[Idea] New 'Feudal' map

[gimil]

Thanks victor, I shall copy that to page one.

[zimmah]

another possible new feature could be a reseting neutral on the kingdoms entry point.

If I do go with the gate idea, I was thinking that once it is knocked down, its gone!

Would there be a way to have it start on the field as one value, then once you own it, have it reset to another? Starting out at the traditional 10 then turning into a 4 or something would be ok with me. If there's a winter theme, it would keep out the draft

-rd

Actually that may be possible. But I am not 100% sure!

If you mean that the gate starts with 10 neutrals, and then whenever someone owns it, at the end of the turn it will kill al troops on it, and puts 4 neutrals in place, yes, that's definitly possible. It will permanently remove all troops on it from the rest of the game and place 4 neutral on it in that case.


i very much like the idea of this map, and i'm willing to support in every way

[anonymus]

im no regular in these dark parts of the forums, but i have a couple of 1000 games on feudal war and in my mind what makes it great (as opposed to feudal epic) is the ability to read it once you know it well enough.. in fog being able to say ok i KNOW this dude is in rom because the first 3 rounds he took 1 terr per round then bombarded then took 4 terr and now he gets +5+3 THAT is what feudal is all about for me, and why feudal epic never attracted me (since same number of steps to villages from all castles..

maybe this is something to think about in the map-design.. small differences in bonuses between the kingdoms like aor or small differences in terr taken to get to a bonus like in feudal..

just my 5 cents, but i think most people sold on conquest-maps are so due to the elimination of drop in the luck-part of the equation and the huge gain if you know your strategies and have the patience/experience to read the gamelog in the fog..

/

[gimil]

im no regular in these dark parts of the forums, but i have a couple of 1000 games on feudal war and in my mind what makes it great (as opposed to feudal epic) is the ability to read it once you know it well enough.. in fog being able to say ok i KNOW this dude is in rom because the first 3 rounds he took 1 terr per round then bombarded then took 4 terr and now he gets +5+3 THAT is what feudal is all about for me, and why feudal epic never attracted me (since same number of steps to villages from all castles..

maybe this is something to think about in the map-design.. small differences in bonuses between the kingdoms like aor or small differences in terr taken to get to a bonus like in feudal..

just my 5 cents, but i think most people sold on conquest-maps are so due to the elimination of drop in the luck-part of the equation and the huge gain if you know your strategies and have the patience/experience to read the gamelog in the fog..

/

You bring up a very good point about the gameplay. I aim to make this version of the map alot more fluid than its predecessors. Balanced without being symmetrical. I am going to try and make all the castle more accessible to each other rather than having the drop forcing people to fight each other from the start.

[gimil]

Ok, so with what has been discussed so far I think I am going to go with the following mix for the next feudal map.

[*]Single entrance to castle protected by a neutral 'gate'.
[*]Players start with their whole kingdom.
[*]Losing condition: if you do not own a castle you are eliminated from the game.

This combination allows people to advance early on, rather than trying to nab their kingdom early on while having dice dictate their early progression. With a neutral gate defending the kingdom then people should be encouraged to explore early on. But most importantly since you start with your kingdom and have the same level of basic defence, strategy should play a larger part in overall gameplay. If you loose your castle it is likely your own fault. Oh, and also if you key to siege another players castle you create a strategy around taking someone's castles to eliminate them rather than the traditional take all of someone's terr to eliminate them.

Another thought on villages, I was thinking that perhaps if there were very few villages (like 3 or 4, between 12 castles) it means that those who get to the villages first do not automatically gain the balance of power. What do you all think?

[DiM]

i think it's time you put pen to paper and gave us an early draft to see what you're planning

[zimmah]

I also like the tower idea and hope you implement it, you can either add towers inside or behind the walls, or in the field at strategic locations. Would be nice to be able to bombard with them, but being unable to attack at close range (say for example they can hit 3-4 tiles away, but not hit the tiles directly adjacent.)

also, adding some kind of siege units that could aid taking opponents kingdoms would be a great feature to add. In order to keep the castles 'defendable' though they should not become too overpowered, so maybe you can have an inner castle and an 'outer' castle like many old castles have. The inner castle area is basicly a wall within a wall, and that's like the stronghold, while the area around it is usually walled (and surrounded with water) as well, and has usually houses or gardens in it (or both).

a bit like this [bigimg]http://www.planetware.com/i/map/JPN/nijo-castle-map.jpg[/bigimg]

siege engines could for example work like towers (have a long range bombard, but unable to defend from close range) or like battering rams/assualt towers that can one-way attack a wall.

