All your children belong to us!

[thegreekdog]

anything above a 0% success rate is a problem.

How big a problem is it? Is a 1% success rate big enough for you devote vast swathes of your life to solving? And by "solving" I don't mean convincing people who have been "turned" liberal back conservative, I mean expending energy lambasting professors and college administrations to change the culture.

if it bothered me enough, and i could actually effect meaningful change, then yes, it would be worth it, even with a 1% success rate. that's still thousands of students per year. if you could influence the political beliefs of thousands of people per year, then i'm sure you do it too.

personally i think it's more than just the professors, and i'm not really sure that the problem can be solved so easily, so i'm not especially concerned with it. there are bigger fish to fry, so to speak.

Seriously though, do you know what the success rate actually is? That would seem to be important information. For example, I know how much the federal government spends on X and I know the tax rates. I know these things so I can focus on them. I don't know what percentage of college students are swayed from one political persuasion to another based primarily or solely on formal or informal indoctrination by professors. I have anecdotal evidence that professors indirectly tried to sway opinions (in law school), but I also have anecdotal evidence that such indirect indoctrination (for lack of a better term) was unsuccessful. Before I spend time worrying about these things and trying to ascribe some large problem to them, I need more information.

[thegreekdog]

When I took political science, the professor was the head of the Democratic Party of Riverside County, CA. He was constantly quoting people like Mao, Lenin, and Patricia Schroeder to make his points about inequality. There were signs around the area which read, First Baptist Church [of wherever] or United Church Of Christ (or other denominations) "welcome you". He would spend about 5-10 minutes lecturing about how destructive such people and institutions were to society..."those people start wars!!" He literally would play and replay the Vice-Presidential debate between Dan Quayle & Lloyd Bentson where Bentson claimed he was a friend of Jack Kennedy, and piously looked down on Quayle as being no Jack Kennedy. He would then pause the tape (yeah, VHS back then) and remark how the country was so stupid to not have elected Dukakis. His office door had a poster which read, "Russia got rid of all their nukes - why don't we?" He called me into his office near the end of the semester to ask me why I felt it necessary to quote Charles Colson in my term paper..."couldn't you find a legitimate source?"

One of the great things in life was when my friend, Mark, later got hired at that same college to teach in that same classroom around 20 years later. Mark has muscular dystrophy, so sometimes he could not physically make it to class, and I would sub for him. I literally got to stand in the same spot where comrade professor used to teach, and talk about Natural Law, and its implications. Some people told me the guy committed suicide, but I never was able to confirm it.

So Phatscotty would conclude that the professor successfully swayed you to the liberal side of things.

I would have to be arguing a 100% success rate by Liberal professors in order for you to make any sense.

Right, well, I don't know what success rate you're arguing so you'll have to forgive me.

Disagreeing with snark is one thing, but to defend the most Liberal institution in America as somehow balanced in impact and influence or not a factor at all on the most impressionable minds in existence is a whole other thing.

I didn't defend the institution as balanced. For the 755th time, you have nothing to go on other than anecdotes, so I'm not going to waste my time (and neither should you).

[_sabotage_]

I can't access YouTube so I have no idea.

I'm guessing it doesn't show a teacher successfully converting students into hardcore liberals though.

Loads of free VPNs if you want to watch Youtube or Facebook.

[john9blue]

Seriously though, do you know what the success rate actually is? That would seem to be important information. For example, I know how much the federal government spends on X and I know the tax rates. I know these things so I can focus on them. I don't know what percentage of college students are swayed from one political persuasion to another based primarily or solely on formal or informal indoctrination by professors. I have anecdotal evidence that professors indirectly tried to sway opinions (in law school), but I also have anecdotal evidence that such indirect indoctrination (for lack of a better term) was unsuccessful. Before I spend time worrying about these things and trying to ascribe some large problem to them, I need more information.

all i have is a theoretical model to go by (the fact that most professors are liberal and that professors can be a huge influence on their students)

i don't see why not knowing the exact magnitude of a problem should prevent one from trying to solve it, if it's plausible that the problem exists and anecdotal evidence can back it up.

[thegreekdog]

Seriously though, do you know what the success rate actually is? That would seem to be important information. For example, I know how much the federal government spends on X and I know the tax rates. I know these things so I can focus on them. I don't know what percentage of college students are swayed from one political persuasion to another based primarily or solely on formal or informal indoctrination by professors. I have anecdotal evidence that professors indirectly tried to sway opinions (in law school), but I also have anecdotal evidence that such indirect indoctrination (for lack of a better term) was unsuccessful. Before I spend time worrying about these things and trying to ascribe some large problem to them, I need more information.

all i have is a theoretical model to go by (the fact that most professors are liberal and that professors can be a huge influence on their students)

i don't see why not knowing the exact magnitude of a problem should prevent one from trying to solve it, if it's plausible that the problem exists and anecdotal evidence can back it up.

