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Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:06 pm
by Gregrios
Juan_Bottom wrote:Gregrios wrote:Iliad wrote:So evolution is a story, while creation is the absolute truth(which has evidence right, gregrios? )
Right
In all seriousness, what good would evidence do?
If God showed his face to the world, there would people who would say:
"It was the sun bouncing off the water and then mixing with the moon's light that caused this phenomenon"
....or something to that effect.
It would be absolutely pointless. People who are hell bent against beleiving in God would most certainly find a way to justify such a phenomenon.
I think that this actually describes you in the opposite sense. Your hell-bent and making excuses. Like why God can't come to the party.
You're right. I am hell bent on the existence of God and I am giving you valid reasons why God might not prove himself to the world. So we agree on that.
There is however another theory I have but I'm not about to bring that into the discussion. No good can come from it so I'm keeping it to myself.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:19 pm
by ParadiceCity9
ParadiceCity9 wrote:OK. Now. All you church-goers, please provide me some insight on why you believe that there is a God.
Still waiting...
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:39 pm
by Gregrios
ParadiceCity9 wrote:ParadiceCity9 wrote:OK. Now. All you church-goers, please provide me some insight on why you believe that there is a God.
Still waiting...
I just know it and that's all there is to it.
....but if you want to know why I decided to consider God's existence in the 1st place. Well, there are a few reasons.
1. The world's complexity.
2. Pascal's Wager.
3. The intelligence and prophetic power of the Bible.
4. I asked God for a little sign of his existence.
That's how I went from being self serving to a faithful beleiver.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:45 pm
by ParadiceCity9
Gregrios wrote:ParadiceCity9 wrote:ParadiceCity9 wrote:OK. Now. All you church-goers, please provide me some insight on why you believe that there is a God.
Still waiting...
I just know it and that's all there is to it.
....but if you want to know why I decided to consider God's existence in the 1st place. Well, there are a few reasons.
1. The world's complexity.2. Pascal's Wager.3. The intelligence and prophetic power of the Bible.4. I asked God for a little sign of his existence.That's how I went from being self serving to a faithful beleiver.
Not necessarily striking me as proof of God.Enlighten me.An inanimate object can't have intelligence and I want proof of any prophetic powers in anything.[
And the sign was???
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:56 pm
by rocky mountain
ParadiceCity9 wrote:DirtyDishSoap wrote:rocky mountain wrote:God is not affected by time, so he doesn't have a beginning or an end. he just always was. its hard for anyone to understand, and christians can't comprehend it either, but its what the bible says, and we believe it. God did not come from anywhere. he always was, is, and always will be. its quite mind boggling, so thats where faith comes in
They just do apparently
Is he saying he believes in something he doesn't even understand? What a tard.
do not call me that. i just can't comprehend/fathom that little aspect. i understand other things about christianity.
ParadiceCity9 wrote:ParadiceCity9 wrote:OK. Now. All you church-goers, please provide me some insight on why you believe that there is a God.
Still waiting...
to be honest, i grew up in a christian home. however, that did not guarantee me salvation, so i made my own choice to follow God, and now i am a child of God. would i have made the same decision if i grew up in a non-christian environment? who knows? God has a plan for my life, so he put me here for a reason.
Iliad wrote:So evolution is a story, while creation is the absolute truth(which has evidence right, gregrios? )
Right
actually, yes.
I have a question for you guys: would you still believe evolution if Darwin hadn't of existed? if he hadn't of written the "origin of species?"
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:59 pm
by Frigidus
ParadiceCity9 wrote:Gregrios wrote:ParadiceCity9 wrote:ParadiceCity9 wrote:OK. Now. All you church-goers, please provide me some insight on why you believe that there is a God.
Still waiting...
I just know it and that's all there is to it.
....but if you want to know why I decided to consider God's existence in the 1st place. Well, there are a few reasons.
1. The world's complexity.2. Pascal's Wager.3. The intelligence and prophetic power of the Bible.4. I asked God for a little sign of his existence.That's how I went from being self serving to a faithful beleiver.
Not necessarily striking me as proof of God.Enlighten me.An inanimate object can't have intelligence and I want proof of any prophetic powers in anything.[
And the sign was???
1. True that.
2. It's basically saying that it's riskier not to believe in God than to believe in him. I always thought that was the entire point of hell, threatening you into agreement. Pascal's wager just points that out again.
3. He's basically saying "the Bible is well written and thought provoking". I can say that about a few books, actually.
4. Probably something minute. Hence the word small.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:59 pm
by ParadiceCity9
rocky mountain wrote:I have a question for you guys: would you still believe evolution if Darwin hadn't of existed? if he hadn't of written the "origin of species?"
