Conquer Club

RedBaron0 wrote:Bushido Usually defined as: "The code of the Samurai" or literally speaking it translates: "The way of the warrior." Similar to the European concept of chivalry.

only a tad more sadistic as the europeans (and occupied asians themselves) have learned in '41-'45.

See , the modern flag does very well.


But now the attention comes to your bushido saying..."Enemies you (only) threaten , make armies, but enemies you kill make graves".
Maybe -in the light of this modern Japan map - too much reminiscent of WW2 propaganda ?
(no declaration of war needed..just attack in surprise for best result..Port Arthur, Pearl Harbor..)

Or because of the fact that it is a conquer map (of samurai times?) it is opportune ?
Are the province names from today or are they (some?) from the samurai times ?

Maybe you can find a bit less nasty Bushido quote, one with a bit more wisdom in it ?
(I google and only get to find "Tom Cruise quotes on Bushido.." ).

I don't think the Bushido quote is too nasty. I mean, let's be honest, we're playing war games here. But should Red decide to go with something else, I found one that might do:

"If the enemy thinks of the mountains, attack like the sea; and if he thinks of the sea, attack like the mountains." - Miyamoto Musashi (1584-1645)

lt_oddball wrote:

RedBaron0 wrote:Bushido Usually defined as: "The code of the Samurai" or literally speaking it translates: "The way of the warrior." Similar to the European concept of chivalry.

only a tad more sadistic as the europeans (and occupied asians themselves) have learned in '41-'45.

A little, especially when you consider the concept of seppuku or ritualistic suicide.

The Japanese while ultra modern in many respects; revere to their history like no other. The quote honestly fit what we do here to a "T." Lets face it, when you're playing and you do something stupid, and provoke an opponent, it will usually lead to your eventual death. When you kill opponents you usually win games. Plane and simple.

Names of territories are roughly the same as they were 1000+ years ago, same as Europe.

The quote sounds fine to me, and I'm sure that nobody would be upset by it. The flag was a totally different issue.

I had a quick look to try and find the Japanese for the quote, but couldn't find it. It sounds good to me whether it's accurate or not.

If you do decide to change it (and I'm anti-change for the record). A good modern Japanese saying that might fit is:

The nail that sticks up will be hammered down.
出る釘は打たれる

Still, I think this map must be ready to roll on to its next stage now. Excellent work.

Industrial Helix wrote:"If the enemy thinks of the mountains, attack like the sea; and if he thinks of the sea, attack like the mountains." - Miyamoto Musashi (1584-1645)

Yeah, I find this much better !
(but a bit long text maybe ?)

This relates more to outwitting the enemy on strategic level..whereas the one that is there now , at least for me, is reminiscent of how the japanese morally prepared themselves for the surprise attacks (deliberately without declaration of war towards in their view barbaric western opponents which were not viewed equal) on both Port Arthur and pearl Harbor (and British Malaysia, and Siam at the same time !).
Those moves were immoral...kind of like the saying "the end justifies the means" ... or "the victors (re)write history"
There is truth in it, but still immoral..

I found the following on a Bushido website. A couple you've probably heard before, (Do or do not, there is no try. -Yoda) and it is originally where I got, "Enemies you threaten make armies. Enemies you destroy make graves."

[spoiler= Bushido Quotes]'This is a collection of cool quotes that I have found, I don't know who wrote most of them. If you have any cool quotes that you would like to see on this page e-mail me them.'

"Enemies you threaten make armies. Enemies you destroy make graves."

"Be more afraid of an army of sheep led by a wolf, than an army of wolves led by a sheep."

"Everyone lies, even me."

"Life isn't fair, that doesn't mean you can't win."

"He who speaks in anger makes his anger heard, but his words forgotten."

"Patience and persistence can bring down the tallest trees."

"Petting scorpions with a compassionate hand will only get you stung."

"Friendship is tested when it's time to share the burden."

"In all the world, man is the only creature that has taught itself to argue."

"The bird does not care how it flies, and Oh! how it flies!"

"Don't worry about your beard when losing your head."

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger."

"I don't remember where I was when I realized life was a game; the more seriously I took things the harder the rules became." -Megadeth

"When a man lies he murders a part of the world. These are the pale graves which men miscall their lives. All this I cannot bare to witness any longer, cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home." -Metallica

"Here is a test to see if your mission on earth is finished: If your alive it isn't."

"Do, or do not, there is no try." -Yoda

"The hawk breaks the back of his prey not because of strength, but because of timing."

"He who knows doesn't speak; he who speaks doesn't know."

"The river has no shape, but it takes on the boundaries which it carves out for itself, so is the mind boundless, until it creates a prison for its own thoughts."