We actually do have evidence that more professors are liberal than conservative (see page one). Phatscotty has actually provided evidence of this.

Do we have evidence that professors can have a huge influence on their students? I have no idea from an non-anecdotal perspective. Phatscotty has not provided non-anecdotal evidence of this (other than quoting someone who apparently did a study showing that some college students turn somewhat more liberal after four years of college).

So we rely upon anecdotal evidence, of which all of mine points to professors not having any influence politically over their students. Same with luns (I guess).

But let's explore something else - what would you do? What's the solution to the perceived problem?

[mrswdk]

I can't access YouTube so I have no idea.

I'm guessing it doesn't show a teacher successfully converting students into hardcore liberals though.

Loads of free VPNs if you want to watch Youtube or Facebook.

Come to China and try doing a Google search for 'free VPN', see how many of the results are accessible.

[BigBallinStalin]

I can't access YouTube so I have no idea.

I'm guessing it doesn't show a teacher successfully converting students into hardcore liberals though.

Loads of free VPNs if you want to watch Youtube or Facebook.

Come to China and try doing a Google search for 'free VPN', see how many of the results are accessible.

Have you tried using duckduckgo, bing, and other search engines?

[mrswdk]

ohyou.jpg

Let it be noted that Chinese bing actually self-censor.

[john9blue]

We actually do have evidence that more professors are liberal than conservative (see page one). Phatscotty has actually provided evidence of this.

Do we have evidence that professors can have a huge influence on their students? I have no idea from an non-anecdotal perspective. Phatscotty has not provided non-anecdotal evidence of this (other than quoting someone who apparently did a study showing that some college students turn somewhat more liberal after four years of college).

So we rely upon anecdotal evidence, of which all of mine points to professors not having any influence politically over their students. Same with luns (I guess).

But let's explore something else - what would you do? What's the solution to the perceived problem?

probably would start with the obvious: changing public policy to prevent hiring discrimination in public universities based on political beliefs, and prevent the teaching of personal beliefs in the classroom (for public universities only; private universities can do w/e they want as far as i'm concerned). if policies like this are already in place, then it's a matter of detection and enforcement.

[_sabotage_]

I'll ask for one. I used a paid one while I was there, but most people use free ones.

[thegreekdog]

We actually do have evidence that more professors are liberal than conservative (see page one). Phatscotty has actually provided evidence of this.

Do we have evidence that professors can have a huge influence on their students? I have no idea from an non-anecdotal perspective. Phatscotty has not provided non-anecdotal evidence of this (other than quoting someone who apparently did a study showing that some college students turn somewhat more liberal after four years of college).

So we rely upon anecdotal evidence, of which all of mine points to professors not having any influence politically over their students. Same with luns (I guess).

But let's explore something else - what would you do? What's the solution to the perceived problem?

probably would start with the obvious: changing public policy to prevent hiring discrimination in public universities based on political beliefs, and prevent the teaching of personal beliefs in the classroom (for public universities only; private universities can do w/e they want as far as i'm concerned). if policies like this are already in place, then it's a matter of detection and enforcement.

You did not fall into the trap.

[Phatscotty]

How to best minimize and dismiss this one?

Today we have Minnesota's teacher of the year, speaking to and getting a round applause from a room full of teachers, when she says...

“From where I stand, teachers are the last line of defense against the tyranny of the 1 percent.”

hmmm, the teacher of the year....I wonder why she was chosen. I'm sure her politics have nothing to do with it, and I'm sure her politics are not being promoted with this award.

[john9blue]

You did not fall into the trap.

i'll bite

what was the trap

[thegreekdog]

You did not fall into the trap.

i'll bite

what was the trap

I was waiting for you to say some version of "the government needs to do something" but you kept it to public universities (which the government has "control" over).

[john9blue]

oh lol

[thegreekdog]

oh lol

I can't abide hypocrisy, so when an erstwhile small government person says "the government" it gets me angry. I wasn't expecting you to type that, but I wanted to see.

