Conquer Club

Metsfanmax wrote:The whole point of game chat is that we're going to provide an official avenue for players to converse about the game while they are playing it, so that should be considered part of the official game record and available to the public for inspection.

And yet you aren't really able to provide a reason why the game chat needs to be available for public inspection, other than a vague 'principle'.

Like DDS says, cheaters get caught when they are reported by people they have played against, and/or when someone stalks them and notices a suspicious pattern in their games. Making game chat private would have no impact upon people's ability to file these sorts of reports.

The site has been around 10+ years, all public. The burden of proof is not on him to say why it should remain public, but what benefit does the site gain by making it private.
I don't really see much that warrants the coding time spent on something like this when it doesn't really need to be and has potential to cause other problems. It's not really solving a existing problem or adding a new widely beneficial feature.

There are 304 private non-tournament games either being played or waiting to fill up at this very moment, so we are talking about a mod that would upgrade hundreds of games per day.

No one has come up with any real problems that this update would pose, but there are at least two substantive reasons why a number of CC players would consider it beneficial.

On a side note, this site is not 'all public'. There are already private forums and private messages. People appreciate privacy and this is an update that would give extra privacy to people who want it.

IcePack wrote:The site has been around 10+ years, all public. The burden of proof is not on him to say why it should remain public, but what benefit does the site gain by making it private.
I don't really see much that warrants the coding time spent on something like this when it doesn't really need to be and has potential to cause other problems. It's not really solving a existing problem or adding a new widely beneficial feature.

I don't believe writing in the code into this would be all that complex. More than likely just set up another div and write a few lines for it. Not the subject matter expert in this but I don't imagine it'd be hard to implement as an option.

DirtyDishSoap wrote:

IcePack wrote:The site has been around 10+ years, all public. The burden of proof is not on him to say why it should remain public, but what benefit does the site gain by making it private.
I don't really see much that warrants the coding time spent on something like this when it doesn't really need to be and has potential to cause other problems. It's not really solving a existing problem or adding a new widely beneficial feature.

I don't believe writing in the code into this would be all that complex. More than likely just set up another div and write a few lines for it. Not the subject matter expert in this but I don't imagine it'd be hard to implement as an option.

The site has too many "options" as it is, and code isn't as easy as most people think. CC's code is very expansive and complex w coding showing up in multiple locations / affecting multiple things you wouldn't normally think. (This is why testing updates is difficult, it can break stuff it should have no impact on).
Also why items that aren't options are preferred because the more options you have, the more test cases and scenarios you have to address when updating anything else.

Don't make it optional then, if that would be such a pain. Someone who felt compelled to have their chat on display but keep spaces in the game for their friends would still be perfectly able to start a non-private game then reserve all the spots for their friends.

At the moment a private game is basically just an invite game except when the invite times out other people can't join. In its current form it's totally unnecessary. If the chat were to be made private, it would offer something different and have utility.

IcePack wrote:

DirtyDishSoap wrote:

IcePack wrote:The site has been around 10+ years, all public. The burden of proof is not on him to say why it should remain public, but what benefit does the site gain by making it private.
I don't really see much that warrants the coding time spent on something like this when it doesn't really need to be and has potential to cause other problems. It's not really solving a existing problem or adding a new widely beneficial feature.

I don't believe writing in the code into this would be all that complex. More than likely just set up another div and write a few lines for it. Not the subject matter expert in this but I don't imagine it'd be hard to implement as an option.

The site has too many "options" as it is, and code isn't as easy as most people think. CC's code is very expansive and complex w coding showing up in multiple locations / affecting multiple things you wouldn't normally think. (This is why testing updates is difficult, it can break stuff it should have no impact on).
Also why items that aren't options are preferred because the more options you have, the more test cases and scenarios you have to address when updating anything else.

It entirely depends on how they're coding it. I'm pretty sure they're not just pulling up the notepad and writing in it in HTML format and hoping for the best. If it's CSS3 or Javascript, it really isn't that difficult. It's a web browser game without, as far as I know at least, any animations. It's purely text with a few buttons here and there with a RNG and some 'if's'. In regards to testing, you can take the copy of the entirety of the code and put it in into your own desktop and test it from there without putting it live. Probably the most difficult thing about it is finding where you're going to place it without it screwing with another line.

