its one of the worst things you can do.

[Little Witt]

What am I supposed to do? I am not as active on these because I don't have as much experience as any of you. These games I've joined are my first (Holiday, No-Handlebars, Community) ever real from the start nothing to go on mafia games EVER. I am gonna be near a computer from 9:00-12:00 AM Central USA Time. And if you guys can help me prove myself and show I am not scummarining on purpose and not be lynched because I have less experience than all of you.

[Little Witt]

Quick Reply
And am I really the lest active poster? I do not think I am. Trust me on this, I work a lot better when I have something I understand, allowing me to provide helpful info instead of this "I'm here but busy and don't have any input" Trust me, I don't like not having anything to say as much as yhou do. I want to post something useful but I have nothing at all to go on.

[Iron Butterfly]

What am I supposed to do? I am not as active on these because I don't have as much experience as any of you. These games I've joined are my first (Holiday, No-Handlebars, Community) ever real from the start nothing to go on mafia games EVER. I am gonna be near a computer from 9:00-12:00 AM Central USA Time. And if you guys can help me prove myself and show I am not scummarining on purpose and not be lynched because I have less experience than all of you.

You cant play the Newb card forever. You were a player in one of the best games one could learn from, HP LoveCraft, which you fail to mention.

We can not prove anything for you only you can do that. You ARE scummaring on purpose and you have stated so several times and in this post. Weather you are Town, Mafia or Third Party the way you are playing is doing no one any favors.

[anamainiacks]

What am I supposed to do? I am not as active on these because I don't have as much experience as any of you. These games I've joined are my first (Holiday, No-Handlebars, Community) ever real from the start nothing to go on mafia games EVER. I am gonna be near a computer from 9:00-12:00 AM Central USA Time. And if you guys can help me prove myself and show I am not scummarining on purpose and not be lynched because I have less experience than all of you.

You cant play the Newb card forever. You were a player in one of the best games one could learn from, HP LoveCraft, which you fail to mention.

Correction, I have less experience than you: this, along with Community, is my first CC Mafia game; AND I have never played any game prior to these 2, not even from any intermediate stage of the game. I'm not saying I deserve props for this, but if you're going to play the newbie card at this stage of the game, I think it's only fair that I pull out these things.

I'm not saying you (or we) are not to be excused for making an occasional slip-up here and there; but when it comes to activity and posting, I think being a newbie is hardly an excuse at this point in the game. It has been mentioned more than enough times and stated more than clearly that the way to keep things moving is through posting and giving input. Even if it is just to provide a similar train of thought, just showing your agreement is information in itself. It's now Day 3 in the game, and I don't think it's possible for anyone, even a new player, to not have realised that posting is what keeps the game going, and is built upon for later days. If anything, betiko's constant urges for everyone to post should've been enough for one to realise as much.

[rishaed]

What am I supposed to do? I am not as active on these because I don't have as much experience as any of you. These games I've joined are my first (Holiday, No-Handlebars, Community) ever real from the start nothing to go on mafia games EVER. I am gonna be near a computer from 9:00-12:00 AM Central USA Time. And if you guys can help me prove myself and show I am not scummarining on purpose and not be lynched because I have less experience than all of you.

Even if you are a noob, go read the Archives, I read through at least several games there to see how it was played on CC, before I even signed up on anything here. And I'm sure that more than a few of us have mentioned, POSTING your opinion on just about every case even if its redundant. Or you can find your own case, in which if your not sure how, reading some games from the Archives are great examples on how to build cases. HP Lovecraft is also a good example on that one. So no, in terms of slip-ups like WIFOM setups/ accidental BW'ing/sheeping one might play the noob card, not posting anything when it has been repeatedly stated that posting is like the Most Important thing you could do, is not something acceptable though. What we're upset about is not that you haven't been posting after prodded, its that you aren't posting anything except that you got the prod.
Enough though, anamainiacks posted a well thoughout post on posting anyways so props to him