Conquer Club

I can still see mixed opponents from NR's to veteran players coming from these 1vs1 Poison Rome games he creates. He does not drop the games when a veteran player joins. If you see him inviting new recruits, please do provide them. He is also mixing his games with different maps. There are not enough new recruits in his collection of opponents since he is making 2 player games. It is going to take a lot of more games for him to collect many NR opponents in this style. Is Poison Rome even a complicated map? I also take into consideration if the map and settings are quite complicated for a new recruit to understand. If they are simple enough, then the new recruit has a fair chance to play and win.

king sam wrote:Alstergren I outlined your own statements that make this a spurious report, which was the reason the other thread was locked. Your not making a report to the C&A Team to bring to the communities attention of a violation of the rules, instead your going through game finder to find users who's games have some sort of suspect in them with games with new recruits that you think will be Cleared. Your searching for a ruling that will bless you to systematically play New Recruits. Don't you get it yet ? Your creating a pattern history to go against you regardless if admin Clears whatever case you get Cleared. Cause at that point in time you will adopt their methods in the hopes of playing a lot of games against NR's.

The problem with that is your intentions are to get games with them when the average joe's intentions are to just enjoy themselves and play games. That is the systematically targeting part that you just arent going to get away from.

The farming rules are there to maintain integrity in the score board as well as make sure everyone is having an enjoyable time here. Quit trying to push the envelope, man up and play games against someone who has played more then 10 or kick rocks.

KS

This. I can't help but suspect that you are looking for something in order for you to continuously play new recruits in particular. Again, this constant reports of trying to find ways to play NR has got to stop.

king achilles wrote:I can still see mixed opponents from NR's to veteran players coming from these 1vs1 Poison Rome games he creates. He does not drop the games when a veteran player joins. If you see him inviting new recruits, please do provide them. He is also mixing his games with different maps. There are not enough new recruits in his collection of opponents since he is making 2 player games. It is going to take a lot of more games for him to collect many NR opponents in this style. Is Poison Rome even a complicated map? I also take into consideration if the map and settings are quite complicated for a new recruit to understand. If they are simple enough, then the new recruit has a fair chance to play and win.

king sam wrote:Alstergren I outlined your own statements that make this a spurious report, which was the reason the other thread was locked. Your not making a report to the C&A Team to bring to the communities attention of a violation of the rules, instead your going through game finder to find users who's games have some sort of suspect in them with games with new recruits that you think will be Cleared. Your searching for a ruling that will bless you to systematically play New Recruits. Don't you get it yet ? Your creating a pattern history to go against you regardless if admin Clears whatever case you get Cleared. Cause at that point in time you will adopt their methods in the hopes of playing a lot of games against NR's.

The problem with that is your intentions are to get games with them when the average joe's intentions are to just enjoy themselves and play games. That is the systematically targeting part that you just arent going to get away from.

The farming rules are there to maintain integrity in the score board as well as make sure everyone is having an enjoyable time here. Quit trying to push the envelope, man up and play games against someone who has played more then 10 or kick rocks.

KS

This. I can't help but suspect that you are looking for something in order for you to continuously play new recruits in particular. Again, this constant reports of trying to find ways to play NR has got to stop.

And honestly, if this were a less well-established player there would be a "noted" or a "warning" in place now.

I just made 10 more games and sent out invites to all the high ranked players I know join my games now if they are scared to join and a NR does its not my fault.

Twin Killer, keep your NR opponents in check.

king achilles wrote:I can still see mixed opponents from NR's to veteran players coming from these 1vs1 Poison Rome games he creates. He does not drop the games when a veteran player joins. If you see him inviting new recruits, please do provide them. He is also mixing his games with different maps. There are not enough new recruits in his collection of opponents since he is making 2 player games. It is going to take a lot of more games for him to collect many NR opponents in this style. Is Poison Rome even a complicated map? I also take into consideration if the map and settings are quite complicated for a new recruit to understand. If they are simple enough, then the new recruit has a fair chance to play and win.

king sam wrote:Alstergren I outlined your own statements that make this a spurious report, which was the reason the other thread was locked. Your not making a report to the C&A Team to bring to the communities attention of a violation of the rules, instead your going through game finder to find users who's games have some sort of suspect in them with games with new recruits that you think will be Cleared. Your searching for a ruling that will bless you to systematically play New Recruits. Don't you get it yet ? Your creating a pattern history to go against you regardless if admin Clears whatever case you get Cleared. Cause at that point in time you will adopt their methods in the hopes of playing a lot of games against NR's.

