Israel.... For or Against?

[heavycola]

More dead heretics. Always a good thing.

[gavin_sidhu]

I love your brutal honesty caleb. Hezbollah put up quite a fight, killed a large number of Israeli soldiers.

[jay_a2j]

I love your brutal honesty caleb. Hezbollah put up quite a fight, killed a large number of Israeli soldiers.

Lets be realistic, Israel could have wiped Lebanon off the map had they wanted too.

[gavin_sidhu]

I love your brutal honesty caleb. Hezbollah put up quite a fight, killed a large number of Israeli soldiers.

Lets be realistic, Israel could have wiped Lebanon off the map had they wanted too.

Lebanon maybe, not hezbollah. I think for every soldier that Hezbollah killed of Israel, Israel only killed 1.3 Hezbollah soldiers, not bad. Israel knew they would never win and that their populace would life in constant fear of rocket shelling (saying that, 700 lebanese civillians died in the war, only 150 Israeli civillians did. Not what you expect for a "terrorist" organisation) thats the only reason they signed the truce. For Israel it would have ended up much worse than the US has suffered in Iraq.

[jay_a2j]

I love your brutal honesty caleb. Hezbollah put up quite a fight, killed a large number of Israeli soldiers.

Lets be realistic, Israel could have wiped Lebanon off the map had they wanted too.

Lebanon maybe, not hezbollah. I think for every soldier that Hezbollah killed of Israel, Israel only killed 1.3 Hezbollah soldiers, not bad. Israel knew they would never win and that their populace would life in constant fear of rocket shelling (saying that, 700 lebanese civillians died in the war, only 150 Israeli civillians did. Not what you expect for a "terrorist" organisation) thats the only reason they signed the truce. For Israel it would have ended up much worse than the US has suffered in Iraq.

Why does it sound as if you are defending Hezbollah? It is not the Israelies using there own citizens as a "shield". You got Hezbollah setting up rocket launchers next to UN buildings, then when Israel takes them out (in defence of their own nation) Israel is condemed for killing UN peacekeepers. Give me a break. The UN is made up of mostly anti-semites and as long as Israel exists the UN will be useless as a peacekeeping organization. The US should withdraw from the UN and stop all funding they give to them.

[gavin_sidhu]

I love your brutal honesty caleb. Hezbollah put up quite a fight, killed a large number of Israeli soldiers.

Lets be realistic, Israel could have wiped Lebanon off the map had they wanted too.

Lebanon maybe, not hezbollah. I think for every soldier that Hezbollah killed of Israel, Israel only killed 1.3 Hezbollah soldiers, not bad. Israel knew they would never win and that their populace would life in constant fear of rocket shelling (saying that, 700 lebanese civillians died in the war, only 150 Israeli civillians did. Not what you expect for a "terrorist" organisation) thats the only reason they signed the truce. For Israel it would have ended up much worse than the US has suffered in Iraq.

Why does it sound as if you are defending Hezbollah? It is not the Israelies using there own citizens as a "shield". You got Hezbollah setting up rocket launchers next to UN buildings, then when Israel takes them out (in defence of their own nation) Israel is condemed for killing UN peacekeepers. Give me a break. The UN is made up of mostly anti-semites and as long as Israel exists the UN will be useless as a peacekeeping organization. The US should withdraw from the UN and stop all funding they give to them.

by no means do i support hezbollah. I have just said they put up a good fight, which they did. My statements are fact, if the facts look as if i am defending Hezbollah, i cant do anything to change that.

Hezbollah put up a good fight, killed many Israeli soldiers. They did a better job than the Iraqi government against the US.
Hezbollah killed less civillians than Israel.
Israel was having a tough time in Lebanon despite there weapon advangate.
Hezbollah started the war by capturing Israeli soldiers not killing civillians.

Why are you supporting Israel? Are you not a christian.


In this war i was neutral. I have no idea how to fix the middle east crisis, nd some times feel as Caleb the Cruel does, and believe maybe they should both just die (only because i cant see any other solution, they both seem intent on killing each other).

[jay_a2j]

Hezbollah put up a good fight, killed many Israeli soldiers. They did a better job than the Iraqi government against the US.
Hezbollah killed less civillians than Israel.
Israel was having a tough time in Lebanon despite there weapon advangate.
Hezbollah started the war by capturing Israeli soldiers not killing civillians.

Why are you supporting Israel? Are you not a christian.

Of coarse Israel killed more civilians! Hezbollah was launching attacks within the civilian population! That is a typical terrorist tactic. Using "innocent civilians" as a shield. I don't think moving 20 miles into Lebanon is "having a tough time" there. Israel could have continued and occupied all of Lebanon. Don't act like the cease fire was something Hezbollah forced upon Israel. In fact this always happens. Someone attacks Israel, then there is a cease fire and Israel's enemies restock their weaponry to attack again.


