Lunar War [GP, G, X] files on p.1

[natty dread]

Another option would be to connect Roris base to northern imbrium. After all, Nectaris base also connects to 3 territories...

But I'm cool with either option.

[isaiah40]

Another option would be to connect Roris base to northern imbrium. After all, Nectaris base also connects to 3 territories...

But I'm cool with either option.

Now that I look at it, Plato gives a short cut to Frigoris and EU landing site, so go with your idea!

[natty dread]

OK. Before I make another update, I'd like to wait for a while if anyone else has any more gameplay suggestions....

[Teflon Kris]

There looks to be more balance now although ...

Maybe another missile base would be handy (SE corner somewhere) and many of the landing points in the south are closely clustered - a few extra connections or moving one or two around might help?

[natty dread]

Adding another missile base... hmm... I kinda fear it would make the rockets too vulnerable.

As for moving around the landing sites, do you have any specific suggestions?

[Teflon Kris]

Sorry for slow reply - my employer's laptop keeps having trouble with version 17 (grr, typical fascist company, deliberately crap resources, I'll start charging them rent for it being in my house if they don't sort it soon)!

[natty dread]

Ok, this thread has been a bit slow again. My Nordic map is almost finished, so I'll be working full time on this map again soon.

So for now, we're going to connect Roris to N.Mare Imbrium, but is there anything else that needs to be done to ensure gameplay balance? I'd really love a mod opinion on this.

It'd be good to get the final tweaks done and get this moving on to graphics shop soon...

[isaiah40]

Ok, this thread has been a bit slow again. My Nordic map is almost finished, so I'll be working full time on this map again soon.

So for now, we're going to connect Roris to N.Mare Imbrium, but is there anything else that needs to be done to ensure gameplay balance? I'd really love a mod opinion on this.

It'd be good to get the final tweaks done and get this moving on to graphics shop soon...

I'm thinking that the gameplay is pretty solid now (though like you say, it would be nice to get a mod's opinion on it).

[natty dread]

version 17a with the added roris connection.

Click image to enlarge.

Now if we can just have a mod visit on this thread, make the final gameplay tweaks, then move on to graphics shop where I can put the skills I've learned working on the Nordic map to good use. Really, I learned tons in the final forge and gfx shop, now looking back at the lunar war map my skills were not really great when I made the graphics on this... So, like I said earlier, I'm going to really rehaul the graphics of this map to bring it up to the foundry standard.

But that's for later... now, let's see if there's anything more that needs doing gameplay-wise?

[Evil DIMwit]

Sorry I can't do a super-in-depth analysis, due to busy season, but here are some comments to tide you over:

There are a few imbalance points:
- SA and IN both have their landing sites fairly close together, which I think puts them at a disadvantage.

Also, here's an image highlighting some points where I'm not sure whether two territories touch:

Click image to enlarge.

[natty dread]

Thanks for the analysis. For the record... Nubium & Humorum are not connected, Spumans and BR1 are not either, Serenitatis & N.Imbrium are not (except via Cassini), Eudoxus touches Serenitatis but not Frigoris, Imbrium & Medii are only connected via Eralost. and Copernicus does not connect to S. Imbrium.

I'm aware of these issues though, and I will be fixing all these issues when we are in graphics shop (as I mentioned, I'm planning a complete graphical overhaul on this map, but want to fix the gameplay in place first).

As for the SA/IN issue... I'm not sure what to do with india, but swapping SA2 with US1 could be feasible.

[Evil DIMwit]

Thanks for the analysis. For the record... Nubium & Humorum are not connected, Spumans and BR1 are not either, Serenitatis & N.Imbrium are not (except via Cassini), Eudoxus touches Serenitatis but not Frigoris, Imbrium & Medii are only connected via Eralost. and Copernicus does not connect to S. Imbrium.

I'm aware of these issues though, and I will be fixing all these issues when we are in graphics shop (as I mentioned, I'm planning a complete graphical overhaul on this map, but want to fix the gameplay in place first)

Well and good, but please indicate these all on a map in some way now for the benefit of analysis.

As for the SA/IN issue... I'm not sure what to do with india, but swapping SA2 with US1 could be feasible.

You can swap SA1 with IN1; I think that would solve it.

[natty dread]

You can swap SA1 with IN1; I think that would solve it.

Hmm, right... but won't that make SA too powerful, having such an easy access to so many He-3 mines? SA2 is only 3 craters / 6 troops away from Purbach mine. If SA1 is swapped with IN1 then SA1 will also have easy access to the Franklin mine, 2 craters in between...

Also, how about I'll make a wire model map to use for gp analysis... I'll try to have it done tomorrow.

[Evil DIMwit]

You can swap SA1 with IN1; I think that would solve it.

