Conquer Club

from what i remember was korts bust not also including regular team games. from one of there former clan page posts (which how did chuuck get this if he wasnt in the clan pages anymore.) it looks like they were accidentally signed up to clan war games. when they were signing up to tourney games.(which is not against site rules)... also since there was a vote a while back in cla allowing sitters to sign up to clan games and play shots along the same lines as tourneys. the games above have no merit because it was within the rules and when someone has taken on a certain amount of players games it is easy to just go in and make a few shots for them and play some that are not really that short of time but by the examples proven there was about 9 hours left on there shots.(which could come under a sleep at night and a night out.) i am not saying there is not abuse but i cannot see it in the examples and the evidence provided when these games come under a rule that was allowed to stay in place by the clan leaders who are members of cla.

chemefreak wrote:This is disgusting. Talk about betraying a brother-in-arms. Didn't seem to bother you while it was happening, but now that you have jumped ship (AGAIN) you are going to throw your former clan mate under the bus. Absolutely disgusting.

It's disgusting that it happened.

Forget the fact that Chuuuuck is out of the clan and maybe it is "low." But it's against the rules. I'd be so pissed if I was in one of those games that just got brought up. I can't believe you take the angle of CoF as the victim here.

chapcrap wrote:

chemefreak wrote:This is disgusting. Talk about betraying a brother-in-arms. Didn't seem to bother you while it was happening, but now that you have jumped ship (AGAIN) you are going to throw your former clan mate under the bus. Absolutely disgusting.

It's disgusting that it happened.

Forget the fact that Chuuuuck is out of the clan and maybe it is "low." But it's against the rules. I'd be so pissed if I was in one of those games that just got brought up. I can't believe you take the angle of CoF as the victim here.

Thanks, chap.

I hope people don't continue to attack the whistleblower, and instead focus their comments on the revealed cheater.

Posting in epic thread.

This is a clear bust that I saw coming from miles/months away, but I must confess I underestimated the size of the collusion.

How do I go about adopting a kitten now?

Anecdotally, if you want a tl;dr surefire way of knowing whether someone deserves a bust in C&A without having to read walls of text (which I have read, by the way), you just have to look at eddie2's opinion and flip it 180º.

Never fails.

eddie2 wrote:from what i remember was korts bust not also including regular team games. from one of there former clan page posts (which how did chuuck get this if he wasnt in the clan pages anymore.) it looks like they were accidentally signed up to clan war games. when they were signing up to tourney games.(which is not against site rules)... also since there was a vote a while back in cla allowing sitters to sign up to clan games and play shots along the same lines as tourneys. the games above have no merit because it was within the rules and when someone has taken on a certain amount of players games it is easy to just go in and make a few shots for them and play some that are not really that short of time but by the examples proven there was about 9 hours left on there shots.(which could come under a sleep at night and a night out.) i am not saying there is not abuse but i cannot see it in the examples and the evidence provided when these games come under a rule that was allowed to stay in place by the clan leaders who are members of cla.

I'm going to ask for a warning for flaming/baiting here: Eddie, you're so full of shit I can smell it in Mexico.

Lx

You have to remember that it goes Admin then C&A/Multi Hunters then the rest of us idiot volunteers. No one will consult a clan mod here or give a shit what we think. They will have a back room meeting regarding this case and then shove it down our throats. Account sitting in clans is unique...but no one cares. I mean there are only over 2000 paying members in clans...who gives a shit about them!

I will say this, the prospect of playing a clan war against COF alone terrifies me! Right up there with playing an entire war against danryan or Bruceswar! Talk about unfair.

Well, this is not the first time nor will it be the last time we have seen this from a top player. Lets be honest, we all know it goes on amongst a fair few teams even if we couldn't prove it. In some honest teams, you get people who "lead" and just basically order everyone about because it is easier to play with one mind than 4 even if all 4 are capable players. So the temptation to break the rules is strong, especially when you get people with large personalities who are very skilled at the game.

Lets hope people learn from this and start making other people take their own turns.

2012-06-15 14:33:49 - sonicsteve [team]: Haha, you're covering for the whole clan now?
2012-06-16 10:01:50 - Chuuuuck [team]: yep (Chariot of Fire)
2012-06-16 22:01:23 - Chuuuuck [team]: Dang Simon, how did you get the entire swedish gang? (Chuuuuck)

Hysterical!

weeell that was just about the saddest report i've ever seen... over something that really doesn't affect too much...

congrats, i'm sure you're right chuck... although admittedly i (like most others i'm sure) stopped reading fairly quickly upon noticing how unimportant the actual crime is...

looks like you spent hours on this report... i uh, well... just please don't ever take an interest in me...

As for COF you should be site banned for helping someone when its possible they could ended up taking their turns... just horrid

pmchugh wrote:Well, this is not the first time nor will it be the last time we have seen this from a top player. Lets be honest, we all know it goes on amongst a fair few teams even if we couldn't prove it. In some honest teams, you get people who "lead" and just basically order everyone about because it is easier to play with one mind than 4 even if all 4 are capable players. So the temptation to break the rules is strong, especially when you get people with large personalities who are very skilled at the game.

