obama mccain debate

[DaGip]

McCain says with an unnerving smirk and blinky blink blink girly eyes,"AhkmAninjod..."

Obama says with perfect pronunciation,"Ahmadinejad..."

[DaGip]

Obama,"McCain wouldn't even speak with Spain..."

McCain in response,"PPppFuuuuh!"...Pure fucking genius!

[DaGip]

Obama was a little too nice during the debate...very good manners. He needs to dirty up a bit. McCain was able to bully Barrack around a few times, especially on the talking with Our Enemies thingy.

McCain would not look at Obama, he looked real stiff while Obama looked loose and cool.

Obama needed to take more control, even forcing himself away from the moderation from time to time...and when you got 2 minutes to debate...use 2 and a half minutes every once in a while! Geesh!

I think Obama sounded the more intellectual and articulate, but McCain did come across more tough...I just think McCain's body language is killing him! (Help, Sarah! HELP!)

[DaGip]

Mcain: "Never TORTURE a prisoner again..."

So we have been torturing prisoners, huh?

[Curmudgeonx]

Mcain: "Never TORTURE a prisoner again..."

So we have been torturing prisoners, huh?

Well McCain does take that kind of stuff personally since he was poked with a stick by the VC for three years . . .

[Nobunaga]

... The Dems (Dodd, et al..) want the bail out, so did Bush. The reason it didn't go through was that McCain and much more conservative types were wanting to offer loans, not free money.

... Just to be clear.

... McCain had a much better command of "the facts" during the debate but Obama did amazingly well considering foreign affairs are his Achilles heel.

... I once heard it said, "Obama couldn't order a Happy Meal without a teleprompter", but he did well enough without one tonight.

...

[black elk speaks]

How in the f*ck am I supposed to afford Health Care with a Five Hundred Dollar fucking Tax Credit! McCain = Loser

Wasn't that a 5000 tax credit?

[black elk speaks]

... The Dems (Dodd, et al..) want the bail out, so did Bush. The reason it didn't go through was that McCain and much more conservative types were wanting to offer loans, not free money.

... Just to be clear.

... McCain had a much better command of "the facts" during the debate but Obama did amazingly well considering foreign affairs are his Achilles heel.

... I once heard it said, "Obama couldn't order a Happy Meal without a teleprompter", but he did well enough without one tonight.

...

Do you think? I thought he looked rather junior on a lot of things, like Pakistan and foreign policy with regards to Iran.

I came way from the debate feeling like Obama just doesn't understand a lot of things about economy and foreign affairs.

[DaGip]

How in the f*ck am I supposed to afford Health Care with a Five Hundred Dollar fucking Tax Credit! McCain = Loser

Wasn't that a 5000 tax credit?

I could have misheard as I was listening to the TV while I was on the computer. I thought McCain said five hundred, but then I heard Obama say five thousand.

Which only goes to prove that Obama is the better speaker out of the two...he doesn't mumble and stammer and sigh all the time like McCain.

[TheProwler]

McCain would not look at Obama, he looked real stiff while Obama looked loose and cool.

My read on McCain is that he is the type of guy that will speak strongly and meaningfully, but he is not going to look straight into another person's eyes very often. But I don't take this as a weakness. He saves those moments. When he does look into someone's eyes, they'll know he is dead serious.

Not a great salesman. But a serious businessman.

You can see the difference in their attitudes when they talked about meeting with other countries' leaders. Obama doesn't understand the prestige of the position and the art of posturing. Obama just wants to sit down and have a chat with his enemies...like he'll sort them out with his direct eye contact and bright white smile. McCain says "You sit down with my subordinate. When, and if, you get your shit together, then you will get a chance to sit down with the head honcho. Not before."

I agree with BES's view on Obama's performance. He's not ready. McCain cleaned the floor with him.

[Nobunaga]

... What I meant was, Obama handled himself well. Have you ever heard him just drop off into a mumbling mess of "Uh... uh... uh... uh...". I was expecting that tonight but instead he spoke clearly and without hesitation.

... I am not speaking to the content of his points. As I said before, McCain has more experience by far (decades vs none) and so one should not expect much from the junior senator.

...

[black elk speaks]

McCain would not look at Obama, he looked real stiff while Obama looked loose and cool.

My read on McCain is that he is the type of guy that will speak strongly and meaningfully, but he is not going to look straight into another person's eyes very often. But I don't take this as a weakness. He saves those moments. When he does look into someone's eyes, they'll know he is dead serious.

Not a great salesman. But a serious businessman.