Lol that was one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. If someone else had postulated Evolution through observation, then yes, obviously.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:04 pm
by ParadiceCity9
rocky mountain wrote:ParadiceCity9 wrote:DirtyDishSoap wrote:rocky mountain wrote:God is not affected by time, so he doesn't have a beginning or an end. he just always was. its hard for anyone to understand, and christians can't comprehend it either, but its what the bible says, and we believe it. God did not come from anywhere. he always was, is, and always will be. its quite mind boggling, so thats where faith comes in
They just do apparently
Is he saying he believes in something he doesn't even understand? What a tard.
do not call me that. i just can't comprehend/fathom that little aspect. i understand other things about christianity. ParadiceCity9 wrote:ParadiceCity9 wrote:OK. Now. All you church-goers, please provide me some insight on why you believe that there is a God.
Still waiting...
to be honest, i grew up in a christian home. however, that did not guarantee me salvation, so i made my own choice to follow God, and now i am a child of God. would i have made the same decision if i grew up in a non-christian environment? who knows? God has a plan for my life, so he put me here for a reason.
Iliad wrote:So evolution is a story, while creation is the absolute truth(which has evidence right, gregrios? )
Right
actually, yes.I have a question for you guys: would you still believe evolution if Darwin hadn't of existed? if he hadn't of written the "origin of species?"
Ok well that's the thing we're arguing. The existence of God. Also, I'll call you what I want. It's not like I called you anything profane, like a little bitch (not calling you that, just an example)Didn't provide any proof whatsoever......Well? Let's see the proof of creationism.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:09 pm
by Gregrios
ParadiceCity9 wrote:Gregrios wrote:ParadiceCity9 wrote:ParadiceCity9 wrote:OK. Now. All you church-goers, please provide me some insight on why you believe that there is a God.
Still waiting...
I just know it and that's all there is to it.
....but if you want to know why I decided to consider God's existence in the 1st place. Well, there are a few reasons.
1. The world's complexity.2. Pascal's Wager.3. The intelligence and prophetic power of the Bible.4. I asked God for a little sign of his existence.That's how I went from being self serving to a faithful beleiver.
Not necessarily striking me as proof of God.Enlighten me.An inanimate object can't have intelligence and I want proof of any prophetic powers in anything.[
And the sign was???
1. You asked for my reasons.
2. Look it up.
3. I wasn't referring to the Bible itself but the one who inspired it.
4. Does it matter?
This is the last time I'm going to humor you by answering your patronizing questions.
Hope you enjoyed!
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:13 pm
by rocky mountain
ParadiceCity9 wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
Read up...unlike your buddy Jay did.
here is my take on this:
wiki wrote:In biology, evolution is the process of change in the inherited traits of a population of organisms from one generation to the next. The genes that are passed on to an organism's offspring produce the inherited traits that are the basis of evolution.
that is not evolution. its called genetics.
mutations do not prove evolution. they are just mutations. plus, the odds that two organisms that have the exact same, beneficial mutations mate and reproduce and start a whole new species are pretty slim. mutations are not part of evolution.
wiki wrote:Over many generations, adaptations occur through a combination of successive, small, random changes in traits, and natural selection of those variants best-suited for their environment.
again, is not evolution, but adaptation.
how come we don't see beneficial mutations anymore? all of our mutations nowadays are harmful. if it could happen then, why can't it happen now?
extinction is not evolution. humans have driven many animals into extinction, and you don't say they became extinct because of evolution. the dinosaurs did not become extinct because of evolution either. i say it was a flood, you say it was an asteroid, either way, it was sudden, and does not prove evolution.
wiki wrote:All organisms on Earth are descended from a common ancestor or ancestral gene pool.
so what was that common ancestor. or is that the "missing link?"
the picture beside it is the "homonoids." who cares if we look like them. humans have more similar DNA to a chicken and E. Coli.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:24 pm
by rocky mountain
ParadiceCity9 wrote:rocky mountain wrote:ParadiceCity9 wrote:DirtyDishSoap wrote:rocky mountain wrote:God is not affected by time, so he doesn't have a beginning or an end. he just always was. its hard for anyone to understand, and christians can't comprehend it either, but its what the bible says, and we believe it. God did not come from anywhere. he always was, is, and always will be. its quite mind boggling, so thats where faith comes in
They just do apparently
Is he saying he believes in something he doesn't even understand? What a tard.
do not call me that. i just can't comprehend/fathom that little aspect. i understand other things about christianity. ParadiceCity9 wrote:ParadiceCity9 wrote:OK. Now. All you church-goers, please provide me some insight on why you believe that there is a God.
