Baltic Crusades

[Industrial Helix]

1) Ah ok, i see now. Yeah, there is a way to do this with XML. I did it with the German/Italian Unification maps.

2) I mean the route to Gotland is fine as it is. No new routes.

As for the trees... start looking for new ones cause the clipart trees just won't cut it. I'd suggest some sort of art depicting forest, rather than a line of trees. But that's graphics... you need to get this out of gameplay first.

[theBastard]

I can not find forest/trees which I like. but I saw forests in your Gaul map, could I use them for Baltic Cruseades map?

I think that GP (except starting positions) is at the end now. I will post map with starting positions and than it will needs any balancing which ones will be neutral. my idea is that each of 8 players will start with one castle (Teutonic or Polish-Lithuanian stronghold)/one Hanseatic town (Visby will be neutral) and one town (marked with christian or pagan icon)...

Helix, could you be written on the map as map maker with me? I will be happy if you could

[Industrial Helix]

I'll definitely help you out but I dunno if I need any more responsibility than I already have. As for the trees in Gaul, I'll send them to you somehow.

[theBastard]

here is my idea for starting points. all not marked areas could be neutral - the number of armies there could be set up by GP. I think that "land territories" could not be as starting points for players because players will have not standard deploy armies.

Helix, I wait for my girl, she will create acount at MSN, then I will send to you my name...
[bigimg]http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/4981/balticcrusadesmap6.jpg[/bigimg]

[ender516]

Perhaps confusion with the legend could be avoided if it read something like this, for example:

Livonian Confederation +2 (total +7)
Sword Brethren +3 Terra Mariana +2

Grand Duchy of Lithuania +2 (total +6)
Duchy of Lithuania +3 Duchy of Samogiria +1


and so on...

I think there is room in every case except perhaps the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. If you had to drop anything for reasons of space, drop the incremental bonus and keep the "Total +??" in each case. World 2.1 does something like this with its legend.

[theBastard]

is this good?
[bigimg]http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/4981/balticcrusadesmap6.jpg[/bigimg]

[natty dread]

The problem with these starting positions is, that some are castles while some are towns... so some players will start with +3 autodeploy while some start with +2.

[theBastard]

The problem with these starting positions is, that some are castles while some are towns... so some players will start with +3 autodeploy while some start with +2.

no, each player have one castle, one Hansa town and one town, so everybody have the same armies...

[natty dread]

So do the territories with same colour army numbers belong to the same starting point?

[theBastard]

yes. each player will have three starting points. if this is possible...

[natty dread]

You can code each starting point as 3 territories, so that each starting point will have a castle, a city and a town. But then each starting point will always have the same castle,city & town - in other words those castles,cities & towns will be linked to each other, and they can't be mixed up.

[theBastard]

You can code each starting point as 3 territories, so that each starting point will have a castle, a city and a town. But then each starting point will always have the same castle,city & town - in other words those castles,cities & towns will be linked to each other, and they can't be mixed up.

wait, wait I do not exactly understand. is possible to code as I set up starting points or not? many maps have starting points that each player has several territories in another contitnets and some territories are neutral from start. sorry if I´m wrong/or I did wrong understand you...

[natty dread]

Well, let me try to explain it to you with a simple example.

Let's say you have castle1, city1 and town1. Then you have castle2, city2 and town2. Now you want to set up starting points for 2 players so that each gets one castle, one city and one town. You can do this by coding two starting points:

Starting point 1: castle1, city1, town1
Starting point 2: castle2, city2, town2

Then each of the two players would either get starting point 1 or starting point 2.

But you cannot set it up so that each player would get any random combinations of them, so that it would be different every time. This means that the players cannot get, for example:

castle1, city2, town1
castle2, city1, town2

So the starting points won't get mixed, they will always be the same sets of only 1:s or only 2:s.

I'm sorry, I can't explain it any better...

[theBastard]

thanks, now I understand. I can not see any problem here. or is there any? I think we can set up the starting points for every types of GP...

[natty dread]

No, I don't think it's a problem, just thought to let you know so you'll know how it's going to be...