I don't know if those suggestions would be in line of your idea's tho.

Archers would also be a nice option for either offense or defense, and might act as a counter-measure to siege units.

[Fewnix]

I love your Feudal maps and look forward to a new one.Thank you very much for all you have done and will do.

How about using composite bonuses, like the system used in Napoleonic Europe? In that map, if you hold a capital such as Berlin you get an auto-deploy, If you hold Berlin and certain other territories (West and East Prussia, Silesia ) you get a z bonus to manually deploy for holding Prussia, and if you hold the Prussian bonus and the Poland bonus you get a composite bonus to manually deploy.

In Feudal Epic if you hold a castle such as Rebel you get a 5 auto -deploy and can bombard all rebel territories as well as assault adjacent territories. ff you hold Rebel territories plus the castle you get a manual deploy bonus. If you hold the nearby G;ah village you get a 3 auto -deploy. And if you hold an adjacent castle Warlords you get a 5 auto deploy there and can bombard warlord territories, assault adjacent territories, and get a zone bonus for holding Warlords territories plus the castle.

So my suggestion is that in the new Feudal map if you hold two adjoining castles and the village you get not only the two auto deploys of 5 on the castles and 3 auto deploy on the village and the manual deploys for the castle territories and the tert bonus, but also composite bonus to manually deploy, say 5 more armies.

Under the current Feudal Epic map there would be 4 of these composite bonuses possible and a player who holds such a composite bonus (close to a 1/4 of the map) would be in a strong position to attack other territories and get stronger. Holding two of these composite bonuses, 4 castles, two villages, lots of terts (about 1/2 the map) would make a really really strong player Of course other players,apart from going for their own composite bonus, would try to deny the competition composite bonuses and one successful strategic attack would mean a serious setback.And it is not easy to hold on to two castles and a village.

To fine tune this suggestion how about increasing the number of castles in the new map to 12 and the number of villages to 6? giving 5 composite bonuses possible? This allows for the possible expansion to a 12 player game and gives different combinations possible for lesser numbers of players- 1v1 and 3 players could be 4 castles each ( or a lesser number with neutrals) , 4 players 3 each or a lesser number with neutrals, 6 players 2 and 8 players one with 4 neutral.

[gimil]

Thank Zimmah for your input but your suggests are just a little to far from the way Feudal should be. The beaut (I think) of feudal is that for a non-classic map it remains surprising simply to play. Having few rules, with all the rules easy to follow and understand. Your suggestions seem to step over that line I don't want to cross, sorry.

I actually also like the tower idea but now that I have started dabbling with the design I could not find a way to implement the idea so that it works fairly.

[gimil]

Fewnix, I like what you are saying about a new bonus system. However I was planning on making gameplay on the new map a little more fluid rather than structured towards forcing two specific castles to fight each other early on. In order to achieve this rather than a ratio off 2:1 castles/villages I might decrease this to 3:1 or 4:1, in order to put more people into a position to fight each other. Is this something that would interest you?

I will put your 'composite bonus' idea on the back burner and see if I can integrate it into my map (and I was obviously have to check that other in general are interested in your idea) once I have a more complete draft map.

I love your Feudal maps and look forward to a new one.Thank you very much for all you have done and will do.

How about using composite bonuses, like the system used in Napoleonic Europe? In that map, if you hold a capital such as Berlin you get an auto-deploy, If you hold Berlin and certain other territories (West and East Prussia, Silesia ) you get a z bonus to manually deploy for holding Prussia, and if you hold the Prussian bonus and the Poland bonus you get a composite bonus to manually deploy.

In Feudal Epic if you hold a castle such as Rebel you get a 5 auto -deploy and can bombard all rebel territories as well as assault adjacent territories. ff you hold Rebel territories plus the castle you get a manual deploy bonus. If you hold the nearby G;ah village you get a 3 auto -deploy. And if you hold an adjacent castle Warlords you get a 5 auto deploy there and can bombard warlord territories, assault adjacent territories, and get a zone bonus for holding Warlords territories plus the castle.

So my suggestion is that in the new Feudal map if you hold two adjoining castles and the village you get not only the two auto deploys of 5 on the castles and 3 auto deploy on the village and the manual deploys for the castle territories and the tert bonus, but also composite bonus to manually deploy, say 5 more armies.