DirtyDishSoap wrote:

IcePack wrote:

DirtyDishSoap wrote:

IcePack wrote:The site has been around 10+ years, all public. The burden of proof is not on him to say why it should remain public, but what benefit does the site gain by making it private.
I don't really see much that warrants the coding time spent on something like this when it doesn't really need to be and has potential to cause other problems. It's not really solving a existing problem or adding a new widely beneficial feature.

I don't believe writing in the code into this would be all that complex. More than likely just set up another div and write a few lines for it. Not the subject matter expert in this but I don't imagine it'd be hard to implement as an option.

The site has too many "options" as it is, and code isn't as easy as most people think. CC's code is very expansive and complex w coding showing up in multiple locations / affecting multiple things you wouldn't normally think. (This is why testing updates is difficult, it can break stuff it should have no impact on).
Also why items that aren't options are preferred because the more options you have, the more test cases and scenarios you have to address when updating anything else.

It entirely depends on how they're coding it. I'm pretty sure they're not just pulling up the notepad and writing in it in HTML format and hoping for the best. If it's CSS3 or Javascript, it really isn't that difficult. It's a web browser game without, as far as I know at least, any animations. It's purely text with a few buttons here and there with a RNG and some 'if's'. In regards to testing, you can take the copy of the entirety of the code and put it in into your own desktop and test it from there without putting it live. Probably the most difficult thing about it is finding where you're going to place it without it screwing with another line.

There are some minor animations for new players iirc, and I don't know how it's coded. But I do know it's not nearly as simple as you make it sound here. Previous owners had hired coders who couldn't make heads or tails out of the code or where to start. There is a lot of code, and it intertwines / connects to many other areas.

I understand that, but the line of code that'd required would be tied into games only and as an option when making one. So it'd have to follow onto another page. I make it sound simple because I'm 90% sure it is. I'm not asking to re-create Pac Man here, I'm asking for a simple button option with a private chat.

if you want noone to read ur chat in private games or in non private games check the box that says note to self then only you see the chat

The idea is to have a private chat with say, 3 of your friends in a game. No one needs to read the chat. It isn't necessary for it to be public because 90% of the time that's not how cheating is caught. Maybe flaming, but again, that is usually done through those players in the game or through the rating system.

Notes are notes.

DirtyDishSoap wrote:The idea is to have a private chat with say, 3 of your friends in a game. No one needs to read the chat. It isn't necessary for it to be public because 90% of the time that's not how cheating is caught. Maybe flaming, but again, that is usually done through those players in the game or through the rating system.

Notes are notes.

no, the idea is that the OP got busted for saying racist garbage in a public game and now the solution isn't to NOT SAY RACIST SHIT IN CHAT, it is to MAKE CHAT PRIVATE. you can't leave out this portion of what is going on:

Subject: mrswdk/ EXCESSIVE RACISM [ka]


in 10 years of existence, he is the first person to declare that private chat options are necessary, due to his receiving a ban that wasn't warranted, because he does not feel as if he broke the racism/bigotry guidelines, despite clearly doing so. cloak/veil this however you want, but the OP's interest is merely to be able to say and do whatever he chooses to do, without repercussions. this sugg will never happen. it isn't plausible, you haven't explained WHY it makes the site better or WHY it is needed. get on any of a multi-tude of chat engines. hell, even clan forums and private chat rooms in live chat are not fully invisible!! the mods/admins can peak behind any curtain, and there is no way that is changing.

seems like the easier solution would be for the OP to either conduct chat via other means or to simply adhere to the sit rules. the black jesus has spoken..-Jésus noir

People reading this thread are already well aware of the reasons being put forward for this suggestion:
- Privacy for clan members to discuss tactics in-game
- Privacy for players to converse without having to worry about whether their posts are going to be used against them by forum trolls
- Privacy for those who wish to play without having everything they do published

Quite why owen is allowed to repeatedly hound me about how this suggestion is because I wish to be racist is beyond me. This suggestion is because I first and foremost use this site because I want to play risk, and I do not wish to have my risk-playing experience spoiled by the tiny minority users who insist on using this site as their own personal stress toy. I wish to be able to use this site privately, without any need to interact with its most unpleasant members. There is a foe button so I don't have to read their posts and private forums so I can talk to my friends freely, but at present I am unable to play a game without having to second guess every single message I write. Other members have put forward a host of reasons why they too would appreciate some privacy when using this site. We have seen no real reasons put forward about why this is a bad idea. It seems like an open and shut suggestion.

even if the game chat is private, it would not stop someone involved in the game taking a screenshot of the "private" chat and forwarding it onto the Moderation team if they feel that site rules have been broken

Razorvich wrote:even if the game chat is private, it would not stop someone involved in the game taking a screenshot of the "private" chat and forwarding it onto the Moderation team if they feel that site rules have been broken

Once again, the reports of broken guidelines are coming from players usually in game. No one is suggesting we keep even the moderation team out, that's counter intuitive.

