Conquer Club

Phatscotty wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:That's fine, but none of it shows that the average person is safer for carrying a gun. However, there are plenty of people who believe that is the case.

average law abiding person, absolutely makes it safer

No, it does not. I have detailed many reasons why it does not...you have blatantly ignored all of them. Even respected gun enthusiasts have stated that it does not, but you persist in your willful ignorance.

wrong. For the most part, I blatantly ignore you. As for the "point" you keep reminding us you made in some magical far away candy land that does not exist, I have already said that my experiences are completely the opposite from the opinion that legal gun owners are less safe, which is not ignoring your imaginary point (whatever that is), it flat out destroys it. What am I going to believe Woodruff? My own experiences? Or should I disregard my own experiences and go with what others say? Hmmm that's a tough one let me tell ya.

Phatscotty wrote:wrong. For the most part, I blatantly ignore you.

Yes, you do consistently ignore valid arguments against your positions, that's true.

Phatscotty wrote:As for the "point" you keep reminding us you made in some magical far away candy land that does not exist

You are either thoroughly out of touch with reality or you are stupid.

Phatscotty wrote:I have already said that my experiences are completely the opposite from the opinion that legal gun owners are less safe

You believe that your experiences relate in a significant way to the overarching sum of situations, which is an illogical and untenable position.

Phatscotty wrote:which is not ignoring your imaginary point (whatever that is), it flat out destroys it

It does nothing of the sort, which you admit by stating that you don't even understand what my point is. Note that it wasn't a single point, as I've pointed out to you a couple of times.

Phatscotty wrote:What am I going to believe Woodruff? My own experiences? Or should I disregard my own experiences and go with what others say? Hmmm that's a tough one let me tell ya.

Of course you don't ignore your own experiences. To do so would be just as stupid as to ignore valid arguments against your own positions.

Phatscotty wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:That's fine, but none of it shows that the average person is safer for carrying a gun. However, there are plenty of people who believe that is the case.

average law abiding person, absolutely makes it safer

Look, Phattscotty, when even someone like the head of Red Jacket disagrees with you .. you know you are talking garbage.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:That's fine, but none of it shows that the average person is safer for carrying a gun. However, there are plenty of people who believe that is the case.

average law abiding person, absolutely makes it safer

Look, Phattscotty, when even someone like the head of Red Jacket disagrees with you .. you know you are talking garbage.

Look, Player, if all the security guards and policemen and government workers or your neighbors stopped carrying firearms.......you wouldn't have anyone to run to or call for....."SAFETY"

Phatscotty wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:That's fine, but none of it shows that the average person is safer for carrying a gun. However, there are plenty of people who believe that is the case.

average law abiding person, absolutely makes it safer

Look, Phattscotty, when even someone like the head of Red Jacket disagrees with you .. you know you are talking garbage.

Look, Player, if all the security guards and policemen and government workers or your neighbors stopped carrying firearms.......you wouldn't have anyone to run to or call for....."SAFETY"

Phatscotty's having another Herpaderpgasm.

... Remember that scene in that film.... oh, what the hell was it called? Where the high school kids in Colorado were fighting off a Russian invasion? Red Dawn! Yeah that's it.

... That scene where a Russian soldier pries a pistol from a dead American's hand, in the BG you see a bumber-sticker, "You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers"?

... That was funny.

...

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:That's fine, but none of it shows that the average person is safer for carrying a gun. However, there are plenty of people who believe that is the case.

average law abiding person, absolutely makes it safer

Look, Phattscotty, when even someone like the head of Red Jacket disagrees with you .. you know you are talking garbage.

First: You're a wierdo.

Second: Does Will Hayden carry a gun?

Nobunaga wrote:... Remember that scene in that film.... oh, what the hell was it called? Where the high school kids in Colorado were fighting off a Russian invasion? Red Dawn! Yeah that's it.

... That scene where a Russian soldier pries a pistol from a dead American's hand, in the BG you see a bumber-sticker, "You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers"?

... That was funny.
...

We just watched that movie a few days ago...my wife had never heard of it, but she LOVES Patrick Swayze.

Woodruff wrote:

Nobunaga wrote:... Remember that scene in that film.... oh, what the hell was it called? Where the high school kids in Colorado were fighting off a Russian invasion? Red Dawn! Yeah that's it.

... That scene where a Russian soldier pries a pistol from a dead American's hand, in the BG you see a bumber-sticker, "You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers"?

... That was funny.
...

We just watched that movie a few days ago...my wife had never heard of it, but she LOVES Patrick Swayze.

Doesn't that film just ooze with unrealistic nationalism patriotism?

Phatscotty wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:That's fine, but none of it shows that the average person is safer for carrying a gun. However, there are plenty of people who believe that is the case.

average law abiding person, absolutely makes it safer

Look, Phattscotty, when even someone like the head of Red Jacket disagrees with you .. you know you are talking garbage.