[Phatscotty]

I wish what you guys say were true, that this kind of crap does not impact hundreds of thousands of intellectually unarmed and trusting children every school year

Teacher's union boss Karen Lewis blames ‘rich white people’ for Chicago’s education woes

Ms. Lewis called for a “progressive tax” that would tax the wealthier at a greater rate compared to the state’s flat-rate income tax, the Chicago Tribune reported. She also proposed a new financial transfer tax and a commuter tax.

Asked if the city schools also should boost property taxes, Lewis said, “Yes. If you look at a majority of the tax base for property taxes in Chicago, they’re mostly white, who don’t have a real interest in paying for the education of poor black and brown children. We don’t want to say that out loud.”

Read more: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... z2iuaSDrCh

I know you guys like to use the word 'anecdotal' but it becomes more than anecdotes when all the anecdotes are one sided and happen on a regular basis.

[Phatscotty]

How to best minimize and dismiss this one?

Today we have Minnesota's teacher of the year, speaking to and getting a round applause from a room full of teachers, when she says...

“From where I stand, teachers are the last line of defense against the tyranny of the 1 percent.”

hmmm, the teacher of the year....I wonder why she was chosen. I'm sure her politics have nothing to do with it, and I'm sure her politics are not being promoted with this award.

I think someone did actually once say "Phatscotty pretends like teachers meet up and talk about ways to brainwash students"......

another gem from a Minnesota University, great to know this attitude is prevalent there, of course, without having any real influence on a bunch of 18 year olds who do not even know what a Republican or a Democrat is


These teachers and professors and union bosses work TIRELESSLY to make sure they either turn out Democrats/Republican haters, and the one's who do the best get awards.

Randomly came across this one, a person who woke up and realized his education lied to him

[mrswdk]

Except that the anecdotes are not all one-sided. Even anecdotes provided by you give examples of students failing to be influenced by their partisan professors. Try again.

Are you familiar with the concept of information bias? The pile of research done into this phenomenon also suggests that your hypothesis is wide of the mark.

[Phatscotty]

Except that the anecdotes are not all one-sided. Even anecdotes provided by you give examples of students failing to be influenced by their partisan professors. Try again.

Which anecdote is that? Or are you sticking to your "as long as it's not 100% proves all"

btw, you dodged every question asked of you over the last few pages. Maybe you want to start putting up

[mrswdk]

The guy complaining about his Ivy League professors deriding Republicans in class time.

I have addressed all your points.

[Phatscotty]

The guy complaining about his Ivy League professors deriding Republicans in class time.

I have addressed all your points.

Can you post the link, or just quote the post you are talking about for that Ivy league anecdote? If it's the one I'm thinking of, you are mistaken

I have also asked how old you are, if you went to school in America, and why you are interested in this topic

[Phatscotty]

The pile of research done into this phenomenon also suggests that your hypothesis is wide of the mark.

By all means, start participating in this thread by cherry picking from the large 'pile' of evidence. Post some of those studies, I would love to see the information.

The more the merrier

I still do not see how it is even provable how much a student is impacted, or if at all. Are you saying influence is provable?

[mrswdk]

I'm in my mid-20s, have never studied in America and became interested in this thread because I was hoping I might be able to persuade you to reflect on your views a little.

There is no need for me to cherry pick the research. There is an overwhelmingly conclusive trend that people with strong political views (anywhere in the political spectrum) tend not to change their mind once its made up, rejecting any information that would undermine the stance they have taken. If you're desperate for citations then I'll find some but it's be pretty easy (and hopefully informative) for you to look it up yourself.

Obviously such research suggests that there is little point in having this discussion with you, bjt I thought I might as well try.

[Phatscotty]

We actually do have evidence that more professors are liberal than conservative (see page one). Phatscotty has actually provided evidence of this.

Do we have evidence that professors can have a huge influence on their students?

To me, it's a no brainer professors influence students. As I have said from the very beginning, it all comes down to a matter of degree. That's like asking if television can have a huge impact, or reading a book. Anything you listen to or watch, especially if you are paying thousands of dollars for it, has some influence. At least we can identify the attempts are overwhelmingly to the left.

What subject course in college teaches students to hate the 1%? What subject course teaches that our founding fathers were racist old white slave holders? What subject course teaches students that Republicans are racist? What subject course teaches students that the Tea Party is old white people who have money and don't want to pay any taxes and hate all government?


Those are some REAL questions that I would like to see asked, and in fact, I AM GOING TO ASK THEM MYSELF!!! It's become crystal clear not enough work has been done on this issue, and there is opportunity here. All the question I have seen asked of students in previous studies miss the mark, and do not account for many other things. Maybe this is my calling?