Razorvich wrote:even if the game chat is private, it would not stop someone involved in the game taking a screenshot of the "private" chat and forwarding it onto the Moderation team if they feel that site rules have been broken

Exactly. People involved in games would still be able to report issues. This change would just keep out the people who have no real business being in the game in the first place.

mrswdk wrote:

Razorvich wrote:even if the game chat is private, it would not stop someone involved in the game taking a screenshot of the "private" chat and forwarding it onto the Moderation team if they feel that site rules have been broken

Exactly. People involved in games would still be able to report issues. This change would just keep out the people who have no real business being in the game in the first place.

Well to be honest.. I was thinking of Clan training games. Don't really give 2 hoots about the troll arguement.. seems nothing will stop you lot going at it at times

something like developing set plays to be used apon an opposing team... all private for only those involved.

Razorvich wrote:

mrswdk wrote:

Razorvich wrote:even if the game chat is private, it would not stop someone involved in the game taking a screenshot of the "private" chat and forwarding it onto the Moderation team if they feel that site rules have been broken

Exactly. People involved in games would still be able to report issues. This change would just keep out the people who have no real business being in the game in the first place.

Well to be honest.. I was thinking of Clan training games. Don't really give 2 hoots about the troll arguement.. seems nothing will stop you lot going at it at times

something like developing set plays to be used apon an opposing team... all private for only those involved.

- Raz got it right! Being able to discuss strategy between 2 teams in same clan without having it seen publicly would be nice.

- I'm in favor for this alone, I could care less about people seeig my chat, just not my chat when discussing strategy.

- And to be clear, when setting up 2 team quads clan practice war, Being able to bounce chat back and forth between the 2 teams without it being public is what I'm interested in.

-\MGM/-♎

MagnusGreeol wrote:

Razorvich wrote:

mrswdk wrote:

Razorvich wrote:even if the game chat is private, it would not stop someone involved in the game taking a screenshot of the "private" chat and forwarding it onto the Moderation team if they feel that site rules have been broken

Exactly. People involved in games would still be able to report issues. This change would just keep out the people who have no real business being in the game in the first place.

Well to be honest.. I was thinking of Clan training games. Don't really give 2 hoots about the troll arguement.. seems nothing will stop you lot going at it at times

something like developing set plays to be used apon an opposing team... all private for only those involved.

- Raz got it right! Being able to discuss strategy between 2 teams in same clan without having it seen publicly would be nice.

- I'm in favor for this alone, I could care less about people seeig my chat, just not my chat when discussing strategy.

- And to be clear, when setting up 2 team quads clan practice war, Being able to bounce chat back and forth between the 2 teams without it being public is what I'm interested in.

-\MGM/-♎

yes, let's make another change for the clan world... since all the others they forced through haven't led to a mass exodus from the site... let's keep doing things for the clans!!!-Jésus noir

p.s.-this is still a suggestion by a member that was busted for using racist language in game chat and he wants it to be invisible, so he can continue to do so, freely. as he does not believe
it is wrong. this suggestion will never shake that stigma, just like that player never will. and we all know how many suggs get implemented. this won't be one of them.

MagnusGreeol wrote:

Razorvich wrote:

mrswdk wrote:

Razorvich wrote:even if the game chat is private, it would not stop someone involved in the game taking a screenshot of the "private" chat and forwarding it onto the Moderation team if they feel that site rules have been broken

Exactly. People involved in games would still be able to report issues. This change would just keep out the people who have no real business being in the game in the first place.

Well to be honest.. I was thinking of Clan training games. Don't really give 2 hoots about the troll arguement.. seems nothing will stop you lot going at it at times

something like developing set plays to be used apon an opposing team... all private for only those involved.

- Raz got it right! Being able to discuss strategy between 2 teams in same clan without having it seen publicly would be nice.

