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Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:09 am
by Ruben Cassar
Guiscard wrote:Ok. Marv I think your going a bit over the top but heres what i think about the borders and sea routes:
You could make Nofhinsar easier to hold. Definitely extend the unpassable border along the fontant / san lawrenz border and perhaps move the sea route to sannat not xlendi ( 3 territories / 1 or 2 border / bonus 2).
the trees are fine as they add a nice bottleneck making it interesting.
perhaps extent the Valletta border to encompass Paola so theres no access to the pink continent from the blue continent. Also I'd move the Paola / Luqa border along to be between Fgura and Zejtun. If you do this, however, you'll have to maybe adjust the pink bonus to be 3 as it will be 5 territories and 2 borders, plus the capital bonus of 1.
Maybe move the zebbug one to dingli as well. Zebbug is still a border country with an impassable border, but dingli would not be.
I'd get rid of the impassable at Mosta and perhaps boost the grey bonus up to 4.
The point people are trying to make (rather aggressivly, for some reason) is that it doesn't matter if impassables dont eliminate a country from being a border territory then they shouldn't be there. You're still going to have to leave a lot of men there to secure your territory whether theres 3, 2 or 1 neighbouring countries where people could attack from. This is something I've still got to perfect on my own map, and I hope I've been some help. I'm sure some of my suggestions are bollocks anyway.
Thanks Guiscard. That's the kind of constructive feedback I wanted. I will evaluate your suggestions for the next update version.
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 10:11 am
by Guiscard
Hard enough to understand?????? I explained the same thing, let me count... at least 4 times. Its still so difficult to understand? Why dont you try it by yourself? Because you dont want, you disliked it, but are still asking me to point EXACTLY what to do? My patience is over. But dont tell me I was being unpolite to you, I didnt attack anyone, unless Im attacked. So if you want etiquette classes, lets move the discussion to flame wars, this is not the place.
Please don't let this get into bickering.
I don't really understand what you mean - do you want lots of borders or less borders or what? Whatever you want, I think you might be making pretty unreasonable demands based on your own wishes rather than any real group consensus. He took your advice originally and made changes to the map. Why would he do this if he really doesn't want to listen and is 'attacking' you???
I feel like I should stick up for Cassar here as I really like this map and I think it needs only minor adjustments to make it brilliant.
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 11:22 am
by hulmey
me too. but im less polite so marv f*ck OFF...Borders should stay how they are as the people have VOTED
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 12:18 pm
by Marvaddin
hulmey wrote:me too. but im less polite so marv f*ck OFF...Borders should stay how they are as the people have VOTED
Well, looks like you are one of those that like to waste good chances to SHUT UP.
About the poll, my pea brained friend, that could be because the lack of one option, that would be REMOVE COMPLETELY the borders, hahahaha!!!
I will extend the invitation to you, hulmey: if you want etiquette classes, lets do it in flame wars FORUM. Otherwise, lets let Ruben continue his WORK. There you can show me how "less polite" you are, beyond an experienced member of the FOUNDRY. But dont flame me HERE.
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 5:18 pm
by AndyDufresne
Well jeez, everyone just needs to calm down. I see both sides.
Regarding the poll, I don't think you can always point to it Reuben, as Qeee1 pointed out, it's a stilted poll, as it assumes less impassable borders = more defensive.
Regarding Marv, I understand some of your fury, but not all maps are going to be similar to the classic. I know you like to see the Foundry produce the best maps, and you do have some good suggestions, but all maps are going to be different.
Anyways, back to the real map...
I'll comment more on the visuals and playability as I see when I've got some more time. Visually, it is looking better, and I'll take a look at your new impassable areas and other changes.
So, with that said. I'm going to make you two KISS and MAKE UP, and MAKE LOVE.
--Andy
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:20 pm
by Ruben Cassar
Version 4.15:
1. Added more impassable borders partially following suggestions made by Guiscard.
2. Added different graphics to impassable borders. A VERY big thanks to Keyogi for supplying me with some alternative graphics for the impassable borders.
Posted: Fri Jan 12, 2007 8:32 pm
by KEYOGI
I'm not so sure the hills work, maybe just stick with the mountains and trees. I also think that perhaps the mountains should be made a bit more dense in some places, mostly Port il-Kbir.
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:40 am
by Guiscard
Looking much better. I think you should adjust the bonus for Port il-Kbir, however, because now its only 2 borders, 5 territories (as well as the bonus for the capital). Maybe make it 3 or even 2.
Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2007 10:55 am
by Ruben Cassar
Guiscard wrote:Looking much better. I think you should adjust the bonus for Port il-Kbir, however, because now its only 2 borders, 5 territories (as well as the bonus for the capital). Maybe make it 3 or even 2.
Yes, I know. Now that the borders are changing the bonuses have to change as well. Once we definitively settle the borders issue and everyone is satisfied we can start changing the bonuses as well.
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:31 pm
by hulmey
rueben, i think u should have left it how its was or maybe add not as many borders. Now if you have gozo i feel you have won the game!!
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:36 pm
by hulmey
i would remove these 2 borders
1. San pawl ill bahar and mellieha unpassables
2. Kirkop and paola unpassables
Maybe you could then make a vote on which map people would most like to play!!! What do you think ANDY ?