You can see the difference in their attitudes when they talked about meeting with other countries' leaders. Obama doesn't understand the prestige of the position and the art of posturing. Obama just wants to sit down and have a chat with his enemies...like he'll sort them out with his direct eye contact and bright white smile. McCain says "You sit down with my subordinate. When, and if, you get your shit together, then you will get a chance to sit down with the head honcho. Not before."

I agree with BES's view on Obama's performance. He's not ready. McCain cleaned the floor with him.

Well, I was actually hoping that someone was going to pick up on McCain's mantra "what Senator Obama doesn't understand is..."

I think I heard McCain say that like 50 times. More often than not, Obama conceded. I have to wonder if Obama really no longer wants the presidency. I would sure be thinking real hard about wanting to step into that mess. But, I do agree with Prowler, Obama is not ready, and that is how he came across tonight, in my opinion.

[F1fth]

McCain would not look at Obama, he looked real stiff while Obama looked loose and cool.

My read on McCain is that he is the type of guy that will speak strongly and meaningfully, but he is not going to look straight into another person's eyes very often. But I don't take this as a weakness. He saves those moments. When he does look into someone's eyes, they'll know he is dead serious.

Not a great salesman. But a serious businessman.

You can see the difference in their attitudes when they talked about meeting with other countries' leaders. Obama doesn't understand the prestige of the position and the art of posturing. Obama just wants to sit down and have a chat with his enemies...like he'll sort them out with his direct eye contact and bright white smile. McCain says "You sit down with my subordinate. When, and if, you get your shit together, then you will get a chance to sit down with the head honcho. Not before."

I agree with BES's view on Obama's performance. He's not ready. McCain cleaned the floor with him.

Well, I was actually hoping that someone was going to pick up on McCain's mantra "what Senator Obama doesn't understand is..."

I think I heard McCain say that like 50 times. More often than not, Obama conceded. I have to wonder if Obama really no longer wants the presidency. I would sure be thinking real hard about wanting to step into that mess. But, I do agree with Prowler, Obama is not ready, and that is how he came across tonight, in my opinion.

Well, I felt Obama gave McCain a thrashing, but people like us probably weren't going to change our mind because of this debate anyway.

And Prowler, about the world leader thing, what Obama said exactly was "we should speak with Iran without preconditions." Let me repeat: "we should speak with Iran without preconditions." One more time: "we should speak with Iran without preconditions"!!! Never once did he mention direct presidential discussion, like McCain tried to assert he did. The point Obama was trying to make is that if you expect your opponents to agree to your terms before you even send someone to talk with them, then guess what? There's not gonna be any negotiations. He repeated over and over again (as McCain was interrupting him): "of course there are going to be preparations, and yes there will be lower-level discussions."

[got tonkaed]

Having only heard the debate ( i couldnt find a video as quick as i could find the npr link) i thought mccain probably ended up doing a little bit more for himself over the course of the debate. I did think obama did a pretty good job with regard to a lot of foreign policy issues, and did a better job trying to posit himself as the different of the two candidates. Where i thought he might have come up a little bit short was often in his inability in my view at least to bring up some of the weaker aspects of mccains points. While i thought he approached this when he talked about the 18 billion dollars of earmarks compared to mccains tax cut plan, i dont think he hit the point home enough. I also think he needed to show he was going to do more with cutting loopholes than mccain, and mccain beat him to the punch with his familiar line item veto jab.

I thought mccain did a good job in winning the right parts of the debate. The average american voter isnt going to care if it seems like you are forcing your opponent into a corner or making statements like my opponent doesnt understand this or that, in fact a lot of people eat that stuff up. So while some on the left are going to accuse mccain of using similar attack tactics as previous elections, its probably going to fall on deaf ears. He really ended up recovering i thought near the end of the debate, when i thought a lot of the economic issues, he sounded a little less strong on. He often was able to get away with a few remarks that put obama into a corner, while obama was unable to question whether his more ideological approach was the only solution. I thought he was going to get there when he started to talk about Russia, but it never materialized and as a result i think Mccain ended up sounding (although a little out of touch in my opinion, a little to reverent about having to do some ugly action) like he was going to be a more solid commander in chief.

I dont think any of this is that surprising, given the long history of foreign policy credentials mccain has (for better or worse) and the fact that the democratic nominee is obama and not biden. It will be interesting to see if he can build off of the short term bump i would assume he is likely to recieve going into debates where i think obama may have more of an edge.

[DaGip]

Regardless, I would say they BOTH blew donkey nuts! McCain sounded like a loser in the beginning but picked up a little later...AntiLuns enjoys the Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Bomb Iran song! It will bring the kingdom of the AntiLuns to full fruition! Go NEOCONS! GO!!!!