Under the current Feudal Epic map there would be 4 of these composite bonuses possible and a player who holds such a composite bonus (close to a 1/4 of the map) would be in a strong position to attack other territories and get stronger. Holding two of these composite bonuses, 4 castles, two villages, lots of terts (about 1/2 the map) would make a really really strong player Of course other players,apart from going for their own composite bonus, would try to deny the competition composite bonuses and one successful strategic attack would mean a serious setback.And it is not easy to hold on to two castles and a village.

To fine tune this suggestion how about increasing the number of castles in the new map to 12 and the number of villages to 6? giving 5 composite bonuses possible? This allows for the possible expansion to a 12 player game and gives different combinations possible for lesser numbers of players- 1v1 and 3 players could be 4 castles each ( or a lesser number with neutrals) , 4 players 3 each or a lesser number with neutrals, 6 players 2 and 8 players one with 4 neutral.

[cairnswk]

gimil, you have a great following with your feudal series.
I'm pleased that everyone is providing feedback for a new version.
I think that some different aspects like the tower, perhaps "gates" and one-way underground tunnels would make the differentiation from previous to new.
good luck with this new one.

[Fewnix]

You are the creator, while we are humble commentators who love your work and sing your praises. To help as much a I can, I think this is what you want to start with:

[*]Single entrance to castle protected by a neutral 'gate'.
[*]Players start with their whole kingdom.
[*]Losing condition: if you do not own a castle you are eliminated from the game.

You also seem interested in the tower idea, something like th cannon in Waterloo?. that allows the occupier to see and bombard a lot of territory

You may want to decrease the ratio of villages to castles from 1 village per two castles to one village to 3 or even 4 castles.

You may be interested in increasing the number of castles to t2.

You may be interested in some form of composite bonus. a la Napoleonic Europe.

Which suggests a larger map with more terts.

We are all happy to provide more input when you want it, but I humbly suggest you go with what you got and let us know if you need more.

[gimil]

Thanks for your input fewnix. Be sure I will let you know as soon as a draft is ready

[danfrank]

just reading briefly i like the idea of the gate with a one way border to release your troops on the world.. With that idea in mind .. how does FEUDAL FORTRESS sound...

[40kguy]

just reading briefly i like the idea of the gate with a one way border to release your troops on the world.. With that idea in mind .. how does FEUDAL FORTRESS sound...

Intence

[natty dread]

If you mean that the gate starts with 10 neutrals, and then whenever someone owns it, at the end of the turn it will kill al troops on it, and puts 4 neutrals in place, yes, that's definitly possible.

How?

[gimil]

just reading briefly i like the idea of the gate with a one way border to release your troops on the world.. With that idea in mind .. how does FEUDAL FORTRESS sound...

Love it.

[Sniper08]

any idea when you'll have a draft ready? not trying to rush you in any way but id like to see a visual of the map then maybe more idea will start to come to me.

[gimil]

any idea when you'll have a draft ready? not trying to rush you in any way but id like to see a visual of the map then maybe more idea will start to come to me.

yeah, I am working on it at the moment. May be a little while as it doesn't take a nights work to create a whole landscape!

[thenobodies80]

It took a while, but I've found it --> viewtopic.php?f=127&p=1240679#p1240679

Do you remember WM "Maze Craze" ?
We don't have that map excatly for the same reason.

[Victor Sullivan]

just reading briefly i like the idea of the gate with a one way border to release your troops on the world.. With that idea in mind .. how does FEUDAL FORTRESS sound...

Love it.

Sounds great The only issue I have with it is that it doesn't quite describe the map as a whole, merely the castle realms, if that makes sense. (Feudal War describes the setting of the map, in a sense, and Feudal Epic describes the vast amount of territory) Idk, maybe it's me just being picky, but I certainly wouldn't be upset with "Feudal Fortress", and besides, that doesn't necessarily need to be discussed now.

Anywho, looking forward to a draft!

-Sully

[greenoaks]

Fewnix, I like what you are saying about a new bonus system. However I was planning on making gameplay on the new map a little more fluid rather than structured towards forcing two specific castles to fight each other early on. In order to achieve this rather than a ratio off 2:1 castles/villages I might decrease this to 3:1 or 4:1, in order to put more people into a position to fight each other. Is this something that would interest you?

i think you should go the other way and add more villages. in reality castles where outnumbered by villages.

[OliverFA]

It's great to see that a new map in the Feudal series is under construction

[Sniper08]

idea dead gimil or are you still working on it?

[gimil]

idea dead gimil or are you still working on it?

Working on it. Finding it difficult to put together a full landscape. I want to move away from just a green play area like the other two maps Unfortunately this is all I have managed to do so far .

[bigimg]http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c64/Gimil_01/FeudalThrone.png[/bigimg]