"Those who are first on the battlefield and await the opponents are at ease; those who are last on the battlefield and head into a fight become exhausted. Therefore, good warriors cause others to go to them and do not go to others." -Sun Tzu, The Art of War

"Be more afraid of an army of sheep led by a wolf, than an army of wolves led by a sheep." ---

"Even though you hold a sword over my heart I will not give up."

"Art reaches its greatest peak when devoid of self-consciousness. Freedom discovers man the moment he loses concern over what impression he is making or about to make."-Bruce Lee, Tao of Jeet Kune Do

"The true essence of a man is not what he has, but what he does."

"A reflection on a pool of water does not reveal its depth."

"It is a man's own mind, not his enemy or foe, that lures him into evil ways."

"To be foolish and recognize that one is a fool is better than to be foolish and imagine that one is wise."

"A superstar is like a roman candle, they shine bright. A teacher is like a lantern, they may not shine as bright, but they illuminate the path."

"Listen carefully to what I will say now. For the lesson is not always carried in the words of men. You see, many believe that the nature of the universe is to hide itself from mortal eyes. That we must search and meditate upon all around us to see and grasp the simple truth that is enlightenment. However, perhaps the answers are being told to us all the time and we have just forgotten how to hear them."

"Do not be wary of men who take risks with titles and lands; be wary of men who have nothing to lose."

"It is the sound of purest harmony, the sound of the universe. Make your soul sing its song, and you will find there is nothing you cannot accomplish."

"Wherever there is light, there must be shadow."

"The elements are not the means to an end... they are the beginning and the end."

"Your soul - your life energy - is not bound by flesh. It can reach where your fingers cannot."

"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, In the experts there are few."

"Zen has no secrets other than seriously thinking about life and death." - Takeda Shingen[/spoiler]

I do kinda like the quote Industrial Helix found, "If the enemy thinks of the mountains, attack like the sea; and if he thinks of the sea, attack like the mountains." - Miyamoto Musashi (1584-1645) But... it's open to interpretation, that quote already on the map is simple to understand and does represent what we do when we play this game.

I'm really getting the feeling that there is a backlash going on that stems from the issues coming from the issues that locked the Fractured America map. I think there is an effort to be too accommodating on issues that could be even the slightest bit offensive. The flag... ok, this isn't a WWII map, and the flag would be better off modern. The quote though, I don't see it making any sort of statement that is offensive in one direction or the other. I kinda see the work "kill" making the quote more sinister, and would happily go back to "destroy" instead. And no matter what the quote itself won't sound right in English because it's likely translated from Japanese.

At this point this quote should be the best addition I can make in this form, most of those other quote in the spoiler don't really feel right when put on a map being used to play a war game. Otherwise I'm thinking I may have to move in a new direction there, perhaps a yin and yang symbol, the concept is originally Chinese but is practiced and used in Japan... but still Chinese. Or I can try nothing at all, or something I haven't thought of yet...

RedBaron0 wrote:I found the following on a Bushido website. A couple you've probably heard before, (Do or do not, there is no try. -Yoda) and it is originally where I got, "Enemies you threaten make armies. Enemies you destroy make graves."

[spoiler= Bushido Quotes]'This is a collection of cool quotes that I have found, I don't know who wrote most of them. If you have any cool quotes that you would like to see on this page e-mail me them.'

"Enemies you threaten make armies. Enemies you destroy make graves."

"Be more afraid of an army of sheep led by a wolf, than an army of wolves led by a sheep."

"Everyone lies, even me."

"Life isn't fair, that doesn't mean you can't win."

"He who speaks in anger makes his anger heard, but his words forgotten."

"Patience and persistence can bring down the tallest trees."

"Petting scorpions with a compassionate hand will only get you stung."

"Friendship is tested when it's time to share the burden."

"In all the world, man is the only creature that has taught itself to argue."

"The bird does not care how it flies, and Oh! how it flies!"

"Don't worry about your beard when losing your head."

"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger."

"I don't remember where I was when I realized life was a game; the more seriously I took things the harder the rules became." -Megadeth

"When a man lies he murders a part of the world. These are the pale graves which men miscall their lives. All this I cannot bare to witness any longer, cannot the kingdom of salvation take me home." -Metallica

"Here is a test to see if your mission on earth is finished: If your alive it isn't."

"Do, or do not, there is no try." -Yoda

"The hawk breaks the back of his prey not because of strength, but because of timing."

"He who knows doesn't speak; he who speaks doesn't know."

"The river has no shape, but it takes on the boundaries which it carves out for itself, so is the mind boundless, until it creates a prison for its own thoughts."

"Those who are first on the battlefield and await the opponents are at ease; those who are last on the battlefield and head into a fight become exhausted. Therefore, good warriors cause others to go to them and do not go to others." -Sun Tzu, The Art of War

"Be more afraid of an army of sheep led by a wolf, than an army of wolves led by a sheep." ---

"Even though you hold a sword over my heart I will not give up."