Look, Player, if all the security guards and policemen and government workers or your neighbors stopped carrying firearms.......you wouldn't have anyone to run to or call for....."SAFETY"

I see, so you think your average citizen is a trained police officer or security gaurd.

That does say a lot....

PS, stop trying to pretend I am "anti-gun".

BigBallinStalin wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

Nobunaga wrote:... Remember that scene in that film.... oh, what the hell was it called? Where the high school kids in Colorado were fighting off a Russian invasion? Red Dawn! Yeah that's it.

... That scene where a Russian soldier pries a pistol from a dead American's hand, in the BG you see a bumber-sticker, "You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers"?

... That was funny.
...

We just watched that movie a few days ago...my wife had never heard of it, but she LOVES Patrick Swayze.

Doesn't that film just ooze with unrealistic nationalism patriotism?

No, not really in my opinion. It oozes with plenty of stupid stuff...but given the circumstances of being invaded, I don't see it as particularly unrealistic in the nationalistic/patriotistic aspect at all.

Woodruff wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:

Woodruff wrote:

Nobunaga wrote:... Remember that scene in that film.... oh, what the hell was it called? Where the high school kids in Colorado were fighting off a Russian invasion? Red Dawn! Yeah that's it.

... That scene where a Russian soldier pries a pistol from a dead American's hand, in the BG you see a bumber-sticker, "You can have my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers"?

... That was funny.
...

We just watched that movie a few days ago...my wife had never heard of it, but she LOVES Patrick Swayze.

Doesn't that film just ooze with unrealistic nationalism patriotism?

No, not really in my opinion. It oozes with plenty of stupid stuff...but given the circumstances of being invaded, I don't see it as particularly unrealistic in the nationalistic/patriotistic aspect at all.

... It's an eighties film ... times were different then.

...

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:That's fine, but none of it shows that the average person is safer for carrying a gun. However, there are plenty of people who believe that is the case.

average law abiding person, absolutely makes it safer

Look, Phattscotty, when even someone like the head of Red Jacket disagrees with you .. you know you are talking garbage.

Look, Player, if all the security guards and policemen and government workers or your neighbors stopped carrying firearms.......you wouldn't have anyone to run to or call for....."SAFETY"

I see, so you think your average citizen is a trained police officer or security gaurd.

That does say a lot....

PS, stop trying to pretend I am "anti-gun".

that isn't what I said, or meant, at all. Not even close. In fact, WTF?

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:
Look, Phattscotty, when even someone like the head of Red Jacket disagrees with you .. you know you are talking garbage.

Look, Player, if all the security guards and policemen and government workers or your neighbors stopped carrying firearms.......you wouldn't have anyone to run to or call for....."SAFETY"

I see, so you think your average citizen is a trained police officer or security gaurd.

That does say a lot....

PS, stop trying to pretend I am "anti-gun".

that isn't what I said, or meant, at all. Not even close. In fact, WTF?

lol.... Here is my post that began it all: (cut becuase one cannot imbed 6 quotes):

PLAYER57832 wrote:That's fine, but none of it shows that the average person is safer for carrying a gun. However, there are plenty of people who believe that is the case.

to which, you responded (also cut):

Phatscotty wrote:average law abiding person, absolutely makes it safer

followed by all of the above...

So, yes, that is EXACTLY what you said, in claiming that my comment about average citizens means that police officers cannot have guns... not to mention your insistance on labeling me as "anti-gun".



PS my neighbors, all ladies over 85, do not carry guns... yet, strangely, I feel quite safe!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14996768
He shoulda had a gun, so he could kilt 'em bastards!

Just started reading this thread.

saxitoxin wrote:The UK has a very serious problem with knife crime. If knives were banned I'm certain the UK would have a serious problem with stick crime. It happens that sticks aren't as lethal as knives, nor knives as lethal as guns.

I beg to differ. fact is a medium sized knife blade can be much more deadly than a small caliber fire arm. Knives can cause more bleeding, and separate more tissue. Fact is, though, you don't want to be in either situation.

apart from that, there is not much else to comment on. a lot of reiteration of the same arguments, and the Europeans continuing to try to tell the Americans what's what as if their counties are more civilized (We don't riot over soccer matches here, just sayin')

Mr_Adams wrote:Just started reading this thread.

saxitoxin wrote:The UK has a very serious problem with knife crime. If knives were banned I'm certain the UK would have a serious problem with stick crime. It happens that sticks aren't as lethal as knives, nor knives as lethal as guns.

I beg to differ. fact is a medium sized knife blade can be much more deadly than a small caliber fire arm. Knives can cause more bleeding, and separate more tissue. Fact is, though, you don't want to be in either situation.

apart from that, there is not much else to comment on. a lot of reiteration of the same arguments, and the Europeans continuing to try to tell the Americans what's what as if their counties are more civilized (We don't riot over soccer matches here, just sayin')

Kind of the difference being that the UK recognises it has a problem with knife crime and is trying to deal with it. The US has a bit of a blind spot when it comes to the culture of owning guns and how that relates to a murder rate roughly four times greater than that of the UK, and considerably higher than other nations that own guns on a similar level. I realise that this thread has become more about the politics and rights of gun ownership, but that in itself is kind of telling.

I still think it's an issue of the actual culture of gun ownership that is the issue. What owning a gun represents. How it's talked about.

There are several European countries that have similar rates of gun ownership to the US, but simply don't have the same problems with crime. Clearly the difference is cultural.

Symmetry wrote:

Mr_Adams wrote:Just started reading this thread.

saxitoxin wrote:The UK has a very serious problem with knife crime. If knives were banned I'm certain the UK would have a serious problem with stick crime. It happens that sticks aren't as lethal as knives, nor knives as lethal as guns.

I beg to differ. fact is a medium sized knife blade can be much more deadly than a small caliber fire arm. Knives can cause more bleeding, and separate more tissue. Fact is, though, you don't want to be in either situation.

apart from that, there is not much else to comment on. a lot of reiteration of the same arguments, and the Europeans continuing to try to tell the Americans what's what as if their counties are more civilized (We don't riot over soccer matches here, just sayin')

Kind of the difference being that the UK recognises it has a problem with knife crime and is trying to deal with it. The US has a bit of a blind spot when it comes to the culture of owning guns and how that relates to a murder rate roughly four times greater than that of the UK, and considerably higher than other nations that own guns on a similar level. I realise that this thread has become more about the politics and rights of gun ownership, but that in itself is kind of telling.

I still think it's an issue of the actual culture of gun ownership that is the issue. What owning a gun represents. How it's talked about.

There are several European countries that have similar rates of gun ownership to the US, but simply don't have the same problems with crime. Clearly the difference is cultural.

C'mon, Symmetry, you brits will never understand the aroma of our freedoms. Not everyone can tell the difference between the burnt aroma of black powder v. white powder, but here in Uhmerica, we can--because we're free.

im strongly support american gun culture, as long as you use weapons against each other in their disagreements, But when America begins to cross the border and use the weapons against other nations that I do not support.
You have freedom,and you can do what you like in your country with your guns. If you want to defend properties,fine,if you want to kill neigbour,again fine, if you want to hunt, fine, if you want to hold weapon like souvenire,again fine, but keep those weapon in us.

qwert wrote:im strongly support american gun culture, as long as you use weapons against each other in their disagreements, But when America begins to cross the border and use the weapons against other nations that I do not support.
You have freedom,and you can do what you like in your country with your guns. If you want to defend properties,fine,if you want to kill neigbour,again fine, if you want to hunt, fine, if you want to hold weapon like souvenire,again fine, but keep those weapon in us.

Well, that won't happen. The big gun owning states are all down south close the Mexican border.

More than 70% of 29,284 firearms submitted to the U.S. Department of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives for tracing by the Mexican government during 2009 and 2010 originated in the United States, according to the report.

CNN

There's a lot of money to be made by arming drug dealers and opposing regulation that might control who you sell guns to.

Symmetry wrote:

Mr_Adams wrote:Just started reading this thread.

saxitoxin wrote:The UK has a very serious problem with knife crime. If knives were banned I'm certain the UK would have a serious problem with stick crime. It happens that sticks aren't as lethal as knives, nor knives as lethal as guns.

I beg to differ. fact is a medium sized knife blade can be much more deadly than a small caliber fire arm. Knives can cause more bleeding, and separate more tissue. Fact is, though, you don't want to be in either situation.

apart from that, there is not much else to comment on. a lot of reiteration of the same arguments, and the Europeans continuing to try to tell the Americans what's what as if their counties are more civilized (We don't riot over soccer matches here, just sayin')

Kind of the difference being that the UK recognises it has a problem with knife crime and is trying to deal with it.

I think Jack Straw's edict that people use spoons to cut their steaks is really what lost Gordon Brown the last election.

Maybe I'm taking a simplistic view, though.

I didn't read any of the responses, only th eoriginal post. Your thoery has been thoerized many times before. A ton of research and theories and whatever else mention the American Gun Culture. Even dingleberry Michael Moore addressed it in "Bowling for Columbine" for a bit I believe.

I bet you that my theory will out-theorize your theory, in theory.

Mr_Adams wrote:Just started reading this thread.

saxitoxin wrote:The UK has a very serious problem with knife crime. If knives were banned I'm certain the UK would have a serious problem with stick crime. It happens that sticks aren't as lethal as knives, nor knives as lethal as guns.

I beg to differ. fact is a medium sized knife blade can be much more deadly than a small caliber fire arm. Knives can cause more bleeding, and separate more tissue. Fact is, though, you don't want to be in either situation.

apart from that, there is not much else to comment on. a lot of reiteration of the same arguments, and the Europeans continuing to try to tell the Americans what's what as if their counties are more civilized (We don't riot over soccer matches here, just sayin')

knife wounds are much more painful as well