The problem with that is your intentions are to get games with them when the average joe's intentions are to just enjoy themselves and play games. That is the systematically targeting part that you just arent going to get away from.

The farming rules are there to maintain integrity in the score board as well as make sure everyone is having an enjoyable time here. Quit trying to push the envelope, man up and play games against someone who has played more then 10 or kick rocks.

KS

This. I can't help but suspect that you are looking for something in order for you to continuously play new recruits in particular. Again, this constant reports of trying to find ways to play NR has got to stop.

This... now quit your crying Alstergren.. my god

ad10r3tr0 wrote:

king achilles wrote:I can still see mixed opponents from NR's to veteran players coming from these 1vs1 Poison Rome games he creates. He does not drop the games when a veteran player joins. If you see him inviting new recruits, please do provide them. He is also mixing his games with different maps. There are not enough new recruits in his collection of opponents since he is making 2 player games. It is going to take a lot of more games for him to collect many NR opponents in this style. Is Poison Rome even a complicated map? I also take into consideration if the map and settings are quite complicated for a new recruit to understand. If they are simple enough, then the new recruit has a fair chance to play and win.

king sam wrote:Alstergren I outlined your own statements that make this a spurious report, which was the reason the other thread was locked. Your not making a report to the C&A Team to bring to the communities attention of a violation of the rules, instead your going through game finder to find users who's games have some sort of suspect in them with games with new recruits that you think will be Cleared. Your searching for a ruling that will bless you to systematically play New Recruits. Don't you get it yet ? Your creating a pattern history to go against you regardless if admin Clears whatever case you get Cleared. Cause at that point in time you will adopt their methods in the hopes of playing a lot of games against NR's.

The problem with that is your intentions are to get games with them when the average joe's intentions are to just enjoy themselves and play games. That is the systematically targeting part that you just arent going to get away from.

The farming rules are there to maintain integrity in the score board as well as make sure everyone is having an enjoyable time here. Quit trying to push the envelope, man up and play games against someone who has played more then 10 or kick rocks.

KS

This. I can't help but suspect that you are looking for something in order for you to continuously play new recruits in particular. Again, this constant reports of trying to find ways to play NR has got to stop.

This... now quit your crying Alstergren.. my god

I will say this case might be closed but that does not mean it cannot be reopened again.

Bruceswar wrote:For all you speculating on this case. It is a very simple and shut case. CC sees this as farming. Just as you joining games vs new recruits. Creating games that attract new recruits is the same thing. You will be told not to make so many of the same type of games. Use other maps / settings instead. Or not to make so many that new recruits join so much. There is no way to defend these actions. Please stop posting with incorrect info.

Your idea that someone should stop creating 1vs1 games because they draw in new recruits too often and thus are farming is ludicrous (barring invitations to those new recruits, of course). Frankly, the only thing "clear" about this report is that Alstergren is blatantly trying to find out just how much he can abuse the system and get away with it.

