Conquer Club

vtmarik wrote:I hate how everyone's trying to assign historical accuracy to dramatic license.

This particular movie, 300, is based on the graphic novel of the same name by Frank Miller, the man who brought us the graphic novel Sin City (and co-directed the film).

How about we evaluate its merits on the basis of drama and not turn this into some kind of history lesson about the governmental system of ancient Greek city-states. This film is not intended to be philosophically or politically accurate, it's meant to be historical fiction.

More Info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_%28comic_book%29
From the article: "300 is a graphic novel, written and illustrated by Frank Miller with painted colors by Lynn Varley. The comic loosely depicts the Battle of Thermopylae and the events leading up to it from the perspective of Leonidas I, king of Sparta."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Fiction


Thank you for your time.

P Gizzle wrote:it indeed was a great idea, but it looks like they are gonna make it fantasy-like, which ticks me off, cuz i wanted to see it like it happened irl....but w/e, i guess

vtmarik wrote:I hate how some people are trying to assign historical accuracy to dramatic license.

This particular movie, 300, is based on the graphic novel of the same name by Frank Miller, the man who brought us the graphic novel Sin City (and co-directed the film).

How about we evaluate its merits on the basis of drama and not turn this into some kind of history lesson about the governmental system of ancient Greek city-states. This film is not intended to be philosophically or politically accurate, it's meant to be historical fiction.

More Info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_%28comic_book%29
From the article: "300 is a graphic novel, written and illustrated by Frank Miller with painted colors by Lynn Varley. The comic loosely depicts the Battle of Thermopylae and the events leading up to it from the perspective of Leonidas I, king of Sparta."

The king of Sparta would certainly use terminology regarding freedom and liberty to motivate his people to battle. I have never once heard a speech where any leader started with the words "You're fighting to continue your own oppression."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Fiction


Thank you for your time.

btownmeggy wrote:I'm a historian. It's my job to hate ahistoricism... especially to such an intense degree as this movie seems to be. I hated Spartacus for pretty much all the same reasons that I think I might hate this movie.

I'm sure lots of people will enjoy it, and I'm certainly not criticizing anyone for not being the uptight person that I am.

btownmeggy wrote:

Jesse, Bad Boy wrote:

btownmeggy wrote:I become so enraged when I see this preview. It looks SO DUMB. And I think it's ridiculous how the movie apparently tries to portray the Spartans as a nation fighting for LIBERTY and FREEDOM, when they were one of the most totalitarian, militaristic societies to ever, ever exist.

Yeah, because the Persians came promising freedom and prosperity, as well as a democratically advanced republic.

Frankly, I think this is more of an uneducated response then any "pepulz will get killed, lulz". The Spartans were fighting for Liberty and Freedom, despite what you may think. If you've been put under the impression that Xerxes was on a liberation campaign, you've been misinformed.



Additionally, how were the Spartans totalitarian? The right to vote was afforded to men who served in the military (which was the norm of the time), and the king didn't have as much power as the democratically elected government.

I might find it similar to a movie celebrating Nazi Germany's struggle for LIBERTY and FREEDOM.

Yes, you might, if you have an asshole so tight that I could shove coal up there and pull out diamonds.

Add to that, your analogy is totally wrong. First, Nazi Germany held an expansionist policy that was supplemented by the Allies appeasement. Sparta, on the other hand, was a small city state with a tradition in military and for the most part lacked an expansionist policy. Second, as mentioned above, Ancient Sparta and Nazi Germany have two totally different political atmospheres. Nazi Germany was a total dictatorship with a history of atrocity, while the Spartans were a democratic military state. Granted, the only way you were guaranteed the right to vote is if you went through military training, but that was necessity at the time (if this isn't already obvious).

So while you're getting upset of possible ways it can be seen, you're not looking at it from an objective standpoint. If they didn't fight, thousands, perhaps millions would have been executed, tortured, and enslaved.

It looks visually interesting, I admit, but there's NO WAY I'll go see it.

Because, what, it might imply something that you don't agree with, or use dramatic license?

Oh, and CAPS LOCKS IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparta#Constitution

Here's some interesting quotes from the article:

"The Spartan government was by many standards considered totalitarian."

"kings' power was exercised in most aspects of Spartan life; military, religious, and judicial."

"Sparta was, above all, a militarist state"

"If found defective or weak, the baby was left on the wild slopes of Mt Taygetos."

"Spartan boys left home for military boarding school at the age of seven, and were required to serve in the army until age thirty."

"Spartan education from the ages of seven to thirty emphasised physical toughness, steadfastness in military ranks, and absolute obedience to orders."

"Spartans were absolutely debarred by law from trade or manufacture, which consequently rested in the hands of the perioeci, and were forbidden (in theory) to possess either gold or silver."

"Crypteia (or Krypteia) was an "adolescent death squad" made up of the most promising young Spartans. Their job was to roam the countryside killing Helots [slaves] at night in order to instill fear in the slave population and prevent rebellion."

Ancient Sparta was a society that was in NO WAY amenable to liberty or freedom.