Still waiting...
to be honest, i grew up in a christian home. however, that did not guarantee me salvation, so i made my own choice to follow God, and now i am a child of God. would i have made the same decision if i grew up in a non-christian environment? who knows? God has a plan for my life, so he put me here for a reason.
Iliad wrote:So evolution is a story, while creation is the absolute truth(which has evidence right, gregrios? )
Right
actually, yes.I have a question for you guys: would you still believe evolution if Darwin hadn't of existed? if he hadn't of written the "origin of species?"
Ok well that's the thing we're arguing. The existence of God. Also, I'll call you what I want. It's not like I called you anything profane, like a little bitch (not calling you that, just an example)Didn't provide any proof whatsoever... you didn't ask for proof. just why we believe in God. i told you why...
...Well? Let's see the proof of creationism.look at this site
clicky you can just type in things in the search.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:27 pm
by ParadiceCity9
ParadiceCity9 wrote:rocky mountain wrote:ParadiceCity9 wrote:DirtyDishSoap wrote:rocky mountain wrote:God is not affected by time, so he doesn't have a beginning or an end. he just always was. its hard for anyone to understand, and christians can't comprehend it either, but its what the bible says, and we believe it. God did not come from anywhere. he always was, is, and always will be. its quite mind boggling, so thats where faith comes in
They just do apparently
Is he saying he believes in something he doesn't even understand? What a tard.
do not call me that. i just can't comprehend/fathom that little aspect. i understand other things about christianity. ParadiceCity9 wrote:ParadiceCity9 wrote:OK. Now. All you church-goers, please provide me some insight on why you believe that there is a God.
Still waiting...
to be honest, i grew up in a christian home. however, that did not guarantee me salvation, so i made my own choice to follow God, and now i am a child of God. would i have made the same decision if i grew up in a non-christian environment? who knows? God has a plan for my life, so he put me here for a reason.
Iliad wrote:So evolution is a story, while creation is the absolute truth(which has evidence right, gregrios? )
Right
actually, yes.I have a question for you guys: would you still believe evolution if Darwin hadn't of existed? if he hadn't of written the "origin of species?"
Ok well that's the thing we're arguing. The existence of God. Also, I'll call you what I want. It's not like I called you anything profane, like a little bitch (not calling you that, just an example)Didn't provide any proof whatsoever... you didn't ask for proof. just why we believe in God. i told you why... Sorry I meant show proof.
...Well? Let's see the proof of creationism.look at this site
clicky you can just type in things in the search. Why can't you just tell me?
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:29 pm
by jay_a2j
If someone was to walk up to me and ask me, "Do you believe in God?" I would say "no". The Bible says, "You say that you
believe in God? Good! Even demons
know there is a God and tremble!"
A lot of people who "believe" in God are going to hell.
Belief in something is based on no evidence for or against. Examples; Santa (as a child- sorry suggs didn't mean to ruin it for ya), Bigfoot and Lock Ness Monster. It is believing something is true without having "hard " evidence to support it.
When I first became a Christian, I "believed" in God. Since my faith has grown, I no longer "believe" it, I know it. You can't "know" it without first believing.
Those of you searching for "proof" will never find it. (the Bible says something about "they will ask for a sign and none will be given") Proof of God lies within the hearts of believers.
Also, how can one talk about the love of Christ, tell other Christians they are wrong and then end his post with, "atheists, I hope you have fun in hell"????????????? ...... this may be one of those "speck"/"plank" things. No one is going to "have fun in hell".
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:30 pm
by rocky mountain
Gregrios wrote:ParadiceCity9 wrote:Gregrios wrote:ParadiceCity9 wrote:ParadiceCity9 wrote:OK. Now. All you church-goers, please provide me some insight on why you believe that there is a God.
4. I asked God for a little sign of his existence.
And the sign was???
4. Does it matter?
Hope you enjoyed!
yes it would really help. you shouldn't say something like that and not say what it was. if we know what the sign was, then we can judge it...
ParadiceCity9 wrote:Why can't you just tell me?
because you didn't tell me, you linked me to a site.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:33 pm
by ParadiceCity9
rocky mountain wrote:ParadiceCity9 wrote:Why can't you just tell me?
because you didn't tell me, you linked me to a site.