Symmetry wrote:

king achilles wrote:I can still see mixed opponents from NR's to veteran players coming from these 1vs1 Poison Rome games he creates. He does not drop the games when a veteran player joins. If you see him inviting new recruits, please do provide them. He is also mixing his games with different maps. There are not enough new recruits in his collection of opponents since he is making 2 player games. It is going to take a lot of more games for him to collect many NR opponents in this style. Is Poison Rome even a complicated map? I also take into consideration if the map and settings are quite complicated for a new recruit to understand. If they are simple enough, then the new recruit has a fair chance to play and win.

king sam wrote:Alstergren I outlined your own statements that make this a spurious report, which was the reason the other thread was locked. Your not making a report to the C&A Team to bring to the communities attention of a violation of the rules, instead your going through game finder to find users who's games have some sort of suspect in them with games with new recruits that you think will be Cleared. Your searching for a ruling that will bless you to systematically play New Recruits. Don't you get it yet ? Your creating a pattern history to go against you regardless if admin Clears whatever case you get Cleared. Cause at that point in time you will adopt their methods in the hopes of playing a lot of games against NR's.

The problem with that is your intentions are to get games with them when the average joe's intentions are to just enjoy themselves and play games. That is the systematically targeting part that you just arent going to get away from.

The farming rules are there to maintain integrity in the score board as well as make sure everyone is having an enjoyable time here. Quit trying to push the envelope, man up and play games against someone who has played more then 10 or kick rocks.

KS

This. I can't help but suspect that you are looking for something in order for you to continuously play new recruits in particular. Again, this constant reports of trying to find ways to play NR has got to stop.

And honestly, if this were a less well-established player there would be a "noted" or a "warning" in place now.

Indeed. Alstergren appears to have nine lives. I wonder why that is...

king achilles wrote:Twin Killer, keep your NR opponents in check.

Yes Twin Killer, you need to make certain that NRs do not join your 1-vs-1 games. Now how you're supposed to DO that...well, that's irrelevant!

Seriously, KA...did you even think about this?

Woodruff wrote:

Bruceswar wrote:For all you speculating on this case. It is a very simple and shut case. CC sees this as farming. Just as you joining games vs new recruits. Creating games that attract new recruits is the same thing. You will be told not to make so many of the same type of games. Use other maps / settings instead. Or not to make so many that new recruits join so much. There is no way to defend these actions. Please stop posting with incorrect info.

Your idea that someone should stop creating 1vs1 games because they draw in new recruits too often and thus are farming is ludicrous (barring invitations to those new recruits, of course). Frankly, the only thing "clear" about this report is that Alstergren is blatantly trying to find out just how much he can abuse the system and get away with it.

You have been around long enough to know the rules on things. Lets not try to bend the rules because of the OP. This is no different than 5 man games with ?'s all over them.

Bruceswar wrote:This is no different than 5 man games with ?'s all over them.

I still disagree with this statement, how can you compare 1v1's to 5 man games. I think KA's answer is fair and enough considering, however where you recommend that a more limited number of games are created in a batch maybe its an idea to provide some guidelines?

[quote=Bruceswar]You have been around long enough to know the rules on things. Lets not try to bend the rules because of the OP. This is no different than 5 man games with ?'s all over them.[/quote]

This is in fact very different. In 1v1 there's always a risk the dice or drop let you down and you lose a lot of points (in TK's case about 50), while if he wins he gets about 6. Yet in a 5-way multiplayer with lots of NRs there is still the chance the dice let you down, but by comparison you'd lose way less points (50 against 6x5=30).
Poison rome may be complex, but it's not that complex to make sure that you win a lot more than 9/10 1v1s. And if you can't make sure you make any profit by playing 1v1s against NRs, how is this farming?

Woodruff wrote:Yes Twin Killer, you need to make certain that NRs do not join your 1-vs-1 games. Now how you're supposed to DO that...well, that's irrelevant!

Seriously, KA...did you even think about this?

As far as I can see, Twin Killer has three possible ways to avoid NRs in his 1v1 games. The first option is to switch to a map that can't be joined by New Recruits. The second option is to start sending invites to players who are interested in these maps and settings, possibly through the callouts forum. The third option he has available is to join games on this map and settings second, when it's not a New Recruit who started the game.

mr. CD wrote:

Bruceswar wrote:You have been around long enough to know the rules on things. Lets not try to bend the rules because of the OP. This is no different than 5 man games with ?'s all over them.

