Conquer Club

Problem with this system is howthere is a clear dividing line between pass and fail.

vtmarik wrote:American Public Schools encourage kids to do the minimum to get by, and teaches them that it's all they need to do.

It's damaging. The reason schools encourage this is that all kids are required to attend school until they turn 16. They call it "every child has a right to an education" but since when is not exercising a right something that a cop can bust you for?

Plato didn't agree with compulsory education, and it does nothing but engender apathy and distrust among the under-18 set.

Perhaps we agree on more than I thought!

Anyway, when I was a student teacher (7th grade World History) I had 2 students who, despite my best efforts, refused to do a majority of the work assigned, participate in classroom discussions, or complete the castle project at the end of the year. I failed both of them and was called into the principal's office. I was told directly by the principal, the vice-principal, and my master teacher to pass them with a D. When I refused I was told that I could kiss my chances of being hired on within the district away. "After all, we don't want to be harassed by the parents", was one comment. Someone else said, "Do you really want to be mired down in paperwork having to document every single instance of non-participation. You'll be killed with all the paperwork it will take to verify it all".

I didn't pass the 2 students and sure enough the parents raised hell. I think that the school system just wants to run these kids through the mill and hand them off to someone else as their problem. They also do whatever it takes to avoid confrontation with vocal parents. (I'm not saying parents shouldn't take an interest in school). I was asked to not apply for any positions the next year so I went to teach high school outside at another district. I saw other teachers that year who were also given "the talk". Some caved in & some didn't. The teachers who don't give in and actually fail students undeserving of a passing grade are seen as trouble-makers who won't conform to the system...not a "team player".

Norse, would you care to enlighten us poor uneducated CCers as to where you've got these ideas about our education system from?

I've stated my experience, why not state yours (as so far we have an uncle who is an engineer... not exactly first hand).

I enjoyed your response to the poster who stated his grandparents had enjoyed the benefits of the three R's in their youth... oh wait, there hasn't been one yet! I can also say that my grandparents, both headteachers, used the term as a concept when they began their careers after the war. Were we illiterate then?

Perhaps close the Daily Mail or the Telegraph once in a while and listen to people who have real experience of our real education system.

Or just stfu... Up to you really

luns101 wrote:

vtmarik wrote:American Public Schools encourage kids to do the minimum to get by, and teaches them that it's all they need to do.

It's damaging. The reason schools encourage this is that all kids are required to attend school until they turn 16. They call it "every child has a right to an education" but since when is not exercising a right something that a cop can bust you for?

Plato didn't agree with compulsory education, and it does nothing but engender apathy and distrust among the under-18 set.

Perhaps we agree on more than I thought!

Anyway, when I was a student teacher (7th grade World History) I had 2 students who, despite my best efforts, refused to do a majority of the work assigned, participate in classroom discussions, or complete the castle project at the end of the year. I failed both of them and was called into the principal's office. I was told directly by the principal, the vice-principal, and my master teacher to pass them with a D. When I refused I was told that I could kiss my chances of being hired on within the district away. "After all, we don't want to be harassed by the parents", was one comment. Someone else said, "Do you really want to be mired down in paperwork having to document every single instance of non-participation. You'll be killed with all the paperwork it will take to verify it all".

I didn't pass the 2 students and sure enough the parents raised hell. I think that the school system just wants to run these kids through the mill and hand them off to someone else as their problem. They also do whatever it takes to avoid confrontation with vocal parents. (I'm not saying parents shouldn't take an interest in school). I was asked to not apply for any positions the next year so I went to teach high school outside at another district. I saw other teachers that year who were also given "the talk". Some caved in & some didn't. The teachers who don't give in and actually fail students undeserving of a passing grade are seen as trouble-makers who won't conform to the system...not a "team player".

My gym teacher raised my 44% to a 50% because I came on the last day of class lol. Despite never doing any work I passed all my classes with 50%:)

cawck mongler wrote:

luns101 wrote:

vtmarik wrote:American Public Schools encourage kids to do the minimum to get by, and teaches them that it's all they need to do.

