Conquer Club

[bigimg]http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r76/ron_parodi/North%20America/NorthAmerica01.jpg[/bigimg]

Hi guys, I want you all to know that I'm reading and taking to heart everything that has been written so far. But I'll be away from my computer for the holiday weekend, and I wanted to get this moved into drafts. Some things are still works in progress - like the awful walls between US-Canada and US-Mexico. I'll work on that, as well as the legend.

Happy 4th everyone! Yeah America, down with the British!

Not to be the naysayer, but I'm not sure that the map really needs a full-blown WM-Canada-style revamp like this, especially 'cause it is a bit to reminiscent of said Canada revamp. You could keep the full layout pretty much the same, while retouching borders and impassables and terit textures and what not... The thing with NA is it's not nearly the visual atrocity that previous revamp candidates were, so I think a lighter touch could work.

I saw no problem in the connections at all, and it is an awesome map, one of my favorites, call me old school, but I luv it the way it is and the colors, all of it, near perfection of work if you ask me

I have to disagree with [player]Incandenza[/player] and [player]Blitzaholic[/player]. The existing NA map has distortions, particularly in the north, which do not correspond to any map projection I have ever seen, do not seem necessary for fitting the map on the screen, and frankly just irk me. Also, the impassable waterways look weird to me and leave me cold. As far as being too reminiscent of the Canada revamp, that's not a bad thing to me, since I really like the look of the current Canada map, and what I can find of the old map was not that attractive (although apparently undistorted).

hm... too much like Canada? I can see that, though it wasn't my intention. Dublin Doogey had suggested the current direction in our PMs...

feedback for the map seems good. a lot of it was what i've been thinking since starting a game on it the other day. a lot of circles need to be moved and there're definitely several areas that can be more clear.

i'm assuming it's still here but i liked the bright look of the africa map, maybe for colors we could go in that direction. i dunno how far the graphic redesign was going to go but i think it could be good to redraw the map over a satellite image, maybe something like the google map terrain option? it doesn't really have good proportions but yeah.

So, satellite image, with more traditional CC colors. As you all know, I'm more into making maps that have a vintage feel to them, so trying to make a satellite image map has been a bit outside of my comfort zone. I personally think this looks pretty good for a first draft of something I've never done before, but where I'm having trouble is reconciling the photo-realistic elements like the oceans and clouds with the region colors, borders, and other elements necessary for a CC map. Recreating a photo is easy, and making a CC is no problem, but putting the two together is proving a challenge.

As I write this, I'm having a thought. What about keeping this shape, but making it into a desk globe?




Why does every photo of a globe show Africa??

as for the legend i think it would benefit from simply reducing the opacity of the shadow and maybe a slight guassian blur


EDIT: just for the record i too prefer the older version, maybe a poll?

Incandenza wrote:Not to be the naysayer, but I'm not sure that the map really needs a full-blown WM-Canada-style revamp like this, especially 'cause it is a bit to reminiscent of said Canada revamp. You could keep the full layout pretty much the same, while retouching borders and impassables and terit textures and what not... The thing with NA is it's not nearly the visual atrocity that previous revamp candidates were, so I think a lighter touch could work.

It seems the train has already left the station and there's a lot of support for the full revamp, but I just wanted to associate myself with the above line of thinking. I like the North America map quite a bit as it already is and think it could do with just a few tweaks.

But, of course, it seems that I'm in the minority regarding this fact, so I guess you could just consider this post a friendly dissent.

oaktown wrote:Why does every photo of a globe show Africa??

Probably because it also shows Europe and Western Asia, that is the Old World plus there is more land surface north to south. I like the globe idea, the satellite image route seems too... eh. I'm not liking the curved bonus legend either, it makes my eyes strain when I try and read it. Otherwise though, you are looking pretty good! The Mexico border shouldn't be too hard, a fence with barbed wire will make a good impassible, but between the USA and Canada.... that's a tougher nut.

Interesting that for 48 hours everybody said "Redo! Redo!" - but now that I've posted a draft folks want to keep the old map. I think that suggests that perhaps I went too far with it, and that the map should retain more of the old look. I'm sick of taking flack from people about the work we do, so the last thing I want to do is create a map that will piss anybody off. I'll rethink this whole thing next week.

RedBaron0 wrote:The Mexico border shouldn't be too hard, a fence with barbed wire will make a good impassible, but between the USA and Canada.... that's a tougher nut.

Trouble is the old North America map shows a river running along the US/Canada border from Minnesota to Montana - such a river doesn't make exist. Anyway, in the post 9/11 world I think that a border fence with Canada isn't entirely out of the realm of possibility. Under W. it would not have surprised me if they'd built a fence to keep us Californians in here where we belong.

oaktown wrote:Interesting that for 48 hours everybody said "Redo! Redo!" - but now that I've posted a draft folks want to keep the old map. I think that suggests that perhaps I went too far with it, and that the map should retain more of the old look. I'm sick of taking flack from people about the work we do, so the last thing I want to do is create a map that will piss anybody off. I'll rethink this whole thing next week.

RedBaron0 wrote:The Mexico border shouldn't be too hard, a fence with barbed wire will make a good impassible, but between the USA and Canada.... that's a tougher nut.

Trouble is the old North America map shows a river running along the US/Canada border from Minnesota to Montana - such a river doesn't make exist. Anyway, in the post 9/11 world I think that a border fence with Canada isn't entirely out of the realm of possibility. Under W. it would not have surprised me if they'd built a fence to keep us Californians in here where we belong.

trees.

trees are a bitch to get through!

