universal healthcare

[grandin]

Now look here, you skeptics:

[spoiler=Statistics]Per capita total expenditure on health ($) - 2000:
Canada - 2509
Norway - 3039
Sweden - 2283
U.S.A - 4570

Adult mortality rate (probability of dying between 15-60 years per 1000 population) both sexes - 2006:
Canada - 72
Norway - 70
Sweden - 64
U.S.A - 109

Age-standardized mortality rate for cancer (per 100 000 population) - 2002:
Canada - 138
Norway - 137
Sweden - 116
U.S.A - 134

Age-standardized mortality rate for cardiovascular diseases (per 100 000 population) - 2002:
Canada - 141
Norway - 181
Sweden - 176
U.S.A - 188

Age-standardized mortality rate for injuries (per 100 000 population) - 2002:
Canada - 34
Norway - 35
Sweden - 30
U.S.A - 47

Infant mortality rate (per 1 000 live births) both sexes - 2006:
Canada - 5
Norway - 3
Sweden - 3
U.S.A - 7

Life expectancy at birth (years) both sexes - 2006:
Canada - 81
Norway - 80
Sweden - 81
U.S.A - 78

Maternal mortality ratio (per 100 000 live births) - 2005:
Canada - 7
Norway - 7
Sweden - 3
U.S.A - 11

Years of life lost to communicable diseases (%) - 2002:
Canada - 6
Norway - 5
Sweden - 4
U.S.A - 9

Years of life lost to injuries (%) - 2002:
Canada - 15
Norway - 12
Sweden - 11
U.S.A - 17

Prevalence of adults (>=15 years) who are obese (%) male:
Canada - 15.9 [2003]
Sweden - 10.4 [2003]
U.S.A - 31.1 [2004]

stats from http://www.who.int/whosis/en/index.html[/spoiler]
Please, get yourself a decent health care system.

I will never ever fully trust a private health care institution, and i think most scandinavians would agree with me on this. A company does not have my best interest at heart, and never will, what they will always be aiming for is a big fat plus sign in their budget, and thats a fact.

As soon as money enters into any calculation, the value of human and animal life quickly diminishes. Look at private health care, the meat industry, horse racing, logging, whatever - this is always the case.

Private health care? No way. The powers that be are pushing hard for it in Sweden at the moment, and the quality of our health care is in a downward spiral. "Save money, save money, we need to lower the taxes". Bullshit. 'Lower taxes' is a synonym for 'fooling you into obedience while pretending the opposite'. Everyone wants low taxes, but the cost is always higher than people realize - at least until it's too late. Pay up a couple of extra % for a decent health care system, and i promise you; you'll save alot of money in the end, and become a healthier happier population at large. Look at the statistics i just provided - they don't lie. You can of course expect a roaring opposition from the rich, screaming 'commie!' as often as they can - but c'mon, that's just silly.

There are some inherent flaws in a state-run system, but in a privately run they are so much more devastating.

The lower classes have everything to gain, the middle class won't loose anything, and the rich wont have to start working as janitors (promise). It wont lead to communism either.

[grandin]

Total Health Expenditures as % of GDP, 2002-2005 - Country Rankings

I really can't understand why you fear universal health care so much. You have the second highest GDP% spending in the world, a health care that obviously doesn't work as well as our way of doing things despite being much more expensive - and you still fear it. It's weird and completely illogical.

If Sweden would increase it's GDP spending % to the same level of the U.S, this would be health-care heaven.

[heavycola]

What possible argument - unless you own stock in health insurance companies - could there be against setting up a free, nationalised health service in the US?

Well, the cost of health care would increase

The NHS is one of the biggest employers on the planet, with all the procurement efficiences that entails. Ooh the market! The market will fix everything! Except thsi is people's health and wellbeing you are talking about, and corporations aren't innately philanthropic.

the quality would go down due to lack of competition, and as a result the government might be tempted to ration services to save money thus creating waiting lists like the ones in Canada

Speculation. Market forces are not the be all and end all, and to suggest otherwise is to rubbish the work done by doctors and nurses who work for the public good.
There is a big debate in the UK about privatising parts of the NHs: for example, hospital cleaning contracts. These went to priavey comapnies, who are compelled to do their work as quickly and 'efficiently' as possible in order to maximise profit margins from their contarcts.
result: hopsitals are no longer cleaned as thoroughly, which has contributed to a rise in hospital-caught infections among patients.

Face it: the NHS rules. I've been visiting a friend in hopsital recently - she was in a serious accident, fractured her spine, internal bleeding - and the level of care she is receiving is incredible. It's just fucking civilised, is what it is.

[PLAYER57832]

These are the predictions of basic economics, which has been tested for many other industries.

1. You are wrong. Look at every other industrialized nation. They pay less, and yes, despite your claims of long waits in Canada are wrong. Ever try to get an appt with a specialist in the US lately?? -- you have to wait, often 6 months or more unless you are lucky.

2. Health care is not like any other industry. You cannot freely trade, do not have choice and don't really have the education to make an intelligent choice. We need to rely upon doctors because most of us have not been through medical school. And no, a few internet searches is NOT the same thing. Those stories of parents who find cures for their kids spend hours and hours and hours, often giving up jobs and so forth. Sure, if my kid were dying and I thought I could help, I would. However, it just is not practical in most cases.

3. LOOK at the facts, instead of just quoted what you thinkg to be true. You have not done that. If you had, you would not be so confident.