Soaps Role Madness 2! Town wins!

[Ragian]

@Loose, do you want me to vote Max so that you can choose?

[Extreme Ways]

Ok good point Ew re no factional kill - if you are prosecutor.

In my head I've got you as 30% probability of being scum.
In that scenario in my head doesn't that equate to 30% instant loss with the plan?

Also I think you are overaccreditting Kongs likelihood of being town.
I don't think I'm alone in that.

Would the equation change for you IF you too thought 55% likely Kong is scum?

I'm thinking if Max is town then hopefully he has done something useful with his role.

And town!Charle can use my kill to kill Kong. The plan should always involve Kong dying, but Max as well.

[Loose Canon]

Why is it better max dieing before Kong?

At least if Kong got lynched now there would be an insurance policy Vs you flipping scum and no night prosecution Ew?

[Loose Canon]

Rag with 2 on max and 3 on Kong, Ew has to flip either me or someone else even if you do vote max.

I guess even though I said I'd vote kong I should give Ew every opportunity to flip me at least

[Extreme Ways]

Why is it better max dieing before Kong?

At least if Kong got lynched now there would be an insurance policy Vs you flipping scum and no night prosecution Ew?

If my action doesnt go off, you nk me or you lynch me the following day if it is blocked.

I think Kong flips town, he's trying to solve the game from a role perspective and I dont see scum doing that even if they have contingencies.

His reasoning for fakeclaiming is also a valid reason, because his whole role revolves around him dying. As does Max's, but Max's role provides utility after his death and Kong's role provides utility before his death.

If we're lynching Kong, he flips v, and we enter the day with Max alive... what posts did Max make today that make you believe or not-believe his role or alignment? He's only asked questions which he already could have known the answers to.

[Devante]

UNVOTE

There’s some good comments so far want to see some more this replies to first

[Ragian]

I agree with the points on Max. Totally.

I just don't understand Kong jumping into action with a lie the minute anyone aired the thought of a mass claim. He could've just not said anything.

[Charle]

I agree with the points on Max. Totally.

I just don't understand Kong jumping into action with a lie the minute anyone aired the thought of a mass claim. He could've just not said anything.

That is absolutely my point as well Ragian, why start off with a lie when you are town then change your tune as soon as you are caught out. Does not make sense to me.

[Loose Canon]

ok I woke up prepared to lynch Kong.

Kong can be lynched if either Dev or Rag vote

I'll switch to Max if there's 3 others on Max if there's time and its the only way to get a lynch

vote Kong

[Ragian]

In case we fudge it up, I also think it would be really nice to hear where everyone stands on everyone. I think Loose has given some insights into how scummy he finds various players. I'd like to add mine too:

Scummy to chummy list:
- Kong: Lied about role when it wasn't needed and only one person had even contemplated a mass claim.
- EW: Suggested the mass claim and Kong followed. Weirdly (I think) forgiving about Kong's play. This scumminess, however, could be remedied if EW is able to prove his towniness tonight.
- Charle: This is mostly absence, and I always raise an eyebrow when people agree with me (that might be my issue rather than Charle's, though).
- Max: I have no clue about Max. Ever. He could've done loads to get people off his back, but he doesn't.
- Dev: Hasn't said too much, but seems in no rush to lynch the wrong person.
- Loose: I feel loose this game

---

Also, I've already claimed that I'm a protective role, so I might as well spill the beans that I'm town doc. Luckily, I am allowed to self-protect. This is another reason that I don't really like Kong's claim.

[Ragian]

Is Traf's role - town drunk - also a protective role? I forget what it is...

[Ragian]

Found it here: Each night, may visit and prevent a target from performing night actions. Only prevents the target's night actions if they require a visit. So a roleblocking type of action.

[Extreme Ways]

You have a big point regarding the "could just have waited" Rag, that's the biggest point against Kong I've seen...

I dont mind either lynch now, but I still think that we should always kill Charle at the trial tonight.

[Ragian]

Vote kong

I need to pick up the wee lad and take him swimming. Not sure I'm back before deadline.

[kongming3]

I'm sorry, you decided I must have copied from EW or some mysterious unnamed scum player? Could I not simply have a working brain and been able to make a solved plan based on public town information??? This is quite literally a very niche set of circumstances that aligned for town to be able to guarantee a win that potentially has never happened in this exact way before, I have never played mafia or any similar game before on another forum and would not need or be able to copy anything even if I had, and once again literally nobody has had an actual issue with any part of the logic or plan besides scum needing to try something. Lo and behold, once everything else failed Rag decides to throw a hail mary and after mysteriously waiting this entire time and waiting for everyone else to claim, even making me say my exact protective role so he couldn't accidentally double up on it, and trying everything else, he just throws that out and for some reason you believe him? And then kill me over the person who has said nothing all die, has been actively detrimental even when town, will be at best useless and have no power if town this game, survive for no good reason as scum, and who would literally have given us all the information we need to win the game if we lynched him and he had just a terrible town player who doesn't share critically useful information? At this point I'm thinking Loose must somehow be a third scum player because otherwise I can't wrap my head around what could possibly be going on with him.

The random EW doubt is also crazy, he literally has a game confirmed unblockable role that triggers this very night. Lying about that would be one of the stupidest possible things to do as scum, there's no wow we've been bamboozled and therefore scum gets an extra five kills and also still a prosector kill somehow, you would just kill EW for free and we wake up and win shortly after and scratch our heads at EW outing himself as scum for no reason or gain.

