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Re: Re:
Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 7:59 pm
by Timminz
KLOBBER wrote:jay_a2j wrote:...primordial ooze???? What is this star trek?
It's closer to that than you may think upon first glance. Evolution theory is basically nothing but science fiction.
They formerly always depicted imaginary creatures like "tyrannosaurus rex" standing straight up. Then Jurassic Park came out, where similarly imaginary beasts were depicted standing in a more horizontal position. Next thing you know, these fools changed their theories about these fictional models to stand like they did in Jurassic Park! These charlatans base their ridiculous theories on science fiction movies and TV shows more than the other way around. It is all so ridiculous. Pure fantasy, with absolutely no evidence in reality.
Did you just say that tyrannosaurus rex is an imaginary beast?
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 8:40 pm
by KLOBBER
This thread and this poll are excellent. I am thankful to Jay for creating them, and I admire him for his faith, intelligence, and strong determination.
Here's another cool thread:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=87616
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 9:01 pm
by AgentSmith88
owheelj wrote:Regarding whether Klobber is a troll or not, I'd have to raise the issue of Poe's Law.
Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing.
Anyway regarding what's been said. Again evolution and speciation are different things. It's funny that the people who claim evolution is false don't actually know what evolution is.
That said, given the rate that we've observed evolution occurring at, combined with the enormous physical evidence for the age of the Earth, it is very easy to extrapolate out that range of genetic change and genetic difference and see that it is easily possible that we've evolved all the way back from single celled life to where we are today.
Something I find interesting is that if you look at the details, the so called "micro evolution" of creationists is actually a lot faster than the "macro evolution" of rational people. Let me explain.
God created the first humans - Adam and Eve. Let's assume that God created them with 2 sets of genes like everybody else today, rather than one. From those two people we now have the genetic diversity we have today. Look at the height difference between essentially normal people. Look at the skin colour. It's definitely possible to tell somebodies racial background based on their genetics (although perhaps not in line with common perception of different races). Creationists call this change from 2 people to the massive genetic variety expressed through easily observable physical traits "micro evolution" but they also claim that it's occurred over about 6,000 years.
Scientists, on the other hand, claim that this amount of change has occurred over a few hundred thousands years at the very least.
If people could change from being racially identical to having a difference in pigment as marked as the difference between a Swede and a Zulu in only 6000 years, that's an incredible rate of evolution that's far faster than anything scientists think occurs. How do creationists reconcile this fact?
What in the hell are you doing in this forum? You are way too smart to be hanging out in threads that are essentially shouting matches. I enjoy your input.
Re: Re:
Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 9:15 pm
by neanderpaul14
Timminz wrote:Did you just say that tyrannosaurus rex is an imaginary beast?
Everyone knows they were just made up to scare kids, just like gremlins, werewolves, and eskimos.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 9:21 pm
by owheelj
lol cheers
I don't know about me being too smart, I just have a keen interest in biology, which is very helpful when you're studying it at uni, since I rarely feel like I'm studying.
I do tend to only get involved in evolution vs creationism debates occasionally, because they're typically the same claims made by creationists (that they've actually been making for literally hundreds of years) and it gets boring repeating the same information. However I often find it useful to explain stuff I've learnt or am learning to other people to better memorise and develop the concepts, and I also find that debates like this sometimes inspire me to ask new questions and research new areas, so it can be useful, just only in moderation
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 9:59 pm
by PLAYER57832
owheelj wrote: Anyway regarding what's been said. Again evolution and speciation are different things. It's funny that the people who claim evolution is false don't actually know what evolution is.
Technically correct, but speciation is a part of evolution. "evolution" refers to all change over time. Sepciation is when different species evolve. It could be a full transition.. more or less the entire species changes form, etc. OR, (far more common) when species diversify and separate (physically, behaviorally locationally or otherwise) and become independent species.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 10:09 pm
by owheelj
Yep totally. Speciation is a consequence of evolution combined with barriers (physical or otherwise) preventing populations from breeding with each other.
If you accept evolution really occurs, and we know for a fact that it does because we've observed it (see those lizard experiments, etc.), and we accept that populations can be separated from breeding with each other, and we know this is a fact because we've observed it, and we accept that the Earth is older than at least a few hundred million years old, and we do know this because of the overwhelming geological, genetic, chemical, physical and cosmic evidence, then we have to accept that speciation also occurs.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 10:16 pm
by PLAYER57832
owheelj wrote:lol cheers
I don't know about me being too smart, I just have a keen interest in biology, which is very helpful when you're studying it at uni, since I rarely feel like I'm studying.
I do tend to only get involved in evolution vs creationism debates occasionally, because they're typically the same claims made by creationists (that they've actually been making for literally hundreds of years)
I urge you to look into what the Institute for Creation Research is putting forward. It really is something a bit new. (not to mention they keep changing what they actually post). That is, yes, the basic concepts are old, but the way they twist science to pretend they are putting forward truth is pretty scary... particularly when you realize how many people, in the US at least, actually believe this stuff.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 10:20 pm
by 2dimes
KLOBBER wrote:This thread and this poll are excellent. I am thankful to Jay for creating them, and I admire him for his faith, intelligence, and strong determination.