Hmm, right... but won't that make SA too powerful, having such an easy access to so many He-3 mines? SA2 is only 3 craters / 6 troops away from Purbach mine. If SA1 is swapped with IN1 then SA1 will also have easy access to the Franklin mine, 2 craters in between...

Considering that there are three countries that are closer to the Purbach mine than SA, I don't think it's that big of a deal.

[natty dread]

Well then, since you put it like that, it sounds good to me.

[Teflon Kris]

Sorry for the delay, I am sketching (really nasty sketching lol) a diagram of connections to get a clear picture of distances / clusters of start points etc.

I'll probably scan it and hide it under a spoiler here.

This is a compliment to the map by the way - it is a good challenge for players to work-out the geography rather than it being laid out on a plate for them.

[Teflon Kris]

Thanks for the analysis. For the record... Nubium & Humorum are not connected, Spumans and BR1 are not either, Serenitatis & N.Imbrium are not (except via Cassini), Eudoxus touches Serenitatis but not Frigoris, Imbrium & Medii are only connected via Eralost. and Copernicus does not connect to S. Imbrium.

I'm aware of these issues though, and I will be fixing all these issues when we are in graphics shop (as I mentioned, I'm planning a complete graphical overhaul on this map, but want to fix the gameplay in place first).

As for the SA/IN issue... I'm not sure what to do with india, but swapping SA2 with US1 could be feasible.

Quick check - Is Reinhold connected to any seas? I'm assuming not.

[Teflon Kris]

Now then, with the connections above clarified and my dodgy diagram one Major issue springs out:

You have five closely clustered landing points. With JP1 & US2 added to the equation, there are seven starts with only two routes out to the rest of the map (Mare Tranquilitatis & Mare Nubium). Those starts can go through 2 objective regions on one of those escape routes. They have access to a mine on the other side, altough this is very difficult alternative route.

If I were playing I would ideally hope for none of those five landing points. In a multi player game players with those starts will inevitably be fighting each other to get anywhere or focussing everything on their other landing point. This is not entirely disastrous but gives a big advantage to have both landing points away from the congestion.

As things stand the drop becomes too important in my opinion.

On a less vital note, the two HE regions in that area would be taken as part of players' natural advance. Gameplay is richer if important regions can be taken or not taken as a strategic choice.

I would suggest moving some starts out of the congestion area (and the Purbach HE) AND adding extra connections so there are extra routeyays out of the landing point metropolis (maybe routes to Mare Honorum & Sinus Medii / Mare Vaporum).



P.S. Let me know if you'd like me to post my diagram to check I've got it all right.

[natty dread]

Sure, post the diagram. Reinhold is not connected to seas btw.

And thanks for the analysis. Will have to think on possible solutions.

[natty dread]

I had a sudden inspiration so I started working on redoing the graphics.

Here's a sneak preview of version 18...

Click image to enlarge.

[isaiah40]

it totally looks cleaner now. See my PM.

[natty dread]

Ok so here's the full update, version 18. Wow, I think I worked like 10 hours straight on this. I redid all the graphics basically from scratch... I think this should look much clearer now.

We're still in gp workshop, but I don't think we'll be doing major geographic changes anymore, ie. the ocean borders probably won't change, so I thought "what the heck, people want a clearer version so let's give them one".

So here's v18.

Click image to enlarge.

So now let's get cracking on the gameplay.

Changes proposed so far: swapping IN1 with SA1, and something should be done to the lower right corner if I understood E.DW correctly.

So how about: removing the connection between US1 and Nubium, moving EU1 to border Nubium (only), and CH2 to border Medii? In addition to swapping IN1 with SA1.

What says Isaiah?

[isaiah40]

I say that should work!

I definitely like this version much better!!

[ender516]

Nice update, but the moon looks bare without Tycho's prominent rays. I suppose they might interfere with the connecting lines, but perhaps those could be coloured to stand out against the monochrome moonscape?

[natty dread]

Thanks Isaiah. I also like this version (I should hope so... I spent 10-12 hours straight doing this... I started in the afternoon and it was 5am when I was done!)

I omitted the white areas from this version for clarity reasons. However... I've looked into wikipedia trying to find out why these areas are more white than the rest of the moon. It seems it's got something to do with mineral composition...

The rim of this crater was chosen as the target of the Surveyor 7 mission. The robotic spacecraft safely touched down north of the crater in January 1968. The craft performed chemical measurements of the surface, finding a composition different from the maria. From this one of the main components of the highlands was theorized to be anorthosite, an aluminium-rich mineral.

So I guess I could just colour it a bit brighter...

Btw, did any of you notice I made the texture from the actual photo of the moon? I embossed the photo, then adjusted the luminosity curve and set it on multiply... seems to work really well.


Also, Isaiah... If I move CH2, should I connect Aliacensis directly to Stevinus?