"Art reaches its greatest peak when devoid of self-consciousness. Freedom discovers man the moment he loses concern over what impression he is making or about to make."-Bruce Lee, Tao of Jeet Kune Do

"The true essence of a man is not what he has, but what he does."

"A reflection on a pool of water does not reveal its depth."

"It is a man's own mind, not his enemy or foe, that lures him into evil ways."

"To be foolish and recognize that one is a fool is better than to be foolish and imagine that one is wise."

"A superstar is like a roman candle, they shine bright. A teacher is like a lantern, they may not shine as bright, but they illuminate the path."

"Listen carefully to what I will say now. For the lesson is not always carried in the words of men. You see, many believe that the nature of the universe is to hide itself from mortal eyes. That we must search and meditate upon all around us to see and grasp the simple truth that is enlightenment. However, perhaps the answers are being told to us all the time and we have just forgotten how to hear them."

"Do not be wary of men who take risks with titles and lands; be wary of men who have nothing to lose."

"It is the sound of purest harmony, the sound of the universe. Make your soul sing its song, and you will find there is nothing you cannot accomplish."

"Wherever there is light, there must be shadow."

"The elements are not the means to an end... they are the beginning and the end."

"Your soul - your life energy - is not bound by flesh. It can reach where your fingers cannot."

"In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, In the experts there are few."

"Zen has no secrets other than seriously thinking about life and death." - Takeda Shingen[/spoiler]

I do kinda like the quote Industrial Helix found, "If the enemy thinks of the mountains, attack like the sea; and if he thinks of the sea, attack like the mountains." - Miyamoto Musashi (1584-1645) But... it's open to interpretation, that quote already on the map is simple to understand and does represent what we do when we play this game.

I'm really getting the feeling that there is a backlash going on that stems from the issues coming from the issues that locked the Fractured America map. I think there is an effort to be too accommodating on issues that could be even the slightest bit offensive. The flag... ok, this isn't a WWII map, and the flag would be better off modern. The quote though, I don't see it making any sort of statement that is offensive in one direction or the other. I kinda see the work "kill" making the quote more sinister, and would happily go back to "destroy" instead. And no matter what the quote itself won't sound right in English because it's likely translated from Japanese.

At this point this quote should be the best addition I can make in this form, most of those other quote in the spoiler don't really feel right when put on a map being used to play a war game. Otherwise I'm thinking I may have to move in a new direction there, perhaps a yin and yang symbol, the concept is originally Chinese but is practiced and used in Japan... but still Chinese. Or I can try nothing at all, or something I haven't thought of yet...

I think you're good. This map really needs to be advanced now and get some games played on it. Sorry if I added to any confusion by posting an alternative quote- I like the original. I can't see anything that should hold this map back at the moment.

Not much I can do but wait my turn for graphics approval. Can't blame the staff for being backed up, there are 50-60 maps at various stages of development.

RedBaron0 wrote:Not much I can do but wait my turn for graphics approval. Can't blame the staff for being backed up, there are 50-60 maps at various stages of development.

Sure- let me just ask anybody else who's visited this thread recently- You see any reason why this shouldn't be a map? Just post your support now if you think this deserves to be played on.

This map looks as ready as the Vancouver map. Let's get testing this thing.

Support is absolutely welcome but I think part of this is going to be patience. I'm ready to go when they do, the graphics should be good, with perhaps a nitpick or two, which I will fully prepared to listen to and try and fiddle with something little that might not look right, and the XML is tested with no bugs. Just need those official XML tests in the Forge for that stamp. I've got what should be all the elements in line, unless I've totally missed something. The big thing at this point is the patience to wait and be observed by the community and get any possible kink worked out.

I'm content to wait, it's not like I have to do hard work to make sure this stays here. In an hour the thread will reach its 100th day of being in production in that time the thread is averaging a little less then 3 post a day.(2 from the community, 1 from me) I know if it goes too long I'll have to make a small update, and I don't think it has to be anything major, could try something different, or maybe run those color XML tests.

Just remember how many people volunteer their time in the Foundry, 3 carto-Mods and 7-8 assistants, probably 7 since samuelc812 just took a position as a Global mod. If this was ALL the staff ever did, there might be issue, but this is a game, and they all have real lives to deal with first and foremost.

I appreciate everyone's support, the map is for you all after-all!

This map is certainly up to standards as far as I am concerned. I like it very much, good job Red.

I like it! I like it! Leave the quote it's good as it is!

Thanks for the plug for Fractured America! We finally got those issues Straightened out!

Congrats on the sticky.

I checked over the map today, and the only thing I can find is with the names:

Just quickly:

Oki Island isn't an island, but a collection of islands. Maybe correct to Okishoto? Wiki has Okigunto as an alternative, but I checked the Japanese wiki and it looks like Okishoto is used more often. Alternately, "Oki Islands" is fine for an English translation. Any of those would be fine, I'd say.

