[Official] Holiday Mafia - Game Over!

[thechuck51]

and I can confirm that someone tried to steal my gifts last night.

vote rishaed

This looks like the break we've been waiting for. vote rishaed

[NoSurvivors]

and I can confirm that someone tried to steal my gifts last night.

vote rishaed

How would this work? And how would you know? (First gifting type mafia sorry lol :s)

[MoB Deadly]

A real lead?

vote rishead

[betiko]

I just know that i received a pm telling me all gifts under my tree are gone. Good news is that i didn t have any (unless someone sent any night 2 that got stolen before i even got informed about it) so a roleblocker and a giftsteeler...

[MoB Deadly]

I just know that i received a pm telling me all gifts under my tree are gone. Good news is that i didn t have any (unless someone sent any night 2 that got stolen before i even got informed about it) so a roleblocker and a giftsteeler...

oh so wait.. why rishead? (I guess I could go back to the end of day 1, or you could tell me cuz im lazy )

[thechuck51]

I just know that i received a pm telling me all gifts under my tree are gone. Good news is that i didn t have any (unless someone sent any night 2 that got stolen before i even got informed about it) so a roleblocker and a giftsteeler...

then how do you know it was rishaed?

fastposed by MoB

[betiko]

I just know that i received a pm telling me all gifts under my tree are gone. Good news is that i didn t have any (unless someone sent any night 2 that got stolen before i even got informed about it) so a roleblocker and a giftsteeler...

then how do you know it was rishaed?

fastposed by MoB

I'm going back to my begining of day 1 case. rishaed joking about mob stealing gifts and being the first one to bring it up. It looked like a very plausible game mechanic, now i know for sure it's part of the game.

[thechuck51]

I just know that i received a pm telling me all gifts under my tree are gone. Good news is that i didn t have any (unless someone sent any night 2 that got stolen before i even got informed about it) so a roleblocker and a giftsteeler...

then how do you know it was rishaed?

fastposed by MoB

I'm going back to my begining of day 1 case. rishaed joking about mob stealing gifts and being the first one to bring it up. It looked like a very plausible game mechanic, now i know for sure it's part of the game.

unvote this isn't quite the concrete evidence i was hoping for

[betiko]

I just know that i received a pm telling me all gifts under my tree are gone. Good news is that i didn t have any (unless someone sent any night 2 that got stolen before i even got informed about it) so a roleblocker and a giftsteeler...

then how do you know it was rishaed?

fastposed by MoB

I'm going back to my begining of day 1 case. rishaed joking about mob stealing gifts and being the first one to bring it up. It looked like a very plausible game mechanic, now i know for sure it's part of the game.

unvote this isn't quite the concrete evidence i was hoping for

you're free to move on another lead, I'd still want a claim from rishaed.

[spiesr]

Betiko, the way you made your initial post kind of implied that you had actually evidence that rishaed stole your gifts. Phrasing it the way you did seems rather irresponsible.

[MoB Deadly]

unvote this isn't quite the concrete evidence i was hoping for

unvote........... same thoughts as chuck.

Not saying I am not going to put my vote on rishead today, but I was under the impression betiko had a real lead, not a D1 case. I have to review it for myself and see if there is anything substantial there.

[betiko]

hum well, unfortunately the pm was not saying anything regarding the author of the theft. still sounds like a pretty bad news though... mafia can steal ALL gifts at once from someone (if it is mafia and not a third party).
Doesn't seem like we will openly get more public info from last night, so I think rishaed is a good starting point. Much better case than keener yesterday imo.

[MoB Deadly]

hum well, unfortunately the pm was not saying anything regarding the author of the theft. still sounds like a pretty bad news though... mafia can steal ALL gifts at once from someone (if it is mafia and not a third party).
Doesn't seem like we will openly get more public info from last night, so I think rishaed is a good starting point. Much better case than keener yesterday imo.

Maybe the stealer doesn't have to be mafia.
Maybe there is like a grinch-like character that wants to "kill christmas" by killing the gifter(s) and stealing all the presents, regardless of alignment?