[ender516]

It shouldn't be a problem, provided the sets of 3 are chosen carefully for initial balance.

[theBastard]

thanks guys. I think that it will be not so hard to set up these sets of 3 fair.

here I post possible names of territories:

Rugen, Venland, West Pomerania, Stettin city, East Pomerania, Stargard town, Neumark, Landsberg castle, Greater Poland, Poznan town, Kuyavia, Gniezno castle, Sieradz, Leczyca, Plock town, Mazovia, Kulmerland, Thorn city, Pomerelia, Schlochau town, Bishropic of Cammin, Kolberg castle, Danzig city, Marienburg castle, Pomesania, Ermland, Prussia, Grunwald castle, Galindia, Grodno town, Sudovia, Nadruvia, Ragnit castle, Samland, Konigsberg city, Scalovia, Memelburg castle, Carsovie, Dainava, Trakai castle, Vilnius town, Aukstatija, Kernave town, Samogitia, Saule town, Courland, Mitau castle, Bishopric of Courland, Windau city, Zemgale, Selija, Dunaburg castle, Latgale, Ludsen town, Archbishopric of Riga, Riga city, Vidzeme, Wenden castle, Livonia, Bishopric of Dorpat, Dorpat city, Sakala, Fellin town, Wiek, Harria, Reval, Vironie, Narva, Ingria, Ruthenia, Pskov town, Osel, Dago, Gotland, Visby city, Bornholm

I used latinized names or names used by German orders. I spoke with Commander if we go with original names (Lithuanian, Estonian, Polish) but I think latinized/german names give to map more unification and medieval soul...

EDIT: so now to change trees and do several possibilities of starting positions. or anything else?

EDIT2: I changed a little starting points. I changed "Hanseatic town" to "Hanseatic city" in legend. I also chenged trees, so Helix what do you think?
[bigimg]http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/1793/balticcrusadesmap7.jpg[/bigimg]

[Industrial Helix]

Those trees look a little too see through. Add perhaps a 2 ox stroke or drop shadow or something?

The number one thing I want to see on this map right now are numbers. They don't have to be the CC digits or anything, just numbers. I want to know what the map is going to look like when I start a game at Round 1.

[theBastard]

o.k. forgot trees now.
here is map with army numbers. maybe Visby has too big.
[bigimg]http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/1793/balticcrusadesmap7.jpg[/bigimg]

[theBastard]

what about to do "neutral" territories Decay?

[theBastard]

I made decision, that I will not longer work on this map.
I did all things which were adviced, changed colours, text, bonuses, post map with numbers of amies at the start and I see that there is no interest of this map. here is link to RAR version with all layers, so if anybody in the future wants to continue on it the Baltic Crusades map and idea is free.

http://www.2shared.com/file/EA3UXAES/BA ... _MAP7.html

thanks to Industrial Helix for big help all time and to some few guys for their interest.

[natty dread]

Don't be so impatient, man. Biggest requirement for mapmaking is patience. All the people who come here to comment on maps do it on their own time, they don't work here... it's summer, people most likely have better things to do than comment on maps. If you don't get the feedback you want, just keep working, it'll come eventually.

What I'm saying is don't give up. You have plenty of support for this map to move forward with it.

[theBastard]

thanks for your support natty,

but it is not (only) about impatience. I work on this map half a year, I learned everything from base (thanks god for so good teacher as was Helix), but I do not want spent years with working on this (or another) map.
I know that my map was not so complet as some others, but in this foundry were several maps which came later and were moved faster. and several maps had more support, more advices and interest. it is no problem for me, I´m not offended, sometimes things not goes as we want

also I have summer, also I have personal life, therefore I will not work next half (?) year on any map.

[natty dread]

I think I told you when you started, that it would be a long project. There are maps that have been in development for over a year.

The more complex a map, the longer the development takes. The maps that have moved faster are simpler maps, where one doesn't have to work on the gameplay too long.

Well anyway, it's your choice of course. Nobody is forcing you to do something you don't want to. Have a good summer either way

[theBastard]

Have a good summer either way

thanks . nice summer to you too, in cold Scandinavia