This is in fact very different. In 1v1 there's always a risk the dice or drop let you down and you lose a lot of points (in TK's case about 50), while if he wins he gets about 6. Yet in a 5-way multiplayer with lots of NRs there is still the chance the dice let you down, but by comparison you'd lose way less points (50 against 6x5=30).
Poison rome may be complex, but it's not that complex to make sure that you win a lot more than 9/10 1v1s. And if you can't make sure you make any profit by playing 1v1s against NRs, how is this farming?

Poison rome is complex to 99.5% of CC. New Recruits stand no chance on it. The point is not about the map but the % of new recruits playing in his games. Does not matter what the map or settings are but that so many new recruits are joining. There is no risk. He has a 91% win rate and up over 3000 points on this map with 2 player games. Tell me the risk in that? Common sense tells you that if you make 50 games of the same map / settings and you get a bunch of new recruits it is likely a good idea not to make so many next time or something different so you not in C&A accused of farming. Cases in the past have set standard already on things like this. In the past they have ruled these types of cases as farming.

Bruceswar wrote:Poison rome is complex to 99.5% of CC. New Recruits stand no chance on it. The point is not about the map but the % of new recruits playing in his games. Does not matter what the map or settings are but that so many new recruits are joining. There is no risk. He has a 91% win rate and up over 3000 points on this map with 2 player games. Tell me the risk in that? Common sense tells you that if you make 50 games of the same map / settings and you get a bunch of new recruits it is likely a good idea not to make so many next time or something different so you not in C&A accused of farming. Cases in the past have set standard already on things like this. In the past they have ruled these types of cases as farming.

I agree poisen rome is complex to a new recruit. So why do we allow they to play it? Is there any likelyhood in this getting added to the banned list for new recruits or not really?

Also what if TK was to post in the callouts section, as Michel said, asking for 1 and all to join his games? Surely that would keep him in the clear of these accusations and allow him to keep playing what he likes?

The whole concept of getting punished for something which you have no control over is frankly kind of absurd.

This whole farming witch hunt has gone too far, IMO. Rulings are inconsistent and no one knows for sure if they're breaking a rule or not. Everyone seems to have their own opinion about who is breaking the rules, and what the rules should or should not say...

natty dread wrote:The whole concept of getting punished for something which you have no control over is frankly kind of absurd.

This whole farming witch hunt has gone too far, IMO. Rulings are inconsistent and no one knows for sure if they're breaking a rule or not. Everyone seems to have their own opinion about who is breaking the rules, and what the rules should or should not say...

Your 100% right, I think what glg is doing is worse than having NR's JOIN your 1v1 games. At least he is not actively recruiting them to join they are doing it of their own free will.

What a joke--now you can't create public games because question marks might join too much. CC is a joke with this ruling.

Just get rid of the pathetic point system--then you don't have to worry about the pathetic rules and rulings.

I have been wanting to quit and walk away for a long time now--this just helps make that easier.


Anyone with common sense knows how much of a joke this is. Problem is half the world is clueless without common sense.

Sorry TK

natty dread wrote:This whole farming witch hunt has gone too far, IMO. Rulings are inconsistent and no one knows for sure if they're breaking a rule or not. Everyone seems to have their own opinion about who is breaking the rules, and what the rules should or should not say...

I agree, it's inconsistent and sometimes ridiculous. Think it would make sense to frame the rule clearer since it's impossible to predict the outcome, and much of it seems to depend on how much people are whining in the forum.

king achilles wrote:I can still see mixed opponents from NR's to veteran players coming from these 1vs1 Poison Rome games he creates. He does not drop the games when a veteran player joins. If you see him inviting new recruits, please do provide them. He is also mixing his games with different maps. There are not enough new recruits in his collection of opponents since he is making 2 player games. It is going to take a lot of more games for him to collect many NR opponents in this style. Is Poison Rome even a complicated map? I also take into consideration if the map and settings are quite complicated for a new recruit to understand. If they are simple enough, then the new recruit has a fair chance to play and win.

