Metsfanmax wrote:I think that it became legit when Bob Costas weighed in.
Costas has gone far off the left end recently. He also used the same position to lecture about guns. I actually had Sunday's game on and made sure to change it away before he started his lecture, even though I didn't know the topic. I don't need another lecture on political correctness.
Re: Changing Values and Morality - The Redskins
Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:47 pm
by Serbia
Rick Reilly wrote a good piece on this. Linky here.
Bollocks.
Re: Changing Values and Morality - The Redskins
Posted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:08 pm
by notyou2
thegreekdog wrote:This topic is from another thread (as to whether morality is inherent or changing... I'm sure someone will come up with better words).
Over the past few months, media, entertainment, and political folks have been increasingly up in arms over the football team name "Redskins" (Washington's NFL team). The issue is the bigotry associated with the name (not just the skin color reference, but the history behind the term itself and the people associated with the term). While I'm not offended by the name, I see no compelling reason to keep the name if other folks are offended.
What is annoying me is that these media, entertainment, and political folks are coming out of the proverbial woodwork to be the most vehement that the name needs to change. Now, the Washington team has had this name since 1933 (they were the Boston Braves in 1932). Many of these media, entertainment, and political figures have had active and public voices in the United States long before 2013. So, why the vehemence and outrage now? Why not in 1947 or 1972 or 1986 or 1999 or 2008 or 2012?
The basic questions are these: - Is this name more offensive in 2013 than it was in any other period since 1933? - Why do people feel the need to be outraged now and not in any other period since 1933? - How much weight do we place on the opinions of people who used the term "Redskins" profusely for years before suddenly changing their values and/or moral compass in 2013?
*Fun note - The Tampa Bay Rays were formerly called the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. A group of Christians got the name changed a few years ago, even though a devil ray is an actual, you know, animal.
As society changes, morality changes with it. Recently, social media is having a huge influence on morality or at least the appearance of what seems right or wrong.
I feel that "Redskins" is offensive, because it is a derogatory name, but not necessarily "Chiefs or Braves". Calling a native "chief" is derogatory if he isn't a chief, but speaking of chiefs isn't.
The Devil Ray thing is simply a vocal group imposing it's influence unduly and the team caving to a special interest group.
Re: Changing Values and Morality - The Redskins
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:58 am
by Nobunaga
The Redskins thing is simply a vocal group imposing it's influence unduly and the team (potentially) caving to a special interest group.
Switch Devil Rays for Redskins in that sentence. I see no real difference.
I do agree that the term Redskins might be offensive - I can imagine not liking that much were I of native blood.
But the question remains - Can a privately owned company be forced to change its name because some people are offended?
Re: Changing Values and Morality - The Redskins
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:15 am
by Night Strike
I thought the Devil Rays changed because they didn't like the two-word name and felt it was awkward to shorten it to just "Rays" when it was the 2nd name. In fact, wasn't that the only two-word MLB team other than the colored socks?
Re: Changing Values and Morality - The Redskins
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:27 am
by mrswdk
African American Socks. Get with the times, boy.
Re: Changing Values and Morality - The Redskins
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:32 am
by Night Strike
mrswdk wrote:African American Socks. Get with the times, boy.
You should learn which color socks are actually in MLB.
Re: Changing Values and Morality - The Redskins
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:39 am
by Serbia
Blue Jays.
Bollocks.
Re: Changing Values and Morality - The Redskins
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:40 am
by mrswdk
Boston Black Sox.
Re: Changing Values and Morality - The Redskins
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:46 am
by Serbia
mrswdk wrote:Boston Black Sox.
No such team. Boston Red Sox. Go be ignorant somewhere else.
Bollocks.
Re: Changing Values and Morality - The Redskins
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:47 am
by Night Strike
Serbia wrote:Blue Jays.
Bollocks.
They're still stuck in Canada.....do they really count as an MLB team?
And thanks, I knew I was forgetting somebody
Re: Changing Values and Morality - The Redskins
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:49 am
by _sabotage_
Black Sox is the nickname of the 1919 Chicago White Sox.
Re: Changing Values and Morality - The Redskins
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:51 am
by notyou2
Night Strike wrote:
Serbia wrote:Blue Jays.
Bollocks.
They're still stuck in Canada.....do they really count as an MLB team?
And thanks, I knew I was forgetting somebody
Please elaborate on what you mean by "stuck in Canada".
Re: Changing Values and Morality - The Redskins
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:00 pm
by Serbia
notyou2 wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
Serbia wrote:Blue Jays.
Bollocks.
They're still stuck in Canada.....do they really count as an MLB team?
