Conquer Club

none of this crap has ever made sense to me (no offense to anyone who this does make sense to). If you set up games, and don't invite NR's, and they join... what the heck is the problem. i used to set up 1v1's all the time. sometimes you'd get good players, a lot of times you'd get question marks... was i farming? NO. hell, i didn't even know what the term meant. besides, a lot of these players in multi player games crash into you and suicide almost as often as they end up easy points. As long as people don't invite noobs (which goes on a lot, much of the time with some of the "best players" on this site) i don't know how or if you should legislate anything.

rhp 1 wrote:none of this crap has ever made sense to me (no offense to anyone who this does make sense to). If you set up games, and don't invite NR's, and they join... what the heck is the problem. i used to set up 1v1's all the time. sometimes you'd get good players, a lot of times you'd get question marks... was i farming? NO. hell, i didn't even know what the term meant. besides, a lot of these players in multi player games crash into you and suicide almost as often as they end up easy points. As long as people don't invite noobs (which goes on a lot, much of the time with some of the "best players" on this site) i don't know how or if you should legislate anything.

Because some people have used this to raise their score in the past. They noticed that NR's were only joining certain games, and CONSTANTLY set these games up. He was hovering at Lieut/Captain, then we managed to jump all the way up to Brigadier just by playing these games. He had over 250~ games that were against 4 NR's who mostly deadbeated. Do you really think that his score was reflecting his skill? Is there skill in waiting for 3 rounds for 4 NR's to deadbeat?

TheForgivenOne wrote:

rhp 1 wrote:none of this crap has ever made sense to me (no offense to anyone who this does make sense to). If you set up games, and don't invite NR's, and they join... what the heck is the problem. i used to set up 1v1's all the time. sometimes you'd get good players, a lot of times you'd get question marks... was i farming? NO. hell, i didn't even know what the term meant. besides, a lot of these players in multi player games crash into you and suicide almost as often as they end up easy points. As long as people don't invite noobs (which goes on a lot, much of the time with some of the "best players" on this site) i don't know how or if you should legislate anything.

Because some people have used this to raise their score in the past. They noticed that NR's were only joining certain games, and CONSTANTLY set these games up. He was hovering at Lieut/Captain, then we managed to jump all the way up to Brigadier just by playing these games. He had over 250~ games that were against 4 NR's who mostly deadbeated. Do you really think that his score was reflecting his skill? Is there skill in waiting for 3 rounds for 4 NR's to deadbeat?

Since when did ones score reflect ones skill? I mean I've been colonel without being very selective in my games but if someone plays against me now he'll think I have the skill level of a serg. Using manipulation of ones score as a reason as to why it's banned is not good enough. Everyone high up in the scoreboard are selective in which games they play. Some only play games on a single map. The only valid reason as to why this should not be allowed is that it's not fair against the unsuspecting newbies!

Gillipig wrote:Since when did ones score reflect ones skill? I mean I've been colonel without being very selective in my games but if someone plays against me now he'll think I have the skill level of a serg. Using manipulation of ones score as a reason as to why it's banned is not good enough. Everyone high up in the scoreboard are selective in which games they play. Some only play games on a single map. The only valid reason as to why this should not be allowed is that it's not fair against the unsuspecting newbies!

Gillipig you have literally responded to what you are asking say you have 8 3000+ in 1 game, one of these players has only got his points via playing new recruits. that player then stops doing it his point mark is gonna drop. so if he wins the 8 player game he will get way more points than what he deserves because he should not of been in that skill level game.

eddie2 wrote:

Gillipig wrote:Since when did ones score reflect ones skill? I mean I've been colonel without being very selective in my games but if someone plays against me now he'll think I have the skill level of a serg. Using manipulation of ones score as a reason as to why it's banned is not good enough. Everyone high up in the scoreboard are selective in which games they play. Some only play games on a single map. The only valid reason as to why this should not be allowed is that it's not fair against the unsuspecting newbies!

Gillipig you have literally responded to what you are asking say you have 8 3000+ in 1 game, one of these players has only got his points via playing new recruits. that player then stops doing it his point mark is gonna drop. so if he wins the 8 player game he will get way more points than what he deserves because he should not of been in that skill level game.

Sounds like more of a problem with the point algorithm than unfairness to me.

this is a very puzzling puzzle,

surely this is all based on if the mods believe the player in question is making the 'game type' to attract NR's or if they are his preffered game type,

on one side i can see it from the players point of view,

if i like this game type and i am good on it then i will play it, there are no rules stopping me creating 100, 24hour american civil war, standard, fog, chained/ blah blah, BUT if this game attracts a bucket load of Brigadiers nothing would be said, on the other hand it actually attracts new recruits and therefor i am being chastised and forbidden to create my faviourite game because of an unwritten rule which is actually written as it is being enforced.