Lets hope people learn from this and start making other people take their own turns.

It's the only way nowadays to be a top player/clan, and it's too easy. That's why it's so important to do something about it.

Lx

Fastposted by KraphtOne. How the f*ck can you say this is unimportant, or doesn't affect the honest players on CC?

chemefreak wrote:You have to remember that it goes Admin then C&A/Multi Hunters then the rest of us idiot volunteers. No one will consult a clan mod here or give a shit what we think. They will have a back room meeting regarding this case and then shove it down our throats. Account sitting in clans is unique...but no one cares. I mean there are only over 2000 paying members in clans...who gives a shit about them!

I will say this, the prospect of playing a clan war against COF alone terrifies me! Right up there with playing an entire war against danryan or Bruceswar! Talk about unfair.

While I agree with your first two sentences, why should account sitting in clans be unique? Are you saying that clans shouldn't have to adhere to the same rules us non-clan members are held to?

ok look at this from what i am trying to say...... lindax i am not justifying this 100 percent. but...
Account Sitting Abuse - josko.ri [warned]
Postby Bones2484 on Tue May 24, 2011 11:27 pm

cofs first bust was just before this or just after. there then was a big talk about this where some members were saying it should be allowed and some saying not allowed (i was one of the ones saying not allowed.) i even started this thread as a disapproval to the final result of allowing it..
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=443&t=154115&hilit=sitting+abuse.

this was just after the vote excluding the sitters rules from clan wars.

then i experianced a case of sitting abuse in games where we actually watched the accounts change 2 and from peoples accounts..
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=442&t=149430&start=60

all we got was a game remake.... (and i gave up chasing sitter abuse in clan games) I also believe i was the first person to bring a sitting abuse case to c and a forums from the clan wars.
http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=239&t=132513&p=2901843&hilit=bogangod#p2901843.

all the same i was drunk at the time.

Since the date or the part rule but not fully explained rule was put in place by cla vote. has there been any form of sitters abuse cases in clan wars, i cannot remember one, and think it is time for the clan department to actually come up with a clear set of rules for sitting peoples accounts during wars because i am still unclear to what was agreed to be allowed and what wasn't because from what i remember the vote said a member could sign up and play full games for any member.

eddie2 wrote:all the same i was drunk at the time.

Well, that explains just about all your posts I guess.

Lx

blakebowling wrote:

chemefreak wrote:You have to remember that it goes Admin then C&A/Multi Hunters then the rest of us idiot volunteers. No one will consult a clan mod here or give a shit what we think. They will have a back room meeting regarding this case and then shove it down our throats. Account sitting in clans is unique...but no one cares. I mean there are only over 2000 paying members in clans...who gives a shit about them!

I will say this, the prospect of playing a clan war against COF alone terrifies me! Right up there with playing an entire war against danryan or Bruceswar! Talk about unfair.

While I agree with your first two sentences, why should account sitting in clans be unique? Are you saying that clans shouldn't have to adhere to the same rules us non-clan members are held to?

Sort of! I'm just saying it is extremely unique. The games mean something. It is not just about the points. It is not uncommon for several players in a clan to have everyone's password just in case coverage is necessary. A missed turn can doom an entire war...I have seen it happen. I'm not saying what happened here is justifiable or right/wrong. I'm just pointing out that it is different.

To me, after thinking a little more, the same level of justice should probably be administered to all involved and all who allowed CoF to unnecessarily sit for them.

And I agree with Lindax's assessment of Krapht's post.

KraphtOne wrote:congrats, i'm sure you're right chuck... although admittedly i (like most others i'm sure) stopped reading fairly quickly upon noticing how unimportant the actual crime is...

As an occasional MoW, I can assure you that assigning players to home and away games can get really painful sometimes. Why?
I really dislike delving deeper on that, but suffice to say there is a maximum number of games a certain player can join in a clan war/challenge (roughly 33% of the games), so even if you happen to have the Kasparov of Conquer Club in your clan, you'll still have to struggle into making good teams to cover the other (roughly) 67% of the games. There are a lot of nuances to consider such as:
- some players not getting along with others
- some clanmates not doing particularly well on the maps/settings available but still need to play a minimum ammount of games for medal eligibility
- trying to get clanmates on close timezones as to maximize the window they have to communicate during the 24-hour timespan of the turn
- the best player for a given map not using MSN, which heavily hampers communication
- 5 people volunteering for an away quads game that, by definition, can only be played by 4, which can lead to the need of somehow compensating the one that was not chosen

The list could go on, but the point here is that MoWs are forced to consider several details before assigning an optimal clan/team composition in compliance with the rules.

Having a clan set one of their "star players" up for a dose bigger than those 33% is an illegal way to circumvent the rules and therefore achieve an illegal competitive advantage. Making a mockery of the whole clan world cannot be perceived as an unimportant crime.

if anything, all members of the team this happened on are just as guilty as CoF. they all knew it was happening and said nothing. not until one of them was removed from the clan did it come to light.