I support Israel because as a Christian I am aware that the Jews are Gods chosen people. And try as they might, scripture states that they will never be driven from their land again. So, If God is for Israel why would I or anyone else be against them?

[heavycola]

Of coarse Israel killed more civilians

Actually Jay i think the ratio of Lebanese civilians killed to Israeli civilians killed was around 10:1
That's what was reported on the BBC. Both sides have been guilty of propaganda - look at the way each is decalring victory - but i don;t think the idea that "every time hizbollah hit a civilian it was evil, but every time Israel hit a civilian it was a mistake" is particularly helpful. It is obviously never that black and white.


Just out of interest, how can Jews be god's chosen people if they have rejected christ?

[cowshrptrn]

jay, u should open ur eyes, the only reason Israel exists is because we stole arab land after WW2 and gave it to them. Israel has been nothing but a mess, even catholic countries like france don't support them.

I find it hypocrtical to write off Israel as innocent and righteous when they intentionally have targeted civilian aid in Lebanon. Its also kind of sketchy to target news organizations, irregardless of how biased they are, if Fox news were to suddenly be shut down for being highly right wing there'd be an uproar, and even if they have called for assassinations its mainly the underground groups who are motivating and are responsible for it. It is jsut as bad as bad mouthing a political candidate using information hats already been spread by his opponent.

There is a reason no one in the middle east likes israek, and its not because the rest of them are godless heathens

[jay_a2j]

Of coarse Israel killed more civilians

Actually Jay i think the ratio of Lebanese civilians killed to Israeli civilians killed was around 10:1
That's what was reported on the BBC. Both sides have been guilty of propaganda - look at the way each is decalring victory - but i don;t think the idea that "every time hizbollah hit a civilian it was evil, but every time Israel hit a civilian it was a mistake" is particularly helpful. It is obviously never that black and white.


Just out of interest, how can Jews be god's chosen people if they have rejected christ?

Jesus was born a Jew. From a long line of Jews. The OT is all about the Jewish people. They indeed rejected him as scripure stated that they would. Which was the reason they were driven from their land and scattered across the globe.

[jay_a2j]

jay, u should open ur eyes, the only reason Israel exists is because we stole arab land after WW2 and gave it to them. Israel has been nothing but a mess, even catholic countries like france don't support them.

I find it hypocrtical to write off Israel as innocent and righteous when they intentionally have targeted civilian aid in Lebanon. Its also kind of sketchy to target news organizations, irregardless of how biased they are, if Fox news were to suddenly be shut down for being highly right wing there'd be an uproar, and even if they have called for assassinations its mainly the underground groups who are motivating and are responsible for it. It is jsut as bad as bad mouthing a political candidate using information hats already been spread by his opponent.

There is a reason no one in the middle east likes israek, and its not because the rest of them are godless heathens

If you read the OT you will see God gave the land of Israel to the Jews (Story of Moses leading them out of Egypt to "the promises land") It was given to the Jews by God himself. Its not Muslim land and was not stolen after WWII. It was theirs to begin with.


No, the reason noone in the Middle East like the Jews is because their God is the true God. Satan don't like Israel... is it any wonder why?

[Machiavelli]

Jay, even though I dont agree with you on some points (I agree with you on this one), I just wanted to let you know that you are one of the best debaters who plays at CC.

[jay_a2j]

Jay, even though I dont agree with you on some points (I agree with you on this one), I just wanted to let you know that you are one of the best debaters who plays at CC.

Thanks Machiavelli, I appreciate that. I just like to debate, its fun and it gets my blood pumping sometimes . There are alot of good debaters here on all sides of every issue.

[gavin_sidhu]

why did the issue of God come into this thread. We are talking about Israels war against Lebanon.

And why do you jay_a2j support Israel, a jewish (religion) state, over lebanon and hezbollah, a country and group that is a mixture of islam and christianity. Alot of lebanese are christians and after the end of the lebanese civil war, hezbollah has let small numbers of christians into their ranks.

[heavycola]

jay, u should open ur eyes, the only reason Israel exists is because we stole arab land after WW2 and gave it to them. Israel has been nothing but a mess, even catholic countries like france don't support them.

I find it hypocrtical to write off Israel as innocent and righteous when they intentionally have targeted civilian aid in Lebanon. Its also kind of sketchy to target news organizations, irregardless of how biased they are, if Fox news were to suddenly be shut down for being highly right wing there'd be an uproar, and even if they have called for assassinations its mainly the underground groups who are motivating and are responsible for it. It is jsut as bad as bad mouthing a political candidate using information hats already been spread by his opponent.

There is a reason no one in the middle east likes israek, and its not because the rest of them are godless heathens

If you read the OT you will see God gave the land of Israel to the Jews (Story of Moses leading them out of Egypt to "the promises land") It was given to the Jews by God himself. Its not Muslim land and was not stolen after WWII. It was theirs to begin with.


No, the reason noone in the Middle East like the Jews is because their God is the true God. Satan don't like Israel... is it any wonder why?

Monotheism - i.e judaism and islam - began with Abraham and his covenant with god. Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but he is a Muslim prophet as well. Arguably muslims and xtians and jews are all worshipping the same god. Even jesus is a prophet in islam.
Muslims would say their god is the god. It's the same god, though, just intepreted and received differently. Hardly satan.

[jay_a2j]

jay, u should open ur eyes, the only reason Israel exists is because we stole arab land after WW2 and gave it to them. Israel has been nothing but a mess, even catholic countries like france don't support them.

I find it hypocrtical to write off Israel as innocent and righteous when they intentionally have targeted civilian aid in Lebanon. Its also kind of sketchy to target news organizations, irregardless of how biased they are, if Fox news were to suddenly be shut down for being highly right wing there'd be an uproar, and even if they have called for assassinations its mainly the underground groups who are motivating and are responsible for it. It is jsut as bad as bad mouthing a political candidate using information hats already been spread by his opponent.

There is a reason no one in the middle east likes israek, and its not because the rest of them are godless heathens

If you read the OT you will see God gave the land of Israel to the Jews (Story of Moses leading them out of Egypt to "the promises land") It was given to the Jews by God himself. Its not Muslim land and was not stolen after WWII. It was theirs to begin with.


No, the reason noone in the Middle East like the Jews is because their God is the true God. Satan don't like Israel... is it any wonder why?

Monotheism - i.e judaism and islam - began with Abraham and his covenant with god. Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but he is a Muslim prophet as well. Arguably muslims and xtians and jews are all worshipping the same god. Even jesus is a prophet in islam.
Muslims would say their god is the god. It's the same god, though, just intepreted and received differently. Hardly satan.

The Muslims do not see Christ as God. Jesus in the muslim eye was nothing more than a prophet...making it a false religion. (not to mention they have their own holy book which contradicts the Bible) The Jews rejected Jesus as messiah and are still waiting for the messiah to appear. (note: in the end days of the tribulation 144,000 Jews will recognize Jesus as the Messiah and be witnesses to the world).

[vtmarik]

Monotheism - i.e judaism and islam - began with Abraham and his covenant with god. Someone correct me if i'm wrong, but he is a Muslim prophet as well. Arguably muslims and xtians and jews are all worshipping the same god. Even jesus is a prophet in islam.
Muslims would say their god is the god. It's the same god, though, just intepreted and received differently. Hardly satan.

Abraham wasn't a prophet of Islam, but his son Ishmael was.

Rather than Issac who was the son of promise for Christianity and Judaism, Ishmael is the one that the Muslims believe was the true son of promise.


What the muslims and jews need to remember is that both Issac and Ishmael eventually came together to bury their father.

[heavycola]

thanks for the correction vtmarik.

My point was that Islam, Judaism and Xtianity have Abraham as their common ancestor. They are collectively termed the Abrahamic religions. Abraham agreed to worship only one god, and in return god promised him desendants as numerous as the stars.

Then - right - Ishmael's descendants became the muslims, Isaac's the jews (and much much later, the christians). But abraham is the father of it all.
My point, jay, is that all three religions worship the same god but according to different traditions. That's all. There are millions of muslims who share your depth of religious belief but who believe Mohamed was the last prophet. Are they satanic? What proves yours is the true religion and not theirs? Remember that for every quote from scripture there is To them, theirs is the one true faith, a belief they can support with as many quotes from their book as you can yours.

[jay_a2j]

What proves yours is the true religion and not theirs? Remember that for every quote from scripture there is To them, theirs is the one true faith, a belief they can support with as many quotes from their book as you can yours.

Jesus said, " I am the way, the truthand the life noone comes to the Father but through me.

It's a faith thing. I am positive that Jesus is who He said He is.

[Caleb the Cruel]

i think people should believe a guy who died and then rose from the dead

[vtmarik]

i think people should believe a guy who died and then rose from the dead

Hell, I would.

"Shit dude, didn't you die?"
"Yeah, but I'm back now, and boy do I have stories!"
"Well hot damn, let's hear 'em!"

[heavycola]

i think people should believe a guy who died and then rose from the dead

John Travolta? Dracula? Wesley the farmboy?

[mightyal]

i think people should believe a guy who died and then rose from the dead

Have you considered boycotting the Social Lounge until it gets renamed?

[Caleb the Cruel]

Have you considered boycotting the Social Lounge until it gets renamed?

considered it? yes.
decision? probably not, but still a possibility

[reverend_kyle]

Have you considered boycotting the Social Lounge until it gets renamed?

considered it? yes.
decision? probably not, but still a possibility

do it.