And thanks, I knew I was forgetting somebody
Please elaborate on what you mean by "stuck in Canada".
Maybe their travel visas expired.
Bollocks.
Re: Changing Values and Morality - The Redskins
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 12:05 pm
by notyou2
Serbia wrote:
notyou2 wrote:
Night Strike wrote:
Serbia wrote:Blue Jays.
Bollocks.
They're still stuck in Canada.....do they really count as an MLB team?
And thanks, I knew I was forgetting somebody
Please elaborate on what you mean by "stuck in Canada".
Maybe their travel visas expired.
Bollocks.
Ahh, never thought of that. Whole team must be Cubans. Thanks Serb.
Re: Changing Values and Morality - The Redskins
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:33 pm
by keiths31
Night Strike wrote:
Serbia wrote:Blue Jays.
Bollocks.
They're still stuck in Canada.....do they really count as an MLB team?
And thanks, I knew I was forgetting somebody
They have won 2 World Series. It was 20 years ago...but still.
Re: Changing Values and Morality - The Redskins
Posted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:05 pm
by Lootifer
Nobunaga wrote:
The Redskins thing is simply a vocal group imposing it's influence unduly and the team (potentially) caving to a special interest group.
Switch Devil Rays for Redskins in that sentence. I see no real difference.
I do agree that the term Redskins might be offensive - I can imagine not liking that much were I of native blood.
But the question remains - Can a privately owned company be forced to change its name because some people are offended?
No, but neither is there a problem with someone (or a lot of people for that matter) having a whinge in the media about a perceived derogatory publicly facing brand.
Personally I find it odd that you would keep a name like Redskins in modern society (I would find blackskins or slantyeyes equally odd), but hey if the native americans do not have an issue with it then I share their view.
Re: Changing Values and Morality - The Redskins
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:29 am
by Phatscotty
What about the 50-60-70-80 and 90% Native American Indian schools who rock the name 'Redskins' on their sports teams....do we have to teach them to be offended too
Cu I'm guessing this is the new racism of our time where everyone can do it EXCEPT white people
Re: Changing Values and Morality - The Redskins
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:54 am
by mrswdk
Ikr. You're not even allowed to vote for a white president any more.
Re: Changing Values and Morality - The Redskins
Posted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:27 am
by Phatscotty
mrswdk wrote:Ikr. You're not even allowed to vote for a white president any more.
If it's a woman I can!!!!!
idea brought to you by official University endorsed PC culture
Re: Changing Values and Morality - The Redskins
Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:48 pm
by Lootifer
Phatscotty wrote:What about the 50-60-70-80 and 90% Native American Indian schools who rock the name 'Redskins' on their sports teams....do we have to teach them to be offended too
but hey if the native americans do not have an issue with it then I share their view.
It is purely their choice and their choice alone to dictate the right or wrong of it.
Re: Changing Values and Morality - The Redskins
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:07 am
by mrswdk
Political correctness may be running more out of control than the NSA but at least cops who pepper-spray Occupy hippies can still get government compensation for it. Glad to know that liberal extremism hasn't yet killed the noble tradition of police brutality against lefties.
Re: Changing Values and Morality - The Redskins
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:32 am
by oVo
notyou2 wrote:I feel that "Redskins" is offensive, because it is a derogatory name, but not necessarily "Chiefs or Braves". Calling a native "chief" is derogatory if he isn't a chief, but speaking of chiefs isn't.
I disagree. The name Washington Redskins is not a derogatory label, it is the moniker of a professional sports franchise. The name is a source of pride among Skin's fans and has existed as such for the entire history of the team. There was no negative intent with the team's choice for a name or visual symbols and icons used to represent the team.
It's possible Hog litigation may follow this label BS, as well as team name changes across all sports nationwide in America.
Re: Changing Values and Morality - The Redskins
Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:04 am
by muy_thaiguy
Phatscotty wrote:What about the 50-60-70-80 and 90% Native American Indian schools who rock the name 'Redskins' on their sports teams....do we have to teach them to be offended too
Cu I'm guessing this is the new racism of our time where everyone can do it EXCEPT white people
After chatting with a person of Native American heritage about this very subject on another board, she says this name is highly offensive, she hates it, other people with Native American background hates it, and all see it as deragatory and offensive. They don't even say the name, they don't like it that much. And I can't blame them. That would be like trying to get a pro team called the "n" word or a similar insult. To just brush it off and say "Oh, they don't care!" Without even listening to them is complete ignorance. And this has been an issue for them for quite a long time, only its just now coming into the light.
And I would like to see proof of Native American schools calling themselves "Redskins".
Teams like the Utah Utes have asked, and recieved, permission to use a tribe's name, which is one thing.