- I'm in favor for this alone, I could care less about people seeig my chat, just not my chat when discussing strategy.

- And to be clear, when setting up 2 team quads clan practice war, Being able to bounce chat back and forth between the 2 teams without it being public is what I'm interested in.

-\MGM/-♎

All the more reason to have this implemented then.

Again, despite previous arguments, I fail to see the logic or reasoning why it can't be private. The moderation team would have access to it, if there is cheating going on, it is rather easy to find through game logs, chat is usually the last thing to find anything. SD's aren't even discussed through chat, otherwise it wouldn't be secret. Come on people, how hard is it to grasp.

Who are the people who would be implementing this? Can we get some input from them?

concrete wrote:You will probably get all kinds of negative comments on this, but I like it. Clan members can play against each other 1 vs 1 or teams and discuss strategy between players or teams without fear of their comments being read by others.
Also, no one who wears their feelings on their sleeves will be offended by reading chat not meant for them or anyone else.
I fully support this.

Exactly, said it from the start......great for training/clan training games. Once you put aside the troll crap, this is a great idea.

Look, owen has gotten stuck on the racist thing like a broken record.....what ever the reason this suggestion got started, so what....inside the augment is a really good idea. I think clans help players who get on this site, stay on this site. It certainly isn't the only reason they stay but it is a reason. This can only help improve training for clans and any other training game.

concrete wrote:I think clans help players who get on this site, stay on this site. It certainly isn't the only reason they stay but it is a reason. This can only help improve training for clans and any other training game.

so, we have gone from 30k to under 7k with the emphasis on clans and the changing of rules/game settings to their every whim. the adding of the "concrete settings" that slowed the site down and turned a casual gaming site into a site where most games last MONTHS on end now, is the main reason for the decline. throw in the scoreboard whiners, i'm looking at Blitzaholic and his crew, who bitched to have the freestyle rules changed, to help them climb back to the top and eliminate people like Rabbiton from holding on to Conqueror for insanely amounts of time, and the decline was in full swing. i don't think private chat "for clans" is a reason to waste coding. you have your own forums where you can discuss the "training". you know, take screen shots and POST THEM IN THE FORUM, that way everyone can benefit from the "training" in your clan. there are chat engines you can all use. there are a litany of solutions that do not involve coding and coding time wasted by a site that is fighting for it's life, while those that are strangling it, continue to ask for more changes.

yeah, i love to bring up WHY this was brought up, because it is important. the evolution of an idea is important. and for me, this really hasn't evolved enough to even be a blip on the screen for suggestions. this is wasted time and wasted Gator Chips (way over your head, i'm sure.. way over most non-regular forum goers heads... but it's not a flame, so chill)... again, clans do not up the retention of the site, the numbers are dropping like crazy. clans are a little niche community that have greatly added to the demise of the site, with their demands for changes that slow down the games and give them as close to a 100% win probability as possible. count the number of active clan members vs. the 6K on the site, and you are a niche. just like less than 1% of the site ever visits/reads the forums.

the suggestion is a waste of time. there are other solutions to the problem already coded on the site. take a screen shot of the private game chat and post it in your private clan forum. the black jesus has solved the problem...-Jésus noir

In other words this suggestion has utility for clan training, teams of friends training each other, and a wider benefit for those who like to use this site privately, and owen's primary objection is that he doesn't like me.

IcePack wrote:

DirtyDishSoap wrote:

IcePack wrote:The site has been around 10+ years, all public. The burden of proof is not on him to say why it should remain public, but what benefit does the site gain by making it private.
I don't really see much that warrants the coding time spent on something like this when it doesn't really need to be and has potential to cause other problems. It's not really solving a existing problem or adding a new widely beneficial feature.

I don't believe writing in the code into this would be all that complex. More than likely just set up another div and write a few lines for it. Not the subject matter expert in this but I don't imagine it'd be hard to implement as an option.

The site has too many "options" as it is, and code isn't as easy as most people think. CC's code is very expansive and complex w coding showing up in multiple locations / affecting multiple things you wouldn't normally think. (This is why testing updates is difficult, it can break stuff it should have no impact on).
Also why items that aren't options are preferred because the more options you have, the more test cases and scenarios you have to address when updating anything else.

which is why this will literally never be done. there are already existing means for clans to share game chat, which this debate has evolved into. as far as for personal games, that will also never occur. mark this one done... it's over...-Bj