So if it is considered Farming to Create a certain game and action may be taken,

Then why isn't it considered farming to create private freestyle games on obscure maps and invite only lower ranks than officer????? as the person sitting 3rd on the leader board is doing this on a daily basis and is how he has gotten his rank, it does not show his skill as he only invites low ranked and low win percentaging players.

gibbyrfc wrote:Then why isn't it considered farming to create private freestyle games on obscure maps and invite only lower ranks than officer????? as the person sitting 3rd on the leader board is doing this on a daily basis and is how he has gotten his rank, it does not show his skill as he only invites low ranked and low win percentaging players.

Most players high up on the scoreboard have done that and many are still doing it. It's an effective way of earning points because you do not only chose the map and the settings you also chose who you play. So you can chose to never play anyone who's played a game on said map. But as long as they are targeting players of a certain skill level I don't think it should be banned. You shouldn't target newbies because they are new to the site and need to be protected. But you can't say a lieutenant who's played 500+ games (but never a game on said map) needs to be protected. He knows he probably won't win the game before he joins. But he figures the points lost will be so few that it won't matter much. He'll get to play a good player and hopes to learn a thing or two through playing against him. There needs to be a line drawn between immoral and illegal. A general who systematically PM's newbies game invites = illegal, A general who systematically PM's lieutenants game invites = immoral. At least that's the way I think of it. Systematically create games that attract newbies is a hard one though. CC has chosen the fairly odd route of billing it as immoral but punishing it as illegal. Something I'm not okay with.

Gillipig wrote:A general who systematically PM's newbies game invites = illegal

False. It's immoral. Certain players do this, and everyone is aware of this.

QoH wrote:

Gillipig wrote:A general who systematically PM's newbies game invites = illegal

False. It's immoral. Certain players do this, and everyone is aware of this.

Do you think this should be allowed? Because immoral in this sentence meant "bad but not punishable", while illegal was the term I used for punishable actions. It's probably hard to follow .

Gillipig wrote:

QoH wrote:

Gillipig wrote:A general who systematically PM's newbies game invites = illegal

False. It's immoral. Certain players do this, and everyone is aware of this.

Do you think this should be allowed? Because immoral in this sentence meant "bad but not punishable", while illegal was the term I used for punishable actions. It's probably hard to follow .

Where there are "unwritten" rules immoral is just as bad

gibbyrfc wrote:Then why isn't it considered farming to create private freestyle games on obscure maps and invite only lower ranks than officer????? as the person sitting 3rd on the leader board is doing this on a daily basis and is how he has gotten his rank, it does not show his skill as he only invites low ranked and low win percentaging players.

Unwritten Rules
Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits


As per the CC rules, I would consider it to a gross abuse of the game. As such, he should be dealt with accodingly.

Evolution299 wrote:

gibbyrfc wrote:Then why isn't it considered farming to create private freestyle games on obscure maps and invite only lower ranks than officer????? as the person sitting 3rd on the leader board is doing this on a daily basis and is how he has gotten his rank, it does not show his skill as he only invites low ranked and low win percentaging players.

Unwritten Rules
Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits


As per the CC rules, I would consider it to a gross abuse of the game. As such, he should be dealt with accodingly.

Not rules, unwritten rules. Unwritten rules are not supposed to be enforced just serve as guidelines.

Gillipig wrote:

Evolution299 wrote:

gibbyrfc wrote:Then why isn't it considered farming to create private freestyle games on obscure maps and invite only lower ranks than officer????? as the person sitting 3rd on the leader board is doing this on a daily basis and is how he has gotten his rank, it does not show his skill as he only invites low ranked and low win percentaging players.

Unwritten Rules
Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits


As per the CC rules, I would consider it to a gross abuse of the game. As such, he should be dealt with accodingly.

Not rules, unwritten rules. Unwritten rules are not supposed to be enforced just serve as guidelines.

Plenty of people have been given "vacations" for violating the unwritten rules, that is there so if someone abuses the game they can be dealt with accordingly.

No point in calling them unwritten if they're 1: written, 2: in every way dealt with in the same way as the written ones.

Gillipig wrote:No point in calling them unwritten if they're 1: written, 2: in every way dealt with in the same way as the written ones.

Agreed, but such is the way this place works. This has been around for awile now, I have seen 5 or 6 other issues come and go, any chance we could get a ruling or some guidance on the topic from someone that isn't speculating?

s3x

Agreed. Once it's been written it can no longer be considered an "unwritten rule"

if someone has been punished for an unwritten rule,that would say it is now written unless only certain players are going to be punished and others allowed to continue depending on who they are. That would be the only reason I would think that it would still be unwritten.so if we are to be punished for our favorite games then i would say same thing applies at any rank that does something considered immoral.