I think I'm already dead to lynch so I guess nothing I'm saying matters at this point, but I really am starting to think town has no real interest in actually playing to win and would rather just flip a coin at every decision instead of independently looking at what makes the most sense to do. For what it's worth, I think Dev has been reasonably intelligent and likely town, same for EW and he'll presumably become certified town shortly, Rag has been reasonably intelligent and very likely scum based on actions, and the last three have been an odd mix of acting dumb to get away with being scum and being dumb to get away with losing as town in what should be a won game.

[DirtyDishSoap]

That's a lynch!

Kong - Town Guardian has been lynched.

Alright, this next section is important. Please read

Once per game, may choose a player to prosecute
The following night, all players are brought to a night meeting in which only the Prosecutor and the prosecuted player may speak

Other players will act as the jury and anonymously vote whether the prosecuted player is innocent or guilty

Innocent players will return the following day, but guilty players will be visited and killed by the Prosecutor

While on trial, the prosecuted player cannot receive items, perform actions, or be killed by players other than the Prosecutor

Individual night actions of other players can still be performed, but night meetings (like the Mafia’s) will not meet or perform group actions


With that out of the way...

AND in this corner! Wearing the red trunks, standing at an Extreme 7ft 2", with a T-Rex reach of only 3", I give you EW!

And in the other corner, wearing his brown trunks so you don't see any accidents in the ring, I give you, CHARLE!

These two are the two only allowed to speak for the night. Everyone else, please do not speak, all votes for Charle whether he's guilty or innocent will be sent to me via PM. You may choose to abstain. All votes are final, so make it count. I'll extend this for 72 hours. Once i get all night actions and votes, I'll end the night.

LETS GET IT ON.

[Extreme Ways]

Hey Charle,

I do not buy your claim.

However, with this trial you have the ability to turn your town role into a vig shot of your choice.

For the jury, Charle has in the past claimed to be the Phantom:

"Each night, must choose a player to haunt

The first time they are targeted by a night kill, Phantom will kill the haunted player instead

Power can only be used at night and redirect a kill once"

Like Kong said previously, may his kind soul rest in peace, I as the prosecutor will kill a convicted person at the end of the night. I can be roleblocked, probably. Charle can be roleblocked, for sure.

I'm also using this space to say that I probably gave Ragian too much goodwill wrt the claim thing because of the points Kong mentioned in his wall. I currently believe Rag to be a scum who figured out that indeed something was needed right now or scum would lose.

[Extreme Ways]

@Devante in particular, should you be a security guard... guarding Charle WILL block my kill.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I'm going to emphasize this based on how the role is more open to to interpretation/balance:

EW cannot be role block. Likewise, Charle cannot be protected. This is more or less a one about ability, and it would be completely unfair if it can be nullified. Given that it's only one day (night), i feel on personal basis, that limiting such a unique role would do more harm than good.

I also want to emphasize that I'm not confirming Charle to be Town, Scum or Third Party, this is just a balancing answer before any questions start flooding in. For all intents and purposes consider these two immune to any night actions.

[Extreme Ways]

Oh nice. One final question though, Charle's hypothetical role protects himself. Does the phantom role count as protection here?

[Charle]

Ok, I am town Phantom as previously mentioned. The problem with your plan is that I am vanilla town tonight, as I do not have any actions while I am on trial, and I targeted Kong the previous night.

Tomorrow is a different story, then I can target one person again and if killed by scum, at least we will have another chance for a shot at scum. Should you find me guilty tonight will have zero benefit to town.

There are 6 players left and according to me scum can be between Dev, Rag, Max and Loose. There can only be 2 scum (else they would have won already) and maybe a 3rd party as well, so between the 4 mentioned above, 2 of them are scum and maybe 1 other third party.

EW is vanilla from now on so there is no point for scum to kill EW, but they can easily pic who they want the following night making our chances much smaller should you decide to kill me tonight which will just result in a vanilla town kill with zero Phantom benefits.

That's my 2 cents, so up to you guys now!

[Extreme Ways]

Why are you vanilla tonight?

[Charle]

Why are you vanilla tonight?

Because,

While on trial, the prosecuted player cannot receive items, perform actions, or be killed by players other than the Prosecutor

Individual night actions of other players can still be performed, but night meetings (like the Mafia’s) will not meet or perform group actions

[Charle]

I don't think prosecuting me was a good idea (I must say, I also did'nt know that I would not have any actions while prosecuted and was very much up for your plan, as I only benefit town when I die as Phantom). Finding me guilty now remove the Phantom benefit to town, and if I am alive tomorrow, at least we will have one extra shot until I die.

I am not sure if you/town/state can withdraw your case, and if so, what happens then? I just think that we should have the chance to attack with all the weapons we have.

[Extreme Ways]

I don't think prosecuting me was a good idea (I must say, I also did'nt know that I would not have any actions while prosecuted and was very much up for your plan, as I only benefit town when I die as Phantom). Finding me guilty now remove the Phantom benefit to town, and if I am alive tomorrow, at least we will have one extra shot until I die.

I am not sure if you/town/state can withdraw your case, and if so, what happens then? I just think that we should have the chance to attack with all the weapons we have.

You are being prosecuted already, it's up to town to declare you guilty or innocent.

I'm quite sure Max is mafia, still, and if he isn't town would benefit from him dying