Ya but I directly linked you to a site. Not the site's homepage.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:36 pm
by rocky mountain
jay_a2j wrote:Also, how can one talk about the love of Christ, tell other Christians they are wrong and then end his post with, "atheists, I hope you have fun in hell"????????????? ...... this may be one of those "speck"/"plank" things. No one is going to "have fun in hell".
rocky mountain wrote:(by the way, this is not an un-respectful thing, its just what i believe will happen)
ok, maybe i shouldn't have said that. i did not say other christians are wrong. i just said i didn't think the way you were answering posts was *not respectful. i know its not fun in hell. the sentence just came out. what is a "speck"/"plank" thing???
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:37 pm
by rocky mountain
ParadiceCity9 wrote:rocky mountain wrote:ParadiceCity9 wrote:Why can't you just tell me?
because you didn't tell me, you linked me to a site.
Ya but I directly linked you to a site. Not the site's homepage.
wikipedia is not an evolution site. the site i linked was specifically a creationist site.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:44 pm
by jay_a2j
"take the plank out of your own eye before helping someone with the speck in theirs" (paraphrased)
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:45 pm
by Gregrios
rocky mountain wrote:yes it would really help. you shouldn't say something like that and not say what it was. if we know what the sign was, then we can judge it...
Are you serious?
I judged it and it's ancient history. Why would I need others to judge it?
The answer is I don't.
I appreciate your concern but holy crow, give your head a shake.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:46 pm
by rocky mountain
ok. i get it now. but did you see the rest of my post?
ok fine forget about the judge statement. i couldn't think on how else to phrase it... i would still like to know what it was though...
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:58 pm
by Frigidus
rocky mountain wrote:that is not evolution. its called genetics.
mutations do not prove evolution. they are just mutations. plus, the odds that two organisms that have the exact same, beneficial mutations mate and reproduce and start a whole new species are pretty slim. mutations are not part of evolution.
But the odds of those two organisms surviving to pass on those "beneficial" genes are slightly higher. You are correct that mutations are not part of evolution, but the weeding out of "bad" characteristics and the spreading of "good" ones is the essential idea behind natural selection. Few people argue against that, so I think we can continue...
rocky mountain wrote:again, is not evolution, but adaptation.
how come we don't see beneficial mutations anymore? all of our mutations nowadays are harmful. if it could happen then, why can't it happen now?
We see beneficial traits everywhere. Intelligence, strength, hardiness, they all would give a theoretical advantage in the wild. The thing is that we aren't in the wild any more. There are fewer and fewer types of things that will genuinely make someone less likely to reproduce. We have separated ourselves so far from nature that evolution (something already outrageously slow) has essentially stopped.
rocky mountain wrote:extinction is not evolution. humans have driven many animals into extinction, and you don't say they became extinct because of evolution. the dinosaurs did not become extinct because of evolution either. i say it was a flood, you say it was an asteroid, either way, it was sudden, and does not prove evolution.
Extinction has little to do with evolution, other than the whole species being removed from the gene pool bit. Evolution involves things that live, the branching off of one currently existing species into multiple separate ones. While on this note though, did you know that there have been a total of six mass extinctions since life came into being? The mass extinction of the dinosaurs was merely one of them.
wiki wrote:All organisms on Earth are descended from a common ancestor or ancestral gene pool.
so what was that common ancestor. or is that the "missing link?"
the picture beside it is the "homonoids." who cares if we look like them. humans have more similar DNA to a chicken and E. Coli.[/quote]
The common ancestor would be the first single celled organism that ever existed. From there everything branches off. There's no ancestor in the sense that we would think, like a fish or a lizard or something.
A quick disclaimer before we get into this: I'm not a biologist. Far from it. I'm talking about evolution the way I understand it, but much like, say, calculus, I don't understand it in its entirety. If my explanations are gross misrepresentations of current evolutionary theory I apologize.
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:59 pm
by Mr_Adams
pie is my proof that God exsists. how else could delecious fruits and sometimes vegetables baked in a light flaky pastry exsist without some gracious higher being to give it to us?
(I am suprisingly skinny for all my pie related comments...
)
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:01 pm
by Mr_Adams
This argument is completely usless from the christian perspective. I mean honestly, these people wouldn't except that God exsists if he had them trapped in a giant glass jar, like ants. They would yell "E.T., E.T.!!".
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:03 pm
by rocky mountain
??
Re: Logic dictates that there is a God!
Posted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 11:15 pm
by jay_a2j
rocky mountain wrote:ok. i get it now. but did you see the rest of my post?
Yeah, I don't ever read just the last line of a post..... maybe just the first line but never just the last.
Sorry if my posts are "not respectful" enough for you. I'll try to work on that.
With all due respect,
jay