SultanOfSurreal wrote:trees.

trees are a bitch to get through!

Along the Manitoba border?



I don't think this tree is stopping any army. Well, maybe the Canadian one.

But seriously, I hope you all had a lovely Canada Day... nice that somebody gave Canada a whole day.

well, we put a big maple leaf flag in our window!

as requested, moved into the drafting room.

ian.

oaktown wrote:Interesting that for 48 hours everybody said "Redo! Redo!" - but now that I've posted a draft folks want to keep the old map. I think that suggests that perhaps I went too far with it, and that the map should retain more of the old look. I'm sick of taking flack from people about the work we do, so the last thing I want to do is create a map that will piss anybody off. I'll rethink this whole thing next week.

Well, in all fairness, back on page one you did say this:

oaktown wrote:My approach to this is that if something isn't broken I shouldn't mess with it. The more that we can retain from the original to maintain the feel of the map the better.

And IMHO the wide-out satellite angle is a pretty radical departure in aesthetic from the original. I understand that this is a concept that you and DD worked out, and I respect his input as the original mapmaker, and if that's the way he wants to go with this, then godspeed... I just think it would take a lot less work and engender a lot less upheaval if the graphics were simply refreshed rather than completely overhauled.

Incandenza wrote:IMHO the wide-out satellite angle is a pretty radical departure in aesthetic from the original. I understand that this is a concept that you and DD worked out, and I respect his input as the original mapmaker, and if that's the way he wants to go with this, then godspeed... I just think it would take a lot less work and engender a lot less upheaval if the graphics were simply refreshed rather than completely overhauled.

Yep, I'll scale it back... I tried to go satellite post-modern and I let it get away from me.

I think about territory colors and fonts we're fine, legend shall have an improvement so it has not a "Word Art" look, but that's a small concern. My major concern goes to impassables... What are those grey and black divisions? And mountains should be more visible and perceptible.

Keep up with the good work!

Cheers!

oaktown wrote:Interesting that for 48 hours everybody said "Redo! Redo!" - but now that I've posted a draft folks want to keep the old map. I think that suggests that perhaps I went too far with it, and that the map should retain more of the old look. I'm sick of taking flack from people about the work we do, so the last thing I want to do is create a map that will piss anybody off. I'll rethink this whole thing next week.

Just to clarify, I would have said what I said before you did your redo if I had seen the thread then. But my first click on this thread was already after you did your work.

To be perfectly frank, I really like your design. If I wasn't already used to the original map and this was a totally new map, I'd be very pleased with it. In short, I think you put together a great map.

I just happen to be really fond of the feel that the current North America map has. Solely a personal opinion (that I guess a few people share). But if the majority--and especially the original mapmaker--wants a full revamp, again, just consider this a friendly dissent.

Peter Gibbons wrote:To be perfectly frank, I really like your design. If I wasn't already used to the original map and this was a totally new map, I'd be very pleased with it. In short, I think you put together a great map.

I just happen to be really fond of the feel that the current North America map has. Solely a personal opinion (that I guess a few people share). But if the majority--and especially the original mapmaker--wants a full revamp, again, just consider this a friendly dissent.

I follow you Peter. It's good to hear some voices of dissent. When some of the past unvamps have come out it has started an absolutely shit-storm, and I don't want to be the cause of the next one!

You know, it's a darn shame that everyone has to look at the same graphics. The ability to choose different versions of a map which shared identical gameplay would forestall the "shitstorms", I would think, by allowing some people to keep their favourites while others got something more pleasing to their eyes. It would be easy to keep both maps on CC right now, but they would count as separate maps in medal considerations and whatnot. Were it not for the coordinates of the troop circles, I don't think there would be anything in the XML that would care what graphic was showing.

Actually, I REALLY liked the satellite view for the map. Maybe that's not appropriate for this map, but I REALLY want to see it on a map in the future

Echospree wrote:Actually, I REALLY liked the satellite view for the map. Maybe that's not appropriate for this map, but I REALLY want to see it on a map in the future

canada

i personally don't think there is anything wrong with the current map. nothing at all. sometimes, the more simplistic maps are beautiful in their simplicity. not everything needs to be updated or changed or "made better". i like the map as it is, and have never had any problems with the gameplay. that is just my opinion, and i appreciate oak's effort, and he knows i am his boy!!-0

Aaaaand right about now is where I notice the globe in the Canada map. Whatever, I still want to see it more often.

oaktown wrote:As I write this, I'm having a thought. What about keeping this shape, but making it into a desk globe?

This is a wonderfully novel (for CC) way to display a map, and should be kept in mind, if not for this map, for some other one, though it does tend to lend itself to either a real continent (N. America, S. America, Africa [obviously from your sample pics], ...) or a hemisphere map (the Americas, the Eastern Hemisphere, the Pacific Ocean/Ring of Fire, ...). I think most of these don't need a new map just now.

oaktown wrote:

RedBaron0 wrote:The Mexico border shouldn't be too hard, a fence with barbed wire will make a good impassible, but between the USA and Canada.... that's a tougher nut.

Trouble is the old North America map shows a river running along the US/Canada border from Minnesota to Montana - such a river doesn't make exist. Anyway, in the post 9/11 world I think that a border fence with Canada isn't entirely out of the realm of possibility. Under W. it would not have surprised me if they'd built a fence to keep us Californians in here where we belong.

The fence along the Canadian border would probably work too, and would be easiest to do. You could put in the Badlands as a kind of desert impassible, or even for giggles put Mt. Rushmore up there.

hurry up with the new draft, and this time control yourself...