Wow, just wow. I never would have expected a report in this fashion.

But thanks to rodian for lightening the mood a little with his post last page

KraphtOne wrote:weeell that was just about the saddest report i've ever seen... over something that really doesn't affect too much...

congrats, i'm sure you're right chuck... although admittedly i (like most others i'm sure) stopped reading fairly quickly upon noticing how unimportant the actual crime is...

looks like you spent hours on this report... i uh, well... just please don't ever take an interest in me...

As for COF you should be site banned for helping someone when its possible they could ended up taking their turns... just horrid

I don't think you understand. CoF takes those turns for a tactical advantage, not because the other players cannot take them. I'd like to say that I have nothing against the guy and its a shame he has to get busted in such a manner, because he is certainly not the only one doing it.

Lindax wrote:It's the only way nowadays to be a top player/clan, and it's too easy. That's why it's so important to do something about it.

I agree.

Rodion wrote:

KraphtOne wrote:congrats, i'm sure you're right chuck... although admittedly i (like most others i'm sure) stopped reading fairly quickly upon noticing how unimportant the actual crime is...

As an occasional MoW, I can assure you that assigning players to home and away games can get really painful sometimes. Why?
I really dislike delving deeper on that, but suffice to say there is a maximum number of games a certain player can join in a clan war/challenge (roughly 33% of the games), so even if you happen to have the Kasparov of Conquer Club in your clan, you'll still have to struggle into making good teams to cover the other (roughly) 67% of the games. There are a lot of nuances to consider such as:
- some players not getting along with others
- some clanmates not doing particularly well on the maps/settings available but still need to play a minimum ammount of games for medal eligibility
- trying to get clanmates on close timezones as to maximize the window they have to communicate during the 24-hour timespan of the turn
- the best player for a given map not using MSN, which heavily hampers communication
- 5 people volunteering for an away quads game that, by definition, can only be played by 4, which can lead to the need of somehow compensating the one that was not chosen

The list could go on, but the point here is that MoWs are forced to consider several details before assigning an optimal clan/team composition in compliance with the rules.

Having a clan set one of their "star players" up for a dose bigger than those 33% is an illegal way to circumvent the rules and therefore achieve an illegal competitive advantage. Making a mockery of the whole clan world cannot be perceived as an unimportant crime.

+1

hmsps wrote:Personally i think this report is a little low. It looks to me that you are posting stuff which i would class as professional privledge. I do wonder what this site is coming too, people posting for GLG. Whats your motive here, is a personal vendetta or is it purely for the good of the site. You really need to question your morals. Maybe some sort of disclosure report should be signed when leaving a clan.

I have no doubt about the validity of what is claimed and if so COF will get a punishment.

Agree; questionable motives no question.

I think anyone who benefitted from this should receive the same punishment. Except, since this is apparently CoF's second infraction, he should get a more severe punishment. The fact that this went on for so long, really makes me unsympathetic even to people who were trying to affect the change from inside the clan. You can only do that for so long, and then this should have been passed on to the higher-ups outside the clan. Clan wars are designed to get many players' involvement and limit the involvement of any single player. As was said, this was a way of allowing their best player to participate in far more games than he was allotted and allowed. It also allowed this player to take over entire teams.

I also think the same punishment should be dealt out to Chuuuck. It's great that he brought this forward, but this is far too late and his benefit far too great to allow leniency here.

I know this probably isn't part of what C&A does, but I wonder what the implication is for any clan wars that have been affected? I assume that's a discussion that the clan mods will have to handle, right?

I must admit, if i took all the turns for our clan we'd win 100% of the time

My point that i guess i missed in my other post is that to me this happens so much with top tier teamers that how can you even begin to complain about it...

i'd be willing to bet that this happens *gasp* even in chucks clan, where someone gets a little trigger happy with peoples' passwords...

if it were up to me account sitting would be illegal... if you miss you miss, tough shit...

you know how insane it would be to try to figure out EVERY situation where this occurs... and with EVERY situation (like farming cases) there is most likely an excuse that (while probably BS) can't just be openly ignored because you don't believe the person...

personally i think everyone that looks like they are doing something shady, IS doing something shady... but jesus, the rules here... its like the wild west

I can't believe that some of the first reactions here are to "question the motives" of the person filing the report. Don't you get that Chuuuck will be looking at a ban (or whatever his level of punishment is) as well as CoF, sonicsteve, Iron Maid, Pedronicus, and some of the others? This report is not what is disgusting, the actions that led to the report are disgusting! This proves what a mockery the whole clan scene has become. And CoF, what a hypocrite! This is truly a new low on CC. And I'm quickly getting fed up with this site. How long have we all been screaming for an account sitting feature, to eliminate this very type of abuse? And are we ANY closer? Such utter bull shit.

Ban those responsible. Ban 'em. Too disgusted to say anything else.