Here's another cool thread:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16924&p=344907#p344907
Ok, spammer.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 2:14 am
by xelabale
Logic does not dictate that there is a God. It is a choice to believe or not believe in God, but we can neither prove nor disprove God's existence. Of course trying to is fun.
Personally I choose to believe God exists.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:03 am
by JoshyBoy
There is a God.
The people who believe there is not are bound for a lost eternity at best.
However, I respect their opinions.
Ooh I got my first ever disciplinary warning today!
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:10 am
by TheProwler
JoshyBoy wrote:There is a God.
The people who believe there is not are bound for a lost eternity at best.
Yeah, I really enjoy the perceived attitude of God.
"If you don't believe in me, you are bound for a lost eternity at best!!!""I will give you a mind to make logical decisions. But if that mind decides that I don't exist, I'm gonna make you pay for a real long time!! Bwaahahaha!!"So kind and loving, this God of yours.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:12 am
by xelabale
JoshyBoy wrote:There is a God.
The people who believe there is not are bound for a lost eternity at best.
However, I respect their opinions.
Ooh I got my first ever disciplinary warning today!
Ridiculous. Don't pretend you respect others opinions when you think they are "bound for lost eternity at best". How can you respect that?
You cannot say "There is a God". It is not a fact, it is your belief.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:13 am
by JoshyBoy
xelabale wrote:You cannot say "There is a God". It is not a fact, it is your belief.
Yes I can, and I think you'll find I just did.
Oh and it is a fact, not just my belief.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:15 am
by xelabale
JoshyBoy wrote:xelabale wrote:You cannot say "There is a God". It is not a fact, it is your belief.
Yes I can, and I think you'll find I just did.
Oh and it is a fact, not just my belief.
God doesn't exist. Fact.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:15 am
by JoshyBoy
TheProwler wrote:"I will give you a mind to make logical decisions. But if that mind decides that I don't exist, I'm gonna make you pay for a real long time!! Bwaahahaha!!"
So kind and loving, this God of yours.
He graciously gave us the gift of free will.
And because of sin there are people who will never learn to accept him and those people are bound for a lost eternity.
I am just telling you how it is.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:16 am
by JoshyBoy
xelabale wrote:JoshyBoy wrote:xelabale wrote:You cannot say "There is a God". It is not a fact, it is your belief.
Yes I can, and I think you'll find I just did.
Oh and it is a fact, not just my belief.
God doesn't exist. Fact.
Shame I got there before you.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:17 am
by xelabale
JoshyBoy wrote:xelabale wrote:JoshyBoy wrote:xelabale wrote:You cannot say "There is a God". It is not a fact, it is your belief.
Yes I can, and I think you'll find I just did.
Oh and it is a fact, not just my belief.
God doesn't exist. Fact.
Shame I got there before you.
Being first doesn't make it more fact. If something is a fact it should be provable. Prove that God exists.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:18 am
by JoshyBoy
xelabale wrote:JoshyBoy wrote:xelabale wrote:JoshyBoy wrote:xelabale wrote:You cannot say "There is a God". It is not a fact, it is your belief.
Yes I can, and I think you'll find I just did.
Oh and it is a fact, not just my belief.
God doesn't exist. Fact.
Shame I got there before you.
Being first doesn't make it more fact. If something is a fact it should be provable. Prove that God exists.
Prove he doesn't.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:20 am
by JoshyBoy
Oh well, once again it's been fun coming on here and having another pointless arguement, but now I have to go have a shower and go to college.
I will respond to your posts later when I can be bothered dealing with you.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:20 am
by xelabale
I don't have to, I'm saying it's a belief not a fact - you aren't required to prove a belief, you are required to prove a fact. You must prove that God exists, I am comfortable believing God exists.
So, prove it or withdraw it.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:21 am
by JoshyBoy
xelabale wrote:I don't have to, I'm saying it's a belief not a fact - you aren't required to prove a belief, you are required to prove a fact. You must prove that God exists, I am comfortable believing God exists.
So, prove it or withdraw it.
I don't have to prove a fact. It's a fact. Facts don't need proving.
And don't be so stupid. Like I'm going to withdraw it.
Laters.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:24 am
by john9blue
JoshyBoy wrote:I don't have to prove a fact. It's a fact. Facts don't need proving.
You are a Neanderthal. Fact.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:25 am
by xelabale
JoshyBoy wrote:xelabale wrote:I don't have to, I'm saying it's a belief not a fact - you aren't required to prove a belief, you are required to prove a fact. You must prove that God exists, I am comfortable believing God exists.
So, prove it or withdraw it.
I don't have to prove a fact. It's a fact. Facts don't need proving.
And don't be so stupid. Like I'm going to withdraw it.
Laters.
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Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 3:29 am
by TheProwler
JoshyBoy wrote:TheProwler wrote:"I will give you a mind to make logical decisions. But if that mind decides that I don't exist, I'm gonna make you pay for a real long time!! Bwaahahaha!!"
So kind and loving, this God of yours.
He graciously gave us the gift of free will.
And because of sin there are people who will never learn to accept him and those people are bound for a lost eternity.
I am just telling you how it is.
Face it, your idea of God is that of a spoiled-rotten dictator that demands respect through fear and intimidation.
I'm not saying there isn't a God. I'm saying that I know the definition of fair and just and good. And I hope that God is fair and just and good. I hope He isn't how you believe Him to be.