I dont even know if there is a grinch in rankin/bass I am just guessing

[MoB Deadly]

Betiko, would you please reform or repost the actual case on rishead? I haven't the time to do research right now. And since you are kind of leading this case I would like to know which posts you find to be scummy

[betiko]

this is what happened basically early day 1. I still can't figure who has the scummiest reaction there, rishaed or mets... will have a look at other posts from rishaed later on.

vote MoB for stealing all the presents D: see in the hands and on the back!

how do you even know you can steal presents?

Vote betiko for that massive slipup

the slip up is from rishaed, he's the one that brought this up.

No, you did. He mentioned presents in a CHRISTMAS based mafia, in a joke vote no less. You're treating them as a game mechanic that can be "stolen."

[anamainiacks]

Purely based on the posts betiko quoted above, I don't see what's scummy about Mets' response at all.

betiko was pointing out a supposed slip-up by rishaed - for alluding to a game mechanic that we weren't aware existed at the time;
Mets was calling out betiko for a supposed slip-up as well - for potentially 'knowing' that the game mechanic did indeed exist.

Especially after the contention over the game mechanics over gift stealing was made so clear, I don't think Mets can be called under suspicion for 'knowing' something that the rest of us didn't know of. If there was a slip-up in that dialogue at all, it should lie with either rishaed or betiko.

That said, I still think it was just a joke vote, and not much evidence with which to build a case... I don't think betiko slipped up either, as if he did, he wouldn't be bringing it up now, out of the blue. Best to leave a slip-up untouched. I guess he could well be calling our bluff with some reverse psychology thing, but since it would only last for a round (i.e. if he were indeed faking, we'd find out if we followed his lynch vote and failed), I don't think betiko would take such a risk.

I'm interested to see what betiko can find on rishaed's posts, though (:

[rishaed]

If there truly is a gift stealing mechanic out there, I wouldn't have know. I just looked above me to see who had already voted, saw MoB's avatar, and made an appropriate joke Vote. I know that you are trying really hard to dig up a case, but I think you are reading too much into that joke vote. Allluding to a game mechanic in a joke vote like that means absolutely nothing. It just as likely that anyone who makes a statment like that in a joke vote is town/scum. If you want to build a case on me go right ahead though.

[MoB Deadly]

I agree with the others. Based on the quote you provided the scummiest comment there was actually yours betiko

Kanin explained my initial thoughts pretty well

I dont see anything scummy from rishead or mets

[Iron Butterfly]

hum I got to say that wasn't the townie I was expecting to find dead today. But not really surprised to see that keener was telling the truth.
nendreel what are the news today?

"bah 1 day left, I don't see how this is gonna end other than with keener's lynch, might as well get this going.
vote superkeener.
A bit of a gamble, but that role will only be really usefull really later in the game. I have nothing that tells me he is scum or town, so with the doubt... anyway I don't know about that miser situation, they are not telling all the perks.."

I want to go back to keener because this seems important to me.

He was not surprised to see keener lynched and also states before the lynch he feels it is a forgone conclusion. Yet he say's I have nothing to tell me one way or another he is Town or Scum So he votes to lynch. Talk about hedging bets while trying to appear Town. Its easy to say after the fact about not being surprised.

I say all this because I also thought betiko had evidence on reshead about the gift stealing and even started a mini bandwagon. A page later it comes out there is no evidence, just pure speculation. While its ok to discuss speculation I find it very odd and scummy in the in the way it was presented.

What also raised my eyebrow was betiko believed Rishead should claim using false evidence. If betiko is mafia or third party it just helps set the table for them.

I also couldn't help but get the feeling that if rishead was lynched and flips town Betiko could once again safly go oh well I was wrong.

Vote Betiko

I will not be wishy washy.

[betiko]

hum I got to say that wasn't the townie I was expecting to find dead today. But not really surprised to see that keener was telling the truth.
nendreel what are the news today?

"bah 1 day left, I don't see how this is gonna end other than with keener's lynch, might as well get this going.
vote superkeener.
A bit of a gamble, but that role will only be really usefull really later in the game. I have nothing that tells me he is scum or town, so with the doubt... anyway I don't know about that miser situation, they are not telling all the perks.."

I want to go back to keener because this seems important to me.

He was not surprised to see keener lynched and also states before the lynch he feels it is a forgone conclusion. Yet he say's I have nothing to tell me one way or another he is Town or Scum So he votes to lynch. Talk about hedging bets while trying to appear Town. Its easy to say after the fact about not being surprised.

I say all this because I also thought betiko had evidence on reshead about the gift stealing and even started a mini bandwagon. A page later it comes out there is no evidence, just pure speculation. While its ok to discuss speculation I find it very odd and scummy in the in the way it was presented.

What also raised my eyebrow was betiko believed Rishead should claim using false evidence. If betiko is mafia or third party it just helps set the table for them.

I also couldn't help but get the feeling that if rishead was lynched and flips town Betiko could once again safly go oh well I was wrong.

Vote Betiko

I will not be wishy washy.

People have been telling me they were surprised I wasn't agressive on keener. if you look back I've been trying to find better stuff than this, but no one had been following. The case on keener was only smoke. After that, he claimed and I thought it was a dodgy role. Even if there was 90% chances he was telling the truth, I would've hated to have a mafia roleblocker or something, was pretty difficult to prove his role. I just gave up on him and went with the bet that he could eventually turn scum, other people had his faith sealed anyway and all conversations had died. So yes, I'm not surprised he turns out town as the odds for me were highly leaning that way. Blame me for his lynch if you want, that last vote really made the difference! why don't you look at people convinced back then by the fluffy case, like rishaed for example?

where did i say I had strong evidence on the gift stealing case? the lead is good enough for me since it's been ticking me since the start of the game. there is no rule that says that in the joke vote stage someone can't slip. Au contraire! People tend to lower their guard and can be more chitty chatty. Is it my fault if people blindly bandwagonned on my case without asking questions? that is the question.
ANd make him claim using false evidence? lol. false evidennce would be saying "I got a PM telling me rishaed stole all my gifts last night" can you quote the false evidence please, cause I can't quite catch you?

Suppose your case gets me lynched and you see that I'm town. You'll have to admit you were wrong, so would that mean you're scum? lol pretty moot thinking there.

[betiko]

wow, so much conversation in here. I wanted todo a little recap:

jonty -> rudolph, town redirector
Kanin Usagi -> little drummer boy, town inspiration
superkeener -> baby new year, town roleblocker

spiesr -> snow miser, 3rd party heat miser lyncher
soundman -> heat miser, 3rd party survivor
nendreel -> ?, possible town cop

so we are left with 10 we know very little about:
NoSurvivors
rishaed
betiko
edocsil
Little Witt
anamainiacks
Iron Butterfly
MoB Deadly
Metsfanmax
thechuck51

[betiko]

can we prod little witt, metsfan and edoc? they haven't posted in a week or so...

[Metsfanmax]

Most of that week was night time. I'll add in some more concrete thoughts in a day or two, but I am persuaded by the arguments against betiko. I won't vote yet until I can explain myself better.

[betiko]

well if you guys feel like wasting our time with me go ahead, if at least there were more stuff going on in here.. I guess that with the 2 gifts first cap no one has had the chance to trade anything yet (unless 2 different gifters sent their 1st gift to the same person on night 1 which would be very unlikely). I kind of feel like this is a bit unballanced for town if mafia are able to steal gifts (unless it's a 1 shot, and in that case it would be pretty stupid to use it so soon).I'm starting to think it's possibly more of a 3rd party ability, otherwise we stand no chance against them..
Anyway, I'm kind of thinking this could be a nice little setup. Mafia knew I would get jumpy about the gift stealing, so they targeted me. Did anyone receive a PM after night 1 telling them they got all their gifts stolen?

[MoB Deadly]

can we prod little witt, metsfan and edoc? they haven't posted in a week or so...

I think focusing on submariners is a good idea, with a game with this level of activity the scum could win just by casting a few votes and submarining. I have seen that happen before.


As for the case on betiko, I will say I have seen quite a few comments that jumped out at me. But at best betiko would get a FOS from me. He has been the most active, so of course I am not going to agree with every single post he makes. When there is 1 main leader of a mafia game you always have to be cautious that they dont fog up the game more and lead down dead paths.

However, I think our activity is slacking and without betiko this game will get even more inactive. I think he is worth more to us alive, even if we are risking a chance that he is mafia.