Gillipig wrote:

Evolution299 wrote:

gibbyrfc wrote:Then why isn't it considered farming to create private freestyle games on obscure maps and invite only lower ranks than officer????? as the person sitting 3rd on the leader board is doing this on a daily basis and is how he has gotten his rank, it does not show his skill as he only invites low ranked and low win percentaging players.

Unwritten Rules
Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits


As per the CC rules, I would consider it to a gross abuse of the game. As such, he should be dealt with accodingly.

Not rules, unwritten rules. Unwritten rules are not supposed to be enforced just serve as guidelines.

sounds like you're saying the things listed as "Unrwritten rules" shouldn't be punished for

No forgiven I think that what he might be saying is that if it is unwritten then everyone gets punished for doing something considered immoral. Inviting new recruits into your game is unwritten immoral farming.systematic farming of anyone no matter your rank is unwritten immoral farming

TheForgivenOne wrote:

Gillipig wrote:

Evolution299 wrote:

gibbyrfc wrote:Then why isn't it considered farming to create private freestyle games on obscure maps and invite only lower ranks than officer????? as the person sitting 3rd on the leader board is doing this on a daily basis and is how he has gotten his rank, it does not show his skill as he only invites low ranked and low win percentaging players.

Unwritten Rules
Obviously any gross abuse of the game is forbidden. This includes but is not limited to: throwing games or deliberately benefiting from thrown games, intentional deadbeating, holding players hostage, serial teammate killing, hijacking accounts, systematically "farming" new recruits


As per the CC rules, I would consider it to a gross abuse of the game. As such, he should be dealt with accodingly.

Not rules, unwritten rules. Unwritten rules are not supposed to be enforced just serve as guidelines.

sounds like you're saying the things listed as "Unrwritten rules" shouldn't be punished for

This is what I think.

Gillipig wrote:

gibbyrfc wrote:Then why isn't it considered farming to create private freestyle games on obscure maps and invite only lower ranks than officer????? as the person sitting 3rd on the leader board is doing this on a daily basis and is how he has gotten his rank, it does not show his skill as he only invites low ranked and low win percentaging players.

Most players high up on the scoreboard have done that and many are still doing it. It's an effective way of earning points because you do not only chose the map and the settings you also chose who you play. So you can chose to never play anyone who's played a game on said map. But as long as they are targeting players of a certain skill level I don't think it should be banned. You shouldn't target newbies because they are new to the site and need to be protected. But you can't say a lieutenant who's played 500+ games (but never a game on said map) needs to be protected. He knows he probably won't win the game before he joins. But he figures the points lost will be so few that it won't matter much. He'll get to play a good player and hopes to learn a thing or two through playing against him. There needs to be a line drawn between immoral and illegal. A general who systematically PM's newbies game invites = illegal, A general who systematically PM's lieutenants game invites = immoral. At least that's the way I think of it. Systematically create games that attract newbies is a hard one though. CC has chosen the fairly odd route of billing it as immoral but punishing it as illegal. Something I'm not okay with.

In the post you're refering to I'm trying to express my dislike with calling something unwritten if it's acted upon as a written rule. Make targeting newbies banned by a written rule and I'll be happy.

Gillipig wrote:No point in calling them unwritten if they're 1: written, 2: in every way dealt with in the same way as the written ones.

The term "unwritten" is just a bad choice of wording, that's all. Everybody knows that they're written.

I think what they were aiming at is something like the distinction between statutory law and common law.

What have they done in the past for situations like this?

s3xt0y wrote:What have they done in the past for situations like this?

Mixed outcomes. Sometimes actions are taken sometimes they're not. I think a lot depends on if the player only plays these types of games. And have done so for quite some time.

Gillipig wrote:

s3xt0y wrote:What have they done in the past for situations like this?

Mixed outcomes. Sometimes actions are taken sometimes they're not. I think a lot depends on if the player only plays these types of games. And have done so for quite some time.

Well this is a mixed bag...so if he continues to do this it would be considered ok...but if I went and made 50 Europe 5 player games I would get a spanking?

s3xt0y wrote:

Gillipig wrote:

s3xt0y wrote:What have they done in the past for situations like this?

Mixed outcomes. Sometimes actions are taken sometimes they're not. I think a lot depends on if the player only plays these types of games. And have done so for quite some time.

Well this is a mixed bag...so if he continues to do this it would be considered ok...but if I went and made 50 Europe 5 player games I would get a spanking?

If you created 50 games like this it would be very obvious that you targeted newbies! I think intention is the key here. CC doesn't want to be a control freak and tell people who just like to play certain games that they can't do so. But they also don't want people to get away with farming newbies. This guy pedro nunes has almost only played on two maps. Europe and World 2.1. Based on that I'd say he just like these maps and is not targeting newbies. But I understand what you mean.