It's damaging. The reason schools encourage this is that all kids are required to attend school until they turn 16. They call it "every child has a right to an education" but since when is not exercising a right something that a cop can bust you for?

Plato didn't agree with compulsory education, and it does nothing but engender apathy and distrust among the under-18 set.

Perhaps we agree on more than I thought!

Anyway, when I was a student teacher (7th grade World History) I had 2 students who, despite my best efforts, refused to do a majority of the work assigned, participate in classroom discussions, or complete the castle project at the end of the year. I failed both of them and was called into the principal's office. I was told directly by the principal, the vice-principal, and my master teacher to pass them with a D. When I refused I was told that I could kiss my chances of being hired on within the district away. "After all, we don't want to be harassed by the parents", was one comment. Someone else said, "Do you really want to be mired down in paperwork having to document every single instance of non-participation. You'll be killed with all the paperwork it will take to verify it all".

I didn't pass the 2 students and sure enough the parents raised hell. I think that the school system just wants to run these kids through the mill and hand them off to someone else as their problem. They also do whatever it takes to avoid confrontation with vocal parents. (I'm not saying parents shouldn't take an interest in school). I was asked to not apply for any positions the next year so I went to teach high school outside at another district. I saw other teachers that year who were also given "the talk". Some caved in & some didn't. The teachers who don't give in and actually fail students undeserving of a passing grade are seen as trouble-makers who won't conform to the system...not a "team player".

My gym teacher raised my 44% to a 50% because I came on the last day of class lol. Despite never doing any work I passed all my classes with 50%:)

Probably curved the grade (I think that's it) for you. But, 50% is still an F, unless they set their standards much lower where you come from?

muy_thaiguy wrote:

cawck mongler wrote:

luns101 wrote:

vtmarik wrote:American Public Schools encourage kids to do the minimum to get by, and teaches them that it's all they need to do.

It's damaging. The reason schools encourage this is that all kids are required to attend school until they turn 16. They call it "every child has a right to an education" but since when is not exercising a right something that a cop can bust you for?

Plato didn't agree with compulsory education, and it does nothing but engender apathy and distrust among the under-18 set.

Perhaps we agree on more than I thought!

Anyway, when I was a student teacher (7th grade World History) I had 2 students who, despite my best efforts, refused to do a majority of the work assigned, participate in classroom discussions, or complete the castle project at the end of the year. I failed both of them and was called into the principal's office. I was told directly by the principal, the vice-principal, and my master teacher to pass them with a D. When I refused I was told that I could kiss my chances of being hired on within the district away. "After all, we don't want to be harassed by the parents", was one comment. Someone else said, "Do you really want to be mired down in paperwork having to document every single instance of non-participation. You'll be killed with all the paperwork it will take to verify it all".

I didn't pass the 2 students and sure enough the parents raised hell. I think that the school system just wants to run these kids through the mill and hand them off to someone else as their problem. They also do whatever it takes to avoid confrontation with vocal parents. (I'm not saying parents shouldn't take an interest in school). I was asked to not apply for any positions the next year so I went to teach high school outside at another district. I saw other teachers that year who were also given "the talk". Some caved in & some didn't. The teachers who don't give in and actually fail students undeserving of a passing grade are seen as trouble-makers who won't conform to the system...not a "team player".

My gym teacher raised my 44% to a 50% because I came on the last day of class lol. Despite never doing any work I passed all my classes with 50%:)

Probably curved the grade (I think that's it) for you. But, 50% is still an F, unless they set their standards much lower where you come from?

Unlike you, I do not go to the upper class private middle school of elitist fags. 50% is just fine for me.

