Conquer Club

the idea behind big numbers is to eliminate streaky dice. a streak of 4 rolls were you lose 2 dice at each roll is very common. same goes for a streak where you win 4 rolls in a row.
what i'm trying to do is even the chances.

if i multiply by 3 then the attacks will be something like 18v9 instead of the normal 6v3. in a 6v3 there's a big chance of getting 2 bad rolls and stopping at 2v3

well in 18v9 the chances of winning are much bigger but the streakiness still has an important effect.
imagine a guy attacking 18v9 and losing just 1 to take it because he gets a good 4 won rolls in a row. and imagine a guy getting a streak of 4 bad rolls and finally winning the terit with 3 troops remaining. right from the start 1 guy has an advantage of 14 troops over the other just because of bad dice.

well, by increasing the armies 10 times we have a 60vs30 battle where you might get a streak of 4 sucky rolls but chances are during the same autoattack you'll also get a streak of good rolls. and in the end the difference between a player attacking 60v30 and the other player making the same attack will be small.

I understand the reason for you wanting to multiply stuff up - it will indeed reduce the streakiness considerably as you desire.


However I think we should be discussing the potential downsides to this too - the biggest of which I think is that stagnated stalemate games will become all too common (with good players anyway), because the counter attack threat is too great.

I have no way of knowing whether 3 is a good sweet spot for the multiple or not, but I tried mentally playing a game through using your current numbers and after grabbing my immediate patch I wouldn't want to attack much.


BTW use 3 1/3 instead to give nice numbers - ie. 20v10 rather than 18v9.

DiM wrote:well, by increasing the armies 10 times we have a 60vs30 battle where you might get a streak of 4 sucky rolls but chances are during the same autoattack you'll also get a streak of good rolls. and in the end the difference between a player attacking 60v30 and the other player making the same attack will be small.

Agreed totally, but please stop thinking solely about the first 2or 3 turns of the game.

BENJIKAT IS DEAD wrote:

DiM wrote:well, by increasing the armies 10 times we have a 60vs30 battle where you might get a streak of 4 sucky rolls but chances are during the same autoattack you'll also get a streak of good rolls. and in the end the difference between a player attacking 60v30 and the other player making the same attack will be small.

Agreed totally, but please stop thinking solely about the first 2or 3 turns of the game.

those are the turns that basically decide the game. if after 3 rounds you have a bonus and more troops and i don't then i'm screwed.

i will try to do more math and test things to see if i can reach a conclusion about the best multiplier.

I see that there is some shops of one color in a different color block, any reason for this?

gimil wrote:I see that there is some shops of one color in a different color block, any reason for this?

the logical explanation:

if you have a flower shop and want to open another, will you put it next door or will you put it on the other side of town to catch other customers?


the gameplay explanations

if all shops of the same colour would be in the same block then it would be really easy to get the all shops and home of the same colour bonus.
splitting them all over the map makes the bonus harder to get.

DiM wrote:

gimil wrote:I see that there is some shops of one color in a different color block, any reason for this?

the logical explanation:

if you have a flower shop and want to open another, will you put it next door or will you put it on the other side of town to catch other customers?


the gameplay explanations

if all shops of the same colour would be in the same block then it would be really easy to get the all shops and home of the same colour bonus.
splitting them all over the map makes the bonus harder to get.

Ok sorry, i misread the legends I understand now

I though you knew you wouldnt have to explain business logic to me

gimil wrote:

DiM wrote:

gimil wrote:I see that there is some shops of one color in a different color block, any reason for this?

the logical explanation:

if you have a flower shop and want to open another, will you put it next door or will you put it on the other side of town to catch other customers?


the gameplay explanations

if all shops of the same colour would be in the same block then it would be really easy to get the all shops and home of the same colour bonus.
splitting them all over the map makes the bonus harder to get.

Ok sorry, i misread the legends I understand now

I though you knew you wouldnt have to explain business logic to me

not my fault you misread the legend.

so are there any other concerns regarding the gameplay except for the actual multiplier?

can i go ahead and do the small map?

Ipersonally dont have a problem with gamepaly, and oaktowns out of town for a few days so youll need to wait for him before getting a stamp.

DiM wrote:so are there any other concerns regarding the gameplay except for the actual multiplier?

can i go ahead and do the small map?

Go for it DiM!!! (no clue what a small map is, but I'm assuming it is 1 step closer to the finished, ready-to-play, product)

If anyone else has issues with the way you designed the game-play, they'll get over it

sanosuke wrote:

DiM wrote:so are there any other concerns regarding the gameplay except for the actual multiplier?

can i go ahead and do the small map?

Go for it DiM!!! (no clue what a small map is, but I'm assuming it is 1 step closer to the finished, ready-to-play, product)

If anyone else has issues with the way you designed the game-play, they'll get over it

every map has 2 sizes. large and small. you need to make both to get the map approved and quenched.
i have been postponing the small map because i wanted to finish the gameplay and now it seems finished. and the only gameplay modifications that may arise can be tweaked from the xml thus not requiring any big graphic changes.

i will post an update on monday.

oh duh, I knew about the big and small maps

Oh well Hurrah!! I cannot wait to play it (why do people say that? obviously I'm going to have to wait )

Just my two cents about the gameplay – I think having too small a multiplier is many times better than one that's too large. Better to reduce luck only a little bit than to make a map that is unplayable.