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 5:00 pm
by Ruben Cassar
hulmey wrote:i would remove these 2 borders
1. San pawl ill bahar and unpassables
2. Kirkop and paola unpassables
Maybe you could then make a vote on which map people would most like to play!!! What do you think ANDY ?
Okay Hulmey your request has been noted. I will ask Andy to reset the poll and start a new one.
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:26 pm
by hulmey
this is just a idea....to solve a problem.
Make one map like you and quite a few others want it and another how the others want it.
Then make a poll, asking people to vote on the map THEY want to play
Its a constructive suggestion.
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:35 pm
by Ruben Cassar
hulmey wrote:this is just a idea....to solve a problem.
Make one map like you and quite a few others want it and another how the others want it.
Then make a poll, asking people to vote on the map THEY want to play
Its a constructive suggestion.
That's exactly what I will do. I will ask people to vote on the last 2 versions of the map.
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:14 pm
by qeee1
hulmey wrote:i would remove these 2 borders
1. San pawl ill bahar and mellieha unpassables
2. Kirkop and paola unpassables
Maybe you could then make a vote on which map people would most like to play!!! What do you think ANDY ?
I agree with 1 but not with 2, what's the logic to removing no. 2?
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:22 pm
by Ruben Cassar
qeee1 wrote:hulmey wrote:i would remove these 2 borders
1. San pawl ill bahar and mellieha unpassables
2. Kirkop and paola unpassables
Maybe you could then make a vote on which map people would most like to play!!! What do you think ANDY ?
I agree with 1 but not with 2, what's the logic to removing no. 2?
What? You would chop down all those beautiful trees!? Shame on both of you. I like to bask in the shade of my trees...I am not sure if I want to even think about cutting them! :p
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:39 pm
by Enigma
Ruben Cassar wrote:Guiscard wrote:Looking much better. I think you should adjust the bonus for Port il-Kbir, however, because now its only 2 borders, 5 territories (as well as the bonus for the capital). Maybe make it 3 or even 2.
Yes, I know. Now that the borders are changing the bonuses have to change as well. Once we definitively settle the borders issue and everyone is satisfied we can start changing the bonuses as well.
exactly what i was going to say. i like the borders. the larger amout of them make the map different, almost mazeish. nice border graphics. perhaps make all if the army circles uniform in colours- the lighter, transparent look? i wouldnt think it would matter if you cant see them very well, as in a game the numbers will show up just as well. also the circles will prob have to be bigger. but i know layout and not graphics is the main issue right now.
Posted: Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:26 pm
by sully800
This is a small suggestion, but easy to implement.
In your key, you have written:
"capital city bonus - 1" and "hold both land's end bonus - 2"
I think that if you would use a colon : instead of a dash - it would eliminate any confusion people have over whether those numbers are positive or negative. I don't know if that happened in this map but I've seen it a few times in the foundry when a map included dashes in that manner.
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:16 am
by Ruben Cassar
Enigma wrote:Ruben Cassar wrote:Guiscard wrote:Looking much better. I think you should adjust the bonus for Port il-Kbir, however, because now its only 2 borders, 5 territories (as well as the bonus for the capital). Maybe make it 3 or even 2.
Yes, I know. Now that the borders are changing the bonuses have to change as well. Once we definitively settle the borders issue and everyone is satisfied we can start changing the bonuses as well.
exactly what i was going to say. i like the borders. the larger amout of them make the map different, almost mazeish. nice border graphics. perhaps make all if the army circles uniform in colours- the lighter, transparent look? i wouldnt think it would matter if you cant see them very well, as in a game the numbers will show up just as well. also the circles will prob have to be bigger. but i know layout and not graphics is the main issue right now.
Thanks for your comments Enigma. I still have to check if the numbers fit in the army shadows. Does anyone know how I can do that right now?
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:18 am
by Ruben Cassar
sully800 wrote:This is a small suggestion, but easy to implement.
In your key, you have written:
"capital city bonus - 1" and "hold both land's end bonus - 2"
I think that if you would use a colon : instead of a dash - it would eliminate any confusion people have over whether those numbers are positive or negative. I don't know if that happened in this map but I've seen it a few times in the foundry when a map included dashes in that manner.
No one has come up with this issue before but I will implement your change. In fact I will include the colons and a + sign in front of the number as well to avoid confusion. Thanks.
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:20 am
by Ruben Cassar
Okay my previous poll closed at 62% in favour of not adding more borders. However some members said that the question was stilted. I have put up a new poll now so that people can vote which version of the map they prefer. Andy I am still waiting for your feedback as well.
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:24 am
by Lone.prophet
change place for "hold both lands end" and "helipad"
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:34 am
by Ruben Cassar
Lone.prophet wrote:change place for "hold both lands end" and "helipad"
Hmm, I think their location is okay. Those issues were discussed extensively before, and anyway it wouldn't be a land's end bonus if they weren't placed at the outer regions of the map.
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:39 am
by Lone.prophet
i mean in legenda
Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:49 am
by Ruben Cassar
Lone.prophet wrote:i mean in legenda
Hehe. How was I supposed to know you meant in the legend if you did not say so! :p Okay so if I am understanding you correctly you want me to swap the location of land's end bonus with helipad in the legend. I will do that in the next update of the map. Thanks for your feedback. Can you kindly vote in the new poll please?