And I literally do no work, I don't even go to class for 75% of the year. This year I'll have to though, that way I can maybe go to university or something.

cawck mongler wrote:

muy_thaiguy wrote:

cawck mongler wrote:

luns101 wrote:

vtmarik wrote:American Public Schools encourage kids to do the minimum to get by, and teaches them that it's all they need to do.

It's damaging. The reason schools encourage this is that all kids are required to attend school until they turn 16. They call it "every child has a right to an education" but since when is not exercising a right something that a cop can bust you for?

Plato didn't agree with compulsory education, and it does nothing but engender apathy and distrust among the under-18 set.

Perhaps we agree on more than I thought!

Anyway, when I was a student teacher (7th grade World History) I had 2 students who, despite my best efforts, refused to do a majority of the work assigned, participate in classroom discussions, or complete the castle project at the end of the year. I failed both of them and was called into the principal's office. I was told directly by the principal, the vice-principal, and my master teacher to pass them with a D. When I refused I was told that I could kiss my chances of being hired on within the district away. "After all, we don't want to be harassed by the parents", was one comment. Someone else said, "Do you really want to be mired down in paperwork having to document every single instance of non-participation. You'll be killed with all the paperwork it will take to verify it all".

I didn't pass the 2 students and sure enough the parents raised hell. I think that the school system just wants to run these kids through the mill and hand them off to someone else as their problem. They also do whatever it takes to avoid confrontation with vocal parents. (I'm not saying parents shouldn't take an interest in school). I was asked to not apply for any positions the next year so I went to teach high school outside at another district. I saw other teachers that year who were also given "the talk". Some caved in & some didn't. The teachers who don't give in and actually fail students undeserving of a passing grade are seen as trouble-makers who won't conform to the system...not a "team player".

My gym teacher raised my 44% to a 50% because I came on the last day of class lol. Despite never doing any work I passed all my classes with 50%:)

Probably curved the grade (I think that's it) for you. But, 50% is still an F, unless they set their standards much lower where you come from?

Unlike you, I do not go to the upper class private middle school of elitist fags. 50% is just fine for me.

And I literally do no work, I don't even go to class for 75% of the year. This year I'll have to though, that way I can maybe go to university or something.

Moron, I just graduated from a PUBLIC High School. The only private school I ever went to was a Catholic one, and it is not exactly top of the line. So shush you.

In america are there advanced schools? Such as selective high schools and Opportunity Class in year 5 and 6 in Australia?

Iliad wrote:In america are there advanced schools? Such as selective high schools and Opportunity Class in year 5 and 6 in Australia?

Yes. There are a few very good private schools, that are inaccessible to pretty much everyone, but there is yet hope!-- Every big city has multiple public (state) "magnet schools", mostly high schools (for ages 14-18), where children who have shown exceptional talent can apply to attend, still for free. Some magnet schools are just generalized, but some have specialties, like "for the Visual and Performing Arts" or "for Natural Sciences and Medicine."

To my understanding, according to the law, every public (state) school of every level in every town in the United States is required to have a special program for very bright children as well as a program for very slow children. The former, usually called GT or TAG (Gifted & Talented, or Talented and Gifted), tends to involve students being taken out of normal class once or twice a week to do particularly enriching activities, like learning French or finger painting. The latter, nearly always called Special Ed, tends to involve taking kids with dyslexia or dirty clothes out of class at math time to rooms with the vegetables and schizzoids.

btownmeggy wrote:

Iliad wrote:In america are there advanced schools? Such as selective high schools and Opportunity Class in year 5 and 6 in Australia?

Yes. There are a few very good private schools, that are inaccessible to pretty much everyone, but there is yet hope!-- Every big city has multiple public (state) "magnet schools", mostly high schools (for ages 14-18), where children who have shown exceptional talent can apply to attend, still for free. Some magnet schools are just generalized, but some have specialties, like "for the Visual and Performing Arts" or "for Natural Sciences and Medicine."