I LOVE YOU, DIM!


and to sanosuke people tend to lie a lot

InkL0sed wrote:Just my two cents about the gameplay – I think having too small a multiplier is many times better than one that's too large. Better to reduce luck only a little bit than to make a map that is unplayable.

i will solve the multiplier by playtesting the map one way or another. and if i can't manage to reach a satisfactory conclussion i will lower it to 5-10 instead of the current 20.

what i want to know is if there's any other problem besides the multiplier.

/crackwhip

Nope! None at all!! Back to work, mule!!!

/crackwhip


Hehe j/king DiM, but honestly I cannot think of anything...everyone else is much more knowledgeable than I about how the game would work, I think it's a fantastic concept and would love to play it...like you said, the only way I can think of to solve the issue of the multiplier is to actually play test the map!

InkL0sed wrote:Just my two cents about the gameplay – I think having too small a multiplier is many times better than one that's too large. Better to reduce luck only a little bit than to make a map that is unplayable.

Just wanna say, no pun intended. I suspect I did that subconsciously.

DiM wrote:so are there any other concerns regarding the gameplay except for the actual multiplier?

can i go ahead and do the small map?

No my only concern is the multiplier itself.

BTW I've thought of a way that you might test it:

play as normal, but use an oline calculator for the attacking odds - whenever the odds are 90% or more (you could make this as low as 75% if you wished), then the attacker automatically wins with the average number of surviving armies. Is that workable to be able to test with your friends?

I love this idea so very very much.

As I was reading your introduction about the dice I was thinking "He's going to introduce massive armies" and sure enough you did, so yay for you thinking like me (Or me thinking like you).

I can't wait to play this, but I have one question, it's probably answered already and I missed it, but here goes: How do you attack the Mall or the CC Manor?

Itrade wrote:I love this idea so very very much.

As I was reading your introduction about the dice I was thinking "He's going to introduce massive armies" and sure enough you did, so yay for you thinking like me (Or me thinking like you).

I can't wait to play this, but I have one question, it's probably answered already and I missed it, but here goes: How do you attack the Mall or the CC Manor?

Via hte subway stations, all sunways can attack each other

gimil wrote:

Itrade wrote:I love this idea so very very much.

As I was reading your introduction about the dice I was thinking "He's going to introduce massive armies" and sure enough you did, so yay for you thinking like me (Or me thinking like you).

I can't wait to play this, but I have one question, it's probably answered already and I missed it, but here goes: How do you attack the Mall or the CC Manor?

Via hte subway stations, all sunways can attack each other

Hehe I had this question too, but never posted it because just as I was about to post the question, I finally saw the linkage on the map...

If you look on the map at CC Manor, the little tv boxes with an S inside of them (where the CC Manor connects to mall in N1 and N2) those little tv boxes are the subway hook-ups and can attack any other subway hook-up...so holding CC Manor and Mall together wins the game because there's just so many ways to get there. ^_^

BENJIKAT IS DEAD wrote:

DiM wrote:so are there any other concerns regarding the gameplay except for the actual multiplier?

can i go ahead and do the small map?

No my only concern is the multiplier itself.

BTW I've thought of a way that you might test it:

play as normal, but use an oline calculator for the attacking odds - whenever the odds are 90% or more (you could make this as low as 75% if you wished), then the attacker automatically wins with the average number of surviving armies. Is that workable to be able to test with your friends?

that's what i'm gonna try and do. use an online dice simulator and roll that each time. i just haven't had time to gather my friends for a few games. also i can't promise anything as i don't know exactly how many games i need before i get this right. first i'm gonna start with the 20 multiplier and then go down to 10 or lower. problem is i'll need at least 5 games on each setting plus some games for accommodation with the idea of big troops because most people think build when they see big troops.

gimil wrote:

Itrade wrote:I love this idea so very very much.

As I was reading your introduction about the dice I was thinking "He's going to introduce massive armies" and sure enough you did, so yay for you thinking like me (Or me thinking like you).

I can't wait to play this, but I have one question, it's probably answered already and I missed it, but here goes: How do you attack the Mall or the CC Manor?

Via hte subway stations, all sunways can attack each other

not just the subways but also the crossroads.

hmm i cant read all this cause theres too many pages =p lol but i have a concern to voice, just need some clarification on this-

wont escalating (or even flat rate) games be completely whack? a 4 card cash in will be meaningless to the outcome of the game, when people have x times the number of armies that theyd normally have. It really makes this map a little bit 1 dimensional. Obviously, escalating cards would start to matter at some point... but what about flat rate? Map is still an interesting idea, but the flat rate specialists and probably most of the escalating specialists wont be playing here too often

still an interesting idea


EDIT:plus i think the whole "luck" thing is just part of the game... if luck was so vital, then why is it possible for some people to play 5 8 player games and win 3 or 4 of them? Sure luck has some say in it, but if not for that luck the bad players would never have a chance (lol, kind of funny, but also kind of true) There's been games when i cant win any rolls for the first three or four turns, but i still win the game. Why? because by the END of the game things USUALLY even out-bad dice are, more often than not, a lame excuse-losing a 6 on 3 your first turn will NOT cost you the game unless you dont know what youre doing (1 v 1 being a possible exception) i dont know-maybe im just hating