I don't understand how someone could drop a 1v1 player game when a veteran player joins. Frankly, I think if CC is concerned about NRs joining 1v1 Poisone Rome games, it should just remove the map from then (as has been done with other maps) and not ask paying members to be careful setting up these games. EDIT: But this has been considered farming in the past, so not surprised of the outcome.

king achilles wrote:This. I can't help but suspect that you are looking for something in order for you to continuously play new recruits in particular. Again, this constant reports of trying to find ways to play NR has got to stop.

You have no sense of humour. Apologies for being sarcastic when writing these two threads. But it shouldn't matter. The rules are the rules no matter what I think or how I frame it, you have the facts. These two reports are serious. What I can tell, both these matters could very well be considered "NR farming" judging from what you have said in the past. This one, where a player continuously sets up games with a 70% chance of getting a NR, and the other one where a player obviously goes after a high share of NRs (30-40%) when playing 1v1 games (adding up to 8% of total game count). It seems to me that it both could very well be considered to be "systematic" due to what you have said in the past. But I'm glad that you clarified the rule a little bit.

I don't get this, the guy pays $25 a year to use this site but the mods are now telling him that he can't play whatever setting he likes? BS.

If NR join his games it's not his fault, if there's a problem with NR joining the map then block them from joining the map - don't take it out on the people who support the site.

SimplyObsessed wrote:I don't get this, the guy pays $25 a year to use this site but the mods are now telling him that he can't play whatever setting he likes? BS.

If NR join his games it's not his fault, if there's a problem with NR joining the map then block them from joining the map - don't take it out on the people who support the site.

Totally agreed, the accused has asked admin to block NR's so they should just do it. The owner of the site who presumably gives the mods direction, KA who leads this forum and again who gives direction have lost all sense of reality and morals. Basically clueless

Bruceswar wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

Bruceswar wrote:For all you speculating on this case. It is a very simple and shut case. CC sees this as farming. Just as you joining games vs new recruits. Creating games that attract new recruits is the same thing. You will be told not to make so many of the same type of games. Use other maps / settings instead. Or not to make so many that new recruits join so much. There is no way to defend these actions. Please stop posting with incorrect info.

Your idea that someone should stop creating 1vs1 games because they draw in new recruits too often and thus are farming is ludicrous (barring invitations to those new recruits, of course). Frankly, the only thing "clear" about this report is that Alstergren is blatantly trying to find out just how much he can abuse the system and get away with it.

You have been around long enough to know the rules on things. Lets not try to bend the rules because of the OP. This is no different than 5 man games with ?'s all over them.

It absolutely IS different than 5-man games. 5-man games can be changed to being 6-man games without really changing the concept of the game very much. You believe that 2-man games should be changed to 6-man games? Seriously?

Again, this makes zero sense.

MichelSableheart wrote:

Woodruff wrote:Yes Twin Killer, you need to make certain that NRs do not join your 1-vs-1 games. Now how you're supposed to DO that...well, that's irrelevant!

Seriously, KA...did you even think about this?

As far as I can see, Twin Killer has three possible ways to avoid NRs in his 1v1 games. The first option is to switch to a map that can't be joined by New Recruits. The second option is to start sending invites to players who are interested in these maps and settings, possibly through the callouts forum. The third option he has available is to join games on this map and settings second, when it's not a New Recruit who started the game.

The Poison Rome map really shouldn't be available to NRs anyway, in my opinion.

natty dread wrote:The whole concept of getting punished for something which you have no control over is frankly kind of absurd.

Not "kind of absurd"...absolutely absurd. The idea that someone is responsible for someone else's actions (the NRs joining their games) to the point of punishment is ridiculous.

Woodruff wrote:

natty dread wrote:The whole concept of getting punished for something which you have no control over is frankly kind of absurd.

Not "kind of absurd"...absolutely absurd.

Creating a bunch of games that have an established history of attracting a large % of new recruits and continuing to create them is a perfect example of systematic farming and absolutely proves intent.