Sea of Japan: If you want the Japanese word- it's Nihonkai. There's a bit of dispute about whether it's offensive (sorry!) to Koreans, but I think you should use the term more commonly used- which is "Sea of Japan" or "Nihonkai". This isn't really a suggestion, as "Sea of Japan" is fine. Just thought I'd give you the Japanese name.

Sorry to nitpick.

No worries, quick update there.

Version 7.4
Small - 601x600
[bigimg]http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc121/RedBaron0/japan-version74-inprogress.jpg[/bigimg]
Large - 800x799
[bigimg]http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc121/RedBaron0/bigjapan-version74-inprogress.jpg[/bigimg]

Changed Oki Island to Oki-shoto
Didn't change Sea of Japan to Nihonkai, but it could be another change later, I figure that territory needs to be acknowledged as a "Sea" in English to prevent confusion. I do know about the Korean(North and South) dispute over the official name of the sea. The United Nations Conference on the Standardization of Geographical Names officially recognizes "Sea of Japan" as standard, but many Western publications recognize the Korean claim to a point by printing "Sea of Japan (East Sea)" All things considered, I don't want to necessarily offend anyone... but this is a map of JAPAN... so Sea of Japan makes the most sense. If I make a Korean Peninsula map, it'll be marked "East Sea" or "East Sea of Korea."

What else you guys got for me?

The map is fine.
I wont bug you more about the bushido saying.

A speck: In the legend the "n" in "not" is too near the "o" so that it could read "rot"..
A bit more space should do the trick.

Version 7.5
Small - 601x600
[bigimg]http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc121/RedBaron0/japan-version75-inprogress.jpg[/bigimg]
Large - 800x799
[bigimg]http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc121/RedBaron0/bigjapan-version75-inprogress.jpg[/bigimg]

n's are n's not r's

Anyone else not liking the parchment paper? It's drawn fairly well... I don't know if it fits into the map though.

The border between Sendai and Fukushima could be better defined. Maybe by moving the top mountain or something.
On the parchment paper issue. A possible fix could be to loose it altogether, as the impassible mountain legend is not really necessary. and maybe even just go ahead and give the sea of Japan a 1 value bonus.

The other stuff is an easy fix. I keep forgetting on the big map that that line between Sendai and Yamagata doesn't touch the mountains.

Making the Sea of Japan worth 1 just so I don't have to explain it... not good. I can loose the parchment and go back to black text. I can delete the mountain on the parchment leaving just the explanation, which means I can stretch it out a little more, probably just being 2 lines of text with a space in between.

RedBaron0 wrote:The other stuff is an easy fix. I keep forgetting on the big map that that line between Sendai and Yamagata doesn't touch the mountains.

Making the Sea of Japan worth 1 just so I don't have to explain it... not good. I can loose the parchment and go back to black text. I can delete the mountain on the parchment leaving just the explanation, which means I can stretch it out a little more, probably just being 2 lines of text with a space in between.

I was looking at it more as two birds with one stone. Like maybe, the Sea of Japan might work well as a plus 1 bonus, but it was just an idea for the game play geniuses to contemplate. As you know, I am basically here for graphic interests.

Cool map! looks about ready. Nice work and Idea!

Is the red in the flag the correct shade?

Nah, that will alter gameplay too much. 1 territory for a bonus is usually frowned upon, even if it only is 1 army.

I'll make it look good, no worries.

It should be the right shade, I can check and be sure though. The opacity is turned down, so it may be blending with the blue/green behind it a smidgen.

I'm guessing the "Click here to destroy Tokyo." is starting to work.

RedBaron0 wrote:Nah, that will alter gameplay too much. 1 territory for a bonus is usually frowned upon, even if it only is 1 army.

I'll make it look good, no worries.

It should be the right shade, I can check and be sure though. The opacity is turned down, so it may be blending with the blue/green behind it a smidgen.

I'm guessing the "Click here to destroy Tokyo." is starting to work.

If you're having problems with the red blending with the blue, you can put a duplicate layer of the flag under it, and erase the white. you will then have a red dot that you can pump up to 100 %. also, on that red dot, maybe you can make it more round at the bottom left so that it does not touch the land area on the legend. this map is really looking great, and this IS the nitpick stage. So, you can take these nitpicks with a grain of salt, if you know what I mean.

Version 7.6
Small - 601x600
[bigimg]http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc121/RedBaron0/japan-version76-inprogress.jpg[/bigimg]
Large - 800x799
[bigimg]http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc121/RedBaron0/bigjapan-version76-inprogress.jpg[/bigimg]

This should address those concerns:

Parchment paper gone, explanation in black on the map itself.
Mountain in the legend is gone
red in the flag has been brought up to full opacity and the rest of the flag dropped slightly.