[oVo]

I thought the Kissinger references were interesting... McCain bombed North Vietnam, was shot down and spent time as a POW as part of a failing Nixon/Kissinger foreign policy. McCain implyed, 'I'll stay the course, as I have since 1983 as a Senator... I've been to all these places and know how things work. Obama probably should have pointed out stronger that doing things as they've always been done isn't change and it hasn't worked. It just might take a fresh approach, which may involve actually having a dialogue with adversaries to develop a deeper understanding of situations and actually solve some of these problems.

McCain's body language was peculiar, never looking at Obama even when he addressed him directly with remarks... occassionally blinking wildly as he responded while looking at the moderator and rarely into the camera. I think of his experience and wonder what exactly he has failed to accomplish as a Senator that he thinks he can do as President. He claimed repeatedly towards the end that "he will take care of veterans", kind of a secondary mantra... but where has he been in recent years when they needed him? I'm a bit tired of the "exit Iraq with honor bs" and the "victory or bust" mentality. In my eye the formal war ended long ago and it's the occupation and winning the peace part that has been problematic... and truely its' difficulty has been no surprise. McCain wants credit for The Surge but ignores the false pretenses of the invasion and the poor planning of the occupation. Can he have it both ways?

The topic of this debate was supposed to be McCain's strongest advantage and I did not think Obama looked out of touch on the business of foreign affairs. McCain kept implying that Obama doesn't understand, but more than once seemed to be so focused on the point that he did not even hear what Obama had just said...

I also find it curious that McCain says "I have the experience and leadership abilities to get it done" as a Washington insider of 26 years, but wants to be known as the maverick who will shake things up... isn't this a contradiction? and how is this conservative going to change his spots now?

I think both candidates scored points in this debate, but neither knocked the ball out of the park.

[oVo]

After the debate I get these emails from both campaigns...

from John McCain, Subject: Back to Washington

My Friends,
Tonight, Senator Obama and I participated in the first debate of the general election. It was a spirited debate and I believe the difference between our visions for America were made very clear.

In a few hours, I will return to Washington to resume negotiations with the Administration and Congressional leaders from both parties to forge a bipartisan solution to our economic crisis. I am optimistic we will come to a final agreement soon. All voices must be represented in the final agreement, especially those of taxpayers and homeowners.

We cannot be interested in who would get credit finding a solution and who would be blamed if an agreement cannot be reached. We must put our country first to solve this economic crisis. Because in the end, that's what leaders do in times of crisis.

Our next president and Congress will face challenging times that require selfless leadership. They must find solutions to issues like the economy, national security, and energy independence. I'm ready to work with Governor Palin and our Congressional allies to address the nation's most pressing challenges. Make no mistake, we are ready to lead and the Obama-Biden Democrats are not.

But, the truth is that we won't win without your support. We're less than 40 days away from Election Day and polls in races across the country are extremely close. In the final weeks of this campaign, we will need to fund crucial get-out-the-vote and grassroots activities that will assist our entire ticket, from the top to the bottom to secure victory on Election Day. I'm asking you to help us by making a contribution right now to McCain-Palin Victory 2008.

Your support is always deeply appreciated and I thank you for your generosity.

Sincerely, John McCain

P.S. There are major differences between our shared priorities for our nation and those of the Obama-Biden Democrats. Tonight's debate made this point very clear. Our entire ticket will always put your needs above our own. And that's why it is so important for you to get involved today. Please join our team for victory on Election Day. Thank you.

from Barak Obama, Subject: From the debate

oVo--

I just finished my first debate with John McCain.

Millions of Americans finally got a chance to see us take on the fundamental choice in this election
-- the change we need or more of the same.

I will provide tax cuts for the middle class, affordable health care, and a new energy economy that creates millions of jobs. John McCain wants to keep giving huge tax cuts to corporations, and he offered no solutions for the challenges Americans are facing in their daily lives.

I will end the war in Iraq responsibly, focus on defeating al Qaeda and the Taliban, and restore America's standing in the world after eight years of disastrous policies. John McCain wants an unending commitment in Iraq and fails to recognize the resurgent threat in Afghanistan.

Let's be clear: John McCain is offering nothing but more of the same failed Bush policies at home and abroad that he has supported more than 90% of the time in the Senate.

Americans need change now, and I need your help to get the word out about this movement.

In the coming days, it's going to be up to you to organize locally and reach the voters that are going to decide this election.

Now's the time to make your voice heard.

Please make a donation of $5 or more right now to support this campaign for change:

https://donate.barackobama.com/thedebate

Thank you for all that you're doing,

Barack

[black elk speaks]

So while some on the left are going to accuse mccain of using similar attack tactics as previous elections, its probably going to fall on deaf ears.

I think that you are suggesting that I had no appreciation of McCains references here. I thought that it was a solid tactic on McCain's part to drive home that Obama doesn't understand. When Obama suggests that there need not be preconditions when talking to illegitimate countries, he forces people to assume that he means leadership level talks by injecting the terms "without preconditions." I think that Obama tried to spin his way out of that one by playing the "you-misunderstood-me,-I-meant-that-my-underlings-should-talk-to-Iran,-not-me." card. I thought that was a failure for Obama. I have to trust McCain with his foreign affairs experience that we do not legitimize rouge nations by having higher level talks with them.

Mind your energy proposals too. Obama was also pretty clear saying that not all of his energy plan will come to fruition. Given the uncertainty of the financial markets now, there is a lot of potential for spending to be cut in a lot of sectors.

[Spuzzell]

Winston Churchill once said "jaw-jaw is better than war-war."

And he was right, the fat cigar smoking alcoholic.

Rouge nations (which I like as a term, totally works for socialist dictatorships) couldn't give a stuff whether or not they are legitimised, they're rogue, that's the whole point.

There's never any downside in talking, and there's no way I'd want a leader who refused to countenance every possible avenue for diplomacy as an alternative to war. That's just insular and naive.

[Snorri1234]

Winston Churchill once said "jaw-jaw is better than war-war."

And he was right, the fat cigar smoking alcoholic.

Rouge nations (which I like as a term, totally works for socialist dictatorships) couldn't give a stuff whether or not they are legitimised, they're rogue, that's the whole point.

There's never any downside in talking, and there's no way I'd want a leader who refused to countenance every possible avenue for diplomacy as an alternative to war. That's just insular and naive.

Word.

Besides, Iran is not a rogue-nation. It's an Islamic Republic. They vote for their president and shit like that. I thought democracy was so important to the US?

[black elk speaks]

Winston Churchill once said "jaw-jaw is better than war-war."

And he was right, the fat cigar smoking alcoholic.

Rouge nations (which I like as a term, totally works for socialist dictatorships) couldn't give a stuff whether or not they are legitimised, they're rogue, that's the whole point.

There's never any downside in talking, and there's no way I'd want a leader who refused to countenance every possible avenue for diplomacy as an alternative to war. That's just insular and naive.

You, like Obama, obviously do not understand the silliness that is the global arena.

[InkL0sed]

Ah yes, because you, on the other hand, understand it perfectly well.

[black elk speaks]

Ah yes, because you, on the other hand, understand it perfectly well.

I understand it well enough to leave it to those who have been doing it for more than 20 years.

[TheProwler]

And Prowler, about the world leader thing, what Obama said exactly was "we should speak with Iran without preconditions." Let me repeat: "we should speak with Iran without preconditions." One more time: "we should speak with Iran without preconditions"!!! Never once did he mention direct presidential discussion, like McCain tried to assert he did. The point Obama was trying to make is that if you expect your opponents to agree to your terms before you even send someone to talk with them, then guess what? There's not gonna be any negotiations. He repeated over and over again (as McCain was interrupting him): "of course there are going to be preparations, and yes there will be lower-level discussions."

He had said previously that he, as President, would meet face-to-face with them. That is why he never objected to what McCain asserted.

McCain takes the stance that there would be lower-level meetings. Then, based on those discussions, there *might* be preparations made to have a meeting with the President. Then, based on those discussions, there may or may not be a meeting with the President. He is smart. He is not going to go into a meeting without knowing what is going to be said by the other side. It is called negotiations. It is called posturing. It is knowing that you are the leader of the big country and they are the little country that has to work hard to earn the chance to negotiate with you.

Obama made it clear that he would eventually meet face-to-face himself. That is stupid. It means all the screening work done beforehand cannot be trusted. Iran leaders would just be thinking "Fine, fine, lets get through this so we can talk to The Man." What McCain was saying about sitting down with them and having them say "We are going to wipe out Israel." is that if you let them know right away that you will meet with them, as Obama had previously stated he would do, then you get them thinking about that meeting from day 1. And they might then plan on unleashing a powerful statement like that. By posturing and making them work for a meeting, you can get a lot of agreement before having the BIG meeting. You dangle the carrot. You don't let them know that they will eventually get the carrot.

Even if McCain knows in his mind that he will eventually, definitely meet with another World Leader, he might have to say publicly that he might not. It is called posturing.

McCain handles himself like a CEO.

Obama handles himself like a salesman working on commission.

Regardless, with all your repeating "we should speak with Iran without preconditions.", you missed that Obama had spoke on the subject before the debate. When a debate starts, do you think what a participant said within the last few months is not relevant? Heck, Obama was bringing up things that McCain said and did when Obama was still in diapers.

[black elk speaks]

Heck, Obama was bringing up things that McCain said and did when Obama was still in diapers.

Sig worthy!