To my understanding, according to the law, every public (state) school of every level in every town in the United States is required to have a special program for very bright children as well as a program for very slow children. The former, usually called GT or TAG (Gifted & Talented, or Talented and Gifted), tends to involve students being taken out of normal class once or twice a week to do particularly enriching activities, like learning French or finger painting. The latter, nearly always called Special Ed, tends to involve taking kids with dyslexia or dirty clothes out of class at math time to rooms with the vegetables and schizzoids.

I was in gifted and talented at my college. Pointless crap. Dod loads of stuff which I've never used agagin and never helped. Would have been more ebenfitial to have gone to the lessons and learnt something.

Titanic wrote:I was in gifted and talented at my college. Pointless crap. Dod loads of stuff which I've never used agagin and never helped. Would have been more ebenfitial to have gone to the lessons and learnt something.

Yeh but its good on uni applications

I'm thinking about taking some college courses on chanukah.

2dimes wrote:I'm thinking about taking some college courses on chanukah.

you need a refresher on creative writing, mate, you've fallen off......

Guiscard wrote:

Titanic wrote:I was in gifted and talented at my college. Pointless crap. Dod loads of stuff which I've never used agagin and never helped. Would have been more ebenfitial to have gone to the lessons and learnt something.

Yeh but its good on uni applications

True, but it didn get me into LSE or Manchester. Gotta settle for a top 20 instead of a top 10..

btownmeggy wrote:People in this forum love to complain about THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM. I've never heard so much belly-aching on this subject. I'm not saying that it doesn't have problems, but I wonder why you all think it's so horrible. Sure, I received a poor education in American public schools, but I know quite a few people who received good educations in them, too.

Please tell me, do you find the EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM of your country good or poor, and WHY?

The American education system remains flawed as to a certain extent segregation still exists, with a huge gap between the rich and the poor. Although, in the supreme court case Brown vs Board of Education of 1954 segregation was determined illegal (thanks to Thurgood Marshall) a section of it stated that schools should be desegregated "with all deliberate speed". This resulted in the desegregation process being very slow. The poor schools in poor areas stuck the way they are and because of the fact that they often receive no funding from southern state legislatures it results in no improvements being made and therefore the poor in America can not receive a proper education and aren't even given the chance, which screws them up for later life.

Titanic wrote:

Guiscard wrote:

Titanic wrote:I was in gifted and talented at my college. Pointless crap. Dod loads of stuff which I've never used agagin and never helped. Would have been more ebenfitial to have gone to the lessons and learnt something.

Yeh but its good on uni applications

True, but it didn get me into LSE or Manchester. Gotta settle for a top 20 instead of a top 10..

Failure. I bet your Asian family disowned you.

btownmeggy wrote:Failure. I bet your Asian family disowned you.

Yes, but that was just because he's an ugly git.

2dimes wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww&N=1

And poor Mario Lopez, trying so hard to keep from laughing.

To the other educators here...what are your thoughts on Mainstreaming? I personally found it distracting when trying to present a lecture. I wouldn't want to deny anyone an education in a traditional setting, but special needs students need specialists. I remember hearing the different arguments in my theory classes and both sides made good points.

Perhaps Guiscard can offer some thoughts on this as he has a relative which deals specifically in this area.

luns101 wrote:To the other educators here...what are your thoughts on Mainstreaming? I personally found it distracting when trying to present a lecture. I wouldn't want to deny anyone an education in a traditional setting, but special needs students need specialists. I remember hearing the different arguments in my theory classes and both sides made good points.

Perhaps Guiscard can offer some thoughts on this as he has a relative which deals specifically in this area.

To be honest, in this country we have very little mainstreaming, at least in terms of disability (rather than low ability). My mother teachers those with special needs at primary level and she works one-on-one away from classes. I think generally this is a great idea. Most of the kids she deals with, usually over the course of three years, improve to a much greater extent than they would have in their normal classroom environment. This means that when they move on to secondary level they can function fairly well in the lower sets (we generally have setted subjects from secondary onwards) with some specialist help.