Conquer Club

-=- Tanarri -=- wrote:About Propaganda, I was just remembering some discussion a few pages back about whether the neutral countries should have bonuses added to them or not. I wonder if maybe extending the +2 bonus you get for foreign homelands to the neutral countries as well would make Propaganda worth it? It would give another nice way to tie research to the conquer map.

If this happened, I think Propaganda would have to have its neutral value increased a bit... perhaps 15?

Does anyone have any thoughts on this suggestion? Feel free to say it sucks horribly if it does

I like the idea, Tanari, if nothing else because Propaganda needs fixing and the idea doesn't suck.

What's up with this map development? It seems to have stalled a bit over the last couple weeks

It might be that Oliver is MIA... dunno, life happens

I'll be honest, I haven't had the motivation to pull out another version. I've done a lot of things to the map, and half of them haven't even been used (I'm looking at the wireframe yeti INSISTED was necessary for gameplay evalution...and hasn't been commented on at all). I'll see what I can do towards a new version this weekend.

TaCktiX wrote:I'll be honest, I haven't had the motivation to pull out another version. I've done a lot of things to the map, and half of them haven't even been used (I'm looking at the wireframe yeti INSISTED was necessary for gameplay evalution...and hasn't been commented on at all). I'll see what I can do towards a new version this weekend.

I insisted on something else actually that still hasn't been delivered.

C.

yeti_c wrote:

TaCktiX wrote:I'll be honest, I haven't had the motivation to pull out another version. I've done a lot of things to the map, and half of them haven't even been used (I'm looking at the wireframe yeti INSISTED was necessary for gameplay evalution...and hasn't been commented on at all). I'll see what I can do towards a new version this weekend.

I insisted on something else actually that still hasn't been delivered.

C.

Then I don't understand what you want. Please SHOW me what you want.

How about making that conquer objective now that it is possible? Ie. hold 66% of the conquer territories to win, or something similar.

Was definitely considering it. I'm going to be very busy this week, so I won't be able to get to work on Version 4 until the weekend.

Something like this...

OliverFA wrote:

C.

Oliver has gone missing, so I've taken authorship of the thread and updated the first post as appropriate. I'm still behind on my workload, so there may/may not be movement on Version 4. In the meantime, two major questions popped up over this last version: should two of the same researches give you twice the benefit, and what to do about Propaganda? I've already started a poll for the former, and I'd like some specific thoughts on how to improve/revamp/or keep the same Propaganda. As it stands, the only difference between foreign and own homeland is one territory: the capital.

I'm sorry I haven't posted any immediate feedback... they're both very good questions that I'm going to have to think about... I'm so undecided, I haven't even voted in the poll yet.

TaCktiX wrote:Oliver has gone missing, so I've taken authorship of the thread and updated the first post as appropriate. I'm still behind on my workload, so there may/may not be movement on Version 4. In the meantime, two major questions popped up over this last version: should two of the same researches give you twice the benefit, and what to do about Propaganda? I've already started a poll for the former, and I'd like some specific thoughts on how to improve/revamp/or keep the same Propaganda. As it stands, the only difference between foreign and own homeland is one territory: the capital.

I really believe that doubling the bonuses is a bad idea, though admittedly more because it doesn't make sense from a design perspective for the reasons I mentioned before. I think it's enough that a player in a 2 or 3 player game will have the extra troops from the second capital and lab to research different techs than the first capital and lab are researching.

For propaganda, I do think that it needs to be improved, as it's just too weak right now. As it is, you will either own the entire homeland area, capital included, or the player who owns the capital is going to easily break the current propaganda bonus. I had mentioned the possibility of making the neutral territories benefit from the +2 bonus as well, which would add some more research/conquer dynamics to the strategies. Another idea I just thought of, which I don't like as much, would be to make the bonus larger and count if you own the capital as well. This way owning a foreign homeland area would be worth more than owning your own. I think the second idea makes less sense from a design perspective, but would add some incentive to attack your enemies from a gameplay perspective.

TaCktiX wrote:In response to the previous post...
I'm beginning to realize it's an ongoing concern about 2-3 player games. In those games, each player will get 2 capitals, and 2 labs. To say "you only get 1 of those" is just straight wrong. It will have an interesting implications with Propaganda, National Pride, and Mining, but when you think about it, the player is researching those twice, so they should get twice the bonus, yes? Propaganda we will likely need to code so that it triggers when you DON'T hold the capital (so you get the +4 out of the homeland as expected). Picking up the capital will likely remove the Propaganda bonus and replace it with generic Homeland, since technically you own the country now.

As a further argument in regards to "but if someone eliminates another and picks up all their research, they get all the benefits," think about real war. Once a nation is taken over, inevitably its secrets and capabilities are given to the victor. And it's an interesting gameplay twist that we've been trying to cultivate this entire time, hence the title "Research & Conquer."

I have not been paying attention to this thread from the start, so forgive me if this suggestion has already been said. Is it possible for, in 2-3 player games, to have each person start with only 1 capital and 1 lab, but then if they conquer a neutral capital they get a few random technologies for free? Like the neutral capital was doing their own research. I don't know if this is possible with the current XML, but it would be more in line with Civilization and would give additional incentive to conquer neutral capitals.

Also, I don't think you can have technologies count twice if you hold two of them. That is not realistic... If the US conquered a England, for example, out technologies would not suddenly become more effective. We would, however, get their resources which is already covered in the mines. (I didn't vote in the poll, count me as a no).

-carlpgoodrich

carlpgoodrich wrote:I have not been paying attention to this thread from the start, so forgive me if this suggestion has already been said. Is it possible for, in 2-3 player games, to have each person start with only 1 capital and 1 lab, but then if they conquer a neutral capital they get a few random technologies for free? Like the neutral capital was doing their own research. I don't know if this is possible with the current XML, but it would be more in line with Civilization and would give additional incentive to conquer neutral capitals.

Unfortunately it's not possible to have the neutrals doing their own research. I'm not even sure it's possible to have players start with 1 country each.

I'm not even sure it's possible to have players start with 1 country each.

not it's not.

Starting points are always divided equally, thus if you have 6 starting points then in 3 player games each gets 2 and 2 player games, each gets 3. There's no way to make it so that each gets 1 starting point in all games from 2 to 6 players.

Sorry about the further delay, my workload all over is keeping me from having time to address R&C. I HAVE finished the bridge model (gogo AutoCAD in 3D!), just need to do some tweaks and adjustments for each required bridge angle. Hopefully they're liked. Meanwhile, I'll tease with one of the full-size export renders:

[bigimg]http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/3623/rctrestle1.jpg[/bigimg]

That bridge looks really nice. Great work Tacktix

Wow... that's an impressive bridge.

Sadly, it doesn't look that awesome on the map due to scale-down. Still looks like a nice perspective-laden bridge, but not with all the detail of the model I made. Meh.

Yeah, too much detail isn't good for scaling down images... they get messy. Try something simpler... for example, remove all the "X" beams from the bridge, and it may scale down better.

I am temporarily vacationing this map. I just got a very high leadership position in my real life, and it's already been sapping my time significantly. I can barely do enough to keep me Carto duties going for the next 5 weeks. Hopefully after that I'll have time to return to the map.

[Moved]

Congrats on the leadership position TaCktiX. I look forward to the next update once you get back

Hey TaCktiX, any news on when we should expect the map to de-vacationed? I'm guessing the leadership position got extended?

In case you are still listening, TaCktiX, natty_dread thinks the new losing conditions/